CFI Renewal

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George Chityat

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george99
I have a CFI/MEI/I in the airplane.
I am now working on my Commercial for Helicoper.
Will passing the commercial practical test in the helicopter renew my Airplane CFI?
 
My CFI is NOT expired. I have been renewing it every 2 years with the online Jepp/AOPA course. I want to prevent it from expiring. So I was wondering if a checkride for the helicopter can be used in lieu of the online course.
 
A commercial ride won't do it. It would have to be an additional instructor rating.
 
The way I read that is they are referring to a practical exam for an instructor rating which would be correct. Typically it would be for a current CFI adding a rating, or for an expired CFI reinstating a rating. Although ridiculous, a current CFI could take a ride for a rating for a rating they already have to renew, but why risk a failure.
 
Well, the second example says take a checkride for a CFI rating. The first one just says checkride. Anyway, it's easy enough to just to the AOPA/Jepp online course. Thanks for the tips.
 
George Chityat said:
Well, the second example says take a checkride for a CFI rating. The first one just says checkride. Anyway, it's easy enough to just to the AOPA/Jepp online course. Thanks for the tips.
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You need to read the second sentence of that first item. It is correct.

But why not just go to 61.197? It's pretty clear right there, and that is the official source.
 
Teaching <> flying. The emphasis of a FIRC is to make sure you can teach (they assume if you're legal to act as PIC you can fly).
 
Dave Theisen said:
True, but you never know when you are going to run into a DPE or an Inspector who has an agenda.
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If you're active in an aviation community, it should pretty obvious if there's an inspector or DPE with an agenda.

Over the course of 80-some checkrides, I've run across some general incompetence, but never an inspector or DPE with an agenda.
 
Dave Theisen said:
And really, if you chose a checkride over an online FIRC, you should fail on judgement. :)
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Depends whether you want to get something out of it rather than just checking the box.

Also depends whether 16 hours of your time is worth anything.:rolleyes:
 
MauleSkinner said:
Depends whether you want to get something out of it rather than just checking the box.

Also depends whether 16 hours of your time is worth anything.:rolleyes:
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I'm not sure of your point. I have had checkrides where I have learned something, and others were it was just a formality. I've also done FIRCs that where ridiculous, but others that where very informative.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I'm not sure of your point. I have had checkrides where I have learned something, and others were it was just a formality. I've also done FIRCs that where ridiculous, but others that where very informative.
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If you want to learn something, do the one that will result in learning. If you want to check the box, do the one that will check the box.
 
George Chityat said:
Yeah, that's what I thought. But I read here that it does work. I guess they just aren't clear about it.
http://cfiacademy.com/informationcfi-mentoring10-ways-renew-cfi/
Look at the first method.
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If you read the entire paragraph in the first method it is very clear that it has to be a CFI checkride.
"
  1. Take a practical test (checkride) – This method is usually used by someone whose CFI has already expired, but in any case, this method is still an available option to renew unexpired CFI certificate as well. Once a CFI certificate expires, you must pass a checkride for any one rating (CFI, CFII or MEI) on the CFI certificate and renew the certificate with all the rest of the ratings as well.
 
if you look in the examiners handbook there is no requirement as to what they have to do on a renewal. my first renewal was with a DPE i used that had a T-28. he said come on over to my airport and bring you credit card for gas. we did one lap in the pattern in the PA-28, an then went out and did aerobatics in the T-28. great renewal.
bob
 
unsafervguy said:
if you look in the examiners handbook there is no requirement as to what they have to do on a renewal. my first renewal was with a DPE i used that had a T-28. he said come on over to my airport and bring you credit card for gas. we did one lap in the pattern in the PA-28, an then went out and did aerobatics in the T-28. great renewal.
bob
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Maybe not in the DPE handbook, but there certainly is in the instructors PTSes. The Airplane Single-Engine version, for example, is on page 22 of the CFI PTS and is formatted just like the Additional Rating Task Table, showing which Areas and which Tasks are required to be performed for a renewal or reinstatement. There is a similar one for MEI and CFII. I'm not sure at what point they were added in there (and you don't say when your renewal ride was), but the CFII PTS on the FAA website is dated 2010, so at least that long.

For example, for a CFI-ASE renewal, it requires at least one task from each area except Area I (none), Area II (B, M, and one other task), Area VII (2 takeoffs and landings), and Area XI (2 tasks from there).
 
RussR said:
Maybe not in the DPE handbook, but there certainly is in the instructors PTSes. The Airplane Single-Engine version, for example, is on page 22 of the CFI PTS and is formatted just like the Additional Rating Task Table, showing which Areas and which Tasks are required to be performed for a renewal or reinstatement. There is a similar one for MEI and CFII. I'm not sure at what point they were added in there (and you don't say when your renewal ride was), but the CFII PTS on the FAA website is dated 2010, so at least that long.

yes it was looong before 2010, and even with the table the DPE has a lot of leeway as to how he covers those areas. as long as he/she covers each box and satisfied that the examine meets the requirements they have done there job properly. the CFI is about how to teach, not how to fly, most of a CFI ride in my option should be judged in the briefing room, not the airplane. in all honesty, in my option, for most of a CFI ride the examine should not even be flying, but i don't make the rules.

bob
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Wheels said:
If you read the entire paragraph in the first method it is very clear that it has to be a CFI checkride.
"
  1. Take a practical test (checkride) – This method is usually used by someone whose CFI has already expired, but in any case, this method is still an available option to renew unexpired CFI certificate as well. Once a CFI certificate expires, you must pass a checkride for any one rating (CFI, CFII or MEI) on the CFI certificate and renew the certificate with all the rest of the ratings as well.
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Wheels, how is it clear. It doesn't say that at all.
I'm not disputing the correct answer, but just curious as to how you are reading this and calling it clear. It just says "checkride". My CFI has NOT expired.
 
George Chityat said:
Wheels, how is it clear. It doesn't say that at all.
I'm not disputing the correct answer, but just curious as to how you are reading this and calling it clear. It just says "checkride". My CFI has NOT expired.
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How about reading the actual reg...
(a) A person who holds a flight instructor certificate that has not expired may renew that flight instructor certificate by—

(1) Passing a practical test for—

(i) One of the ratings listed on the current flight instructor certificate; or

(ii) An additional flight instructor rating;
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George Chityat said:
Wheels, how is it clear. It doesn't say that at all.
I'm not disputing the correct answer, but just curious as to how you are reading this and calling it clear. It just says "checkride". My CFI has NOT expired.
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You gotta love regulatory discussions that don't bother discuss the regulation :) Especially by CFIs who are supposed to be explaining the regulations to their students.

If your CFI certificate has not yet expired, it's 61.197, which @MauleSkinner quoted in part. In addition to the other methods of renewing (performance, FIRC], it says (all I'm doing is removing the outlining and some language not essential to its meaning; otherwise the language is a direct quote):

A person who holds a flight instructor certificate that has not expired may renew that flight instructor certificate by passing a practical test for one of the ratings listed on the current flight instructor certificate or an additional flight instructor rating.​

OTOH, if your CFI certificate has expired, it's 61.199:

The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may reinstate that flight instructor certificate and ratings by satisfactorily completing a flight instructor practical test for one of the ratings held on the expired flight instructor certificate or a flight instructor practical test for an additional rating.​

Are either of those really that difficult to understand? Do either of them say in any remote way you can renew or reinstate with some practical test other than for a CFI rating?
 
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