Causes of gear ups

Topper

Topper

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Topper
Ok, I know the obvious, mechanical issues or the pilot forgot to extend. I don't have tons of retract time. If I am in the pattern, gear comes down at the same place. When cross country, seems like I am always trying to get slowed down to gear speed and once I am there, gear comes down.

Started wondering if more gear ups happen after flying the pattern or after a cross county (I guess by cross country I am assuming the flight has some length and you are doing a straight in or maybe starting on a base vs full pattern)

Maybe it makes no difference?

Thanks,

Jim
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Having the plane for sale for 2+ years with no buyers is one as well.

I check the gear light no fewer than 5 times on every landing. I'm sure at some point I will get distracted and only check it 4 times, but I check when the gear is lowered, when flap notch 1 is done, when flap notch 2 is done, when flap notch 3 is done, on short final (200ish AGL), and just as I pull the last bit of power before I cross the threshold. I find it very hard to believe I would forget to check it at all 6 points during the landing process.
 
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Re: Causes if gear ups

Distraction, failure to follow a check list.

I forget my GUMPSS check enough that I won't fly a retract by myself.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I'd like to say there's a guaranteed, no miss, absolute answer, but of course that would be a lie. The only time I came remotely close was after a long segment. I was landing at Big Bear CA, and it was a nice sat afternoon. There were a fair number of planes around, and I was coming from the NW, which means I had to cross over the departure path. It was an interruption that set me off my sequence, and when I turned base, I was moving faster than I should, and noticed the gear down light wasn't lit. Hmmmm, I see the gear up light is working fine. Hey wait a sec!

I think distraction or interruption is the