CFI Initial...almost made it

dell30rb said:
And yes I do believe that you could take the checkride in one. I was told by two DPE's that I could do the commercial ride in a cub if I wanted to.
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Most of it, yes, but the takeoffs and landings tasks require a complex airplane unless you've already demonstrated Commercial proficiency doing takeoffs and landings in a complex airplane at the same level (e.g., you got your initial CP with an AMEL rating in a complex twin, and are not just adding an ASEL rating which at that point may be done in a Cub).

FWIW, the AFS-800 is still trying to eliminate that requirement, but failed in their first try largely due to the opposition of ALPA (in my opinion, a totally unreasonable opposition), and it will take a while to overcome that.
 
jesse said:
I see it fairly often - but that's mostly because the examiner likes to talk and bull****.
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I'm not saying it won't take three hours from walking in the door until walking out to the plane for the flight portion, but a lot of that is taken up with administrative issues, eligibility checks, logbook/application review, briefing the test rules, getting to know the applicant (helps relax the applicant), etc, which are done before the test officially begis -- those can easily take an hour all by themselves. However, I've rarely seen the oral discussion in the ground portion of a PP-A practical test take more than 1:30 from "the test begins now" to "OK, let's go fly."
 
Ron Levy said:
FWIW, the AFS-800 is still trying to eliminate that requirement, but failed in their first try largely due to the opposition of ALPA (in my opinion, a totally unreasonable opposition), and it will take a while to overcome that.
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Yeah, no kidding. I really don't see the rationale behind ALPA's position.
 
Z06_Mir said:
But on the bright side, I heard the examiner I'm using hates stalls so I can recover at first sign (horn) and is too lazy to go through all the airplane logs.
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No, not bright at all. It's depressing that you are afraid of stalls, and you have found an examiner who is also afraid of stalls, so you can pass on the fears to future generations.

I mean, like you're actually bragging on it.
 
I used two aircraft for my CFI checkride, though it wasn't by choice.

During my oral, the 172RG we were planning to use broke. So the FSDO inspector gave me the option of either continuing the checkride in a 172 and coming back when the RG was fixed to do takeoffs and landings, or just come back and do the whole flight when the RG was fixed. Well, I was there already, and stood to lose nothing, so I chose to proceed with the checkride. Besides, I figured, if I couldn't fly a 172 within PTS standards without a bunch of practice, I wasn't really ready to be a CFI anyway.

We did most of the maneuvers in the 172, he issued me a letter of discontinuance, and we called it a day.

Later that day, the FBO called me and said that the RG was fixed. So I called the inspector and he was willing to come back to the airport and finish up, so we did some takeoffs and landings and I passed.

Not ideal, but it worked.
 
dmspilot said:
I did the comm in a PA28R-180 and the CFI in the 172RG. I don't see how 8s on pylons are harder in a low-wing.
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You are supposed to go only 3-5 seconds level between the pylons. Hard to know exactly when to roll on a pylon when you can't see it under the wing.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Yeah, no kidding. I really don't see the rationale behind ALPA's position.
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I never figured out how they could say with a straight face that if people could get their CP without complex training/testing, Part 121 airliners would start landing gear up, but that was their argument. Maybe they're planning to start hiring folks with 250 hours and an ink-wet CP ticket? Not even that EAL Captain with only a PP ticket ever landed gear up, and those two numb-skulls who landed the DC-9 gear-up in Houston were highly experienced in complex airplanes, and they did have the gear handle down (just had the hydraulic power to the gear turned off, and you ain't gonna learn about that in an Arrow).
 
dell30rb said:
You are supposed to go only 3-5 seconds level between the pylons. Hard to know exactly when to roll on a pylon when you can't see it under the wing.
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It's called "situational awareness" -- and maybe DR. Maybe both. Neither should be a problem for someone at the CP level or higher. Either way, the examiner's guess on where the pylon is when the wing is hiding it is no better than the applicant's. :wink2:
 
ScottK said:
Congrats on the getting through the oral, but why such a long wait to clean up one maneuver?
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Meant to say within 60 days. Gotta get a paycheck before I can fly and clean it up a bit. Yeah I was hoping my perfect explanation would have accounted for something but outside PTS is out of standard.
 
Also, yes it was 130 ft high. I pulled the nose high a few degrees on the second 180 and the let the bank get to about 40 degrees as I sliced through the horizon. This meant I was slightly to high to begin with and then came around the turn too quickly to bleed the altitude off. Had I let the altitude get down enough my speed would have then been too high. PTS is the PTS so I understand. This DPE is not trying to wield some power stick. He is very nice but thurough. Just going by the book. I will clean it up shortly and be done with it soon enough.

It's only money
 
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
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You have a very negative attitude. Believe it or not, some people instruct because they love teaching and love flying. Has nothing to do with an ego or building time. My first instructor came back from the airlines to teach full time because he liked instructing. My other instructors were other engineers I knew who taught on the side for fun, without personal pay.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
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Maybe that's why you did it, but there are a lot of us who just enjoy teaching and find it rewarding to see someone learn to do something they didn't know how to do before. See Maslow's work on human motivation, especially the part about self-actualization.
 
Ron Levy said:
Maybe that's why you did it, but there are a lot of us who just enjoy teaching and find it rewarding to see someone learn to do something they didn't know how to do before. See Maslow's work on human motivation, especially the part about self-actualization.
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:yes:
 
nosehair said:
No, not bright at all. It's depressing that you are afraid of stalls, and you have found an examiner who is also afraid of stalls, so you can pass on the fears to future generations.

I mean, like you're actually bragging on it.
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I don't mind stalls at all actually. I enjoy accelerated stalls the most and power on the least but I'm certainly not afraid of them. I'd rather do all stalls instead of an eight on pylon, I'd certainly have a better chance of passing anyway. I'm just saying my examiner doesn't particularly like stalls, which likely means ill do few of them and will recover at the first sign for him. In reality they should never progress beyond that anyway.
ClimbnSink said:
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
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No. I don't need to build time and I don't have a tiny ego. I want to teach others this beautiful thing I get to do; flying. I can't wait to share something I enjoy so much with others and I hope I'm sort of good at it.
 
ClimbnSink said:
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
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What about those who simply enjoy helping others learn something fun. I have no way to measure the size of my ego except that it hasn't gotten me in trouble AFaIK (at least not lately). And given that I'm too old to be considered for any flying job where dual given hours would be of any value I don't have that motivation either. The main reason I haven't pursued a CFI ticket is the liability combined with the expectation that enough insurance to cover my family's assets would cost more than I could possibly earn as a part time CFI.
 
Did mine in a 182rg. 3 hrs ground, 1.5 in flight. Passed the first time. MKE FSDO
 
CaptLabrador, do the Comatose 8. Vertical profile is only 400 feet. There is nothing in 8083-3 that specifies the vertical profile. Things happen slowly and you can stay ahead of them. Then you will be able to bring almost anything into profile.

On my ride, the inspector grumbled, gave it to me, then showed me a pretty aggressive one. I noted to him, that he busted.
 
gismo said:
What about those who simply enjoy helping others learn something fun. I have no way to measure the size of my ego except that it hasn't gotten me in trouble AFaIK (at least not lately). And given that I'm too old to be considered for any flying job where dual given hours would be of any value I don't have that motivation either. The main reason I haven't pursued a CFI ticket is the liability combined with the expectation that enough insurance to cover my family's assets would cost more than I could possibly earn as a part time CFI.
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I'm going to be upside down on my CFI insurance this year I'm guessing. Still worth it.
 
I have had over 40 in-flight check rides from the FAA, so this is coming from a fairly large experience pool.

That FAA inspector didn't pink slip you for 130 ft error. He pinked you for an overall marginal performance. He just had to pick one thing out of the book to actually nail you. If you had performed with confidence and accuracy, he would have let the 130' slide, written off as turbulence or something.

You should go out several more times with your instructor and work on overall performance. Good luck, you will prevail. Stand tall and appear confident.
 
Hate is such a great marker for truth. We give money to bums to feed our ego, not to help others. Non-time building instructing is the same.
 
kgruber said:
That FAA inspector didn't pink slip you for 130 ft error. He pinked you for an overall marginal performance. He just had to pick one thing out of the book to actually nail you. If you had performed with confidence and accuracy, he would have let the 130' slide, written off as turbulence or something.
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I remember specifically that the examiner for my commercial checkride said that there were a few things he could fail me for, and one was 'consistently exceeding tolerances'. He made sure I understood what that meant.

In all of my checkrides I can remember at least one or two things that I flubbed up on each but the examiner let slide because my overall performance was good. No one is perfect and these examiners and inspectors have all seen excellent pilots make minor mistakes.

Didn't know if it was the same way with the CFI ride. The CFI initial does have the reputation of being the least forgiving.
 
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Check all of his posts for consistency. He hasn't been right yet.

ja_user said:
Sure is good that you have the whole world figured out. Let us in on some more of your wisdom.
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jesse said:
I see it fairly often - but that's mostly because the examiner likes to talk and bull****.
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Agreed. My PPL check ride took place at Rowan County airport in North Carolina, his home base. The oral went about 3 hours, but at least an hour of it was spent talking about and showing me his homemade turkey calls. I think he was trying to get me to relax, and it worked.
 
dell30rb said:
I remember specifically that the examiner for my commercial checkride said that there were a few things he could fail me for, and one was 'consistently exceeding tolerances'. He made sure I understood what that meant.

In all of my checkrides I can remember at least one or two things that I flubbed up on each but the examiner let slide because my overall performance was good. No one is perfect and these examiners and inspectors have all seen excellent pilots make minor mistakes.

Didn't know if it was the same way with the CFI ride. The CFI initial does have the reputation of being the least forgiving.
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You can bust limits all day so long as you can teach your way back to the limits. Something else has happened here....
 
30' -130'? You're supposed to be a teacher. Try, "I'll show you how to read the altimeter while we do another one."
 
ClimbnSink said:
People instruct because they have tiny egos and need validation or they need the time. One is excusable.
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You forgot the ones with big egos.
And those who just WANT the time.
And you forgot about my personal fav that worked out quite well, the chicks and the money.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Hey, I know one CFI who married one of his former students.
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You talkin' 'bout me? We had to be bloody sure Fran passed the practical test the weekend before the wedding (can't teach your wife to fly, and all that).
 
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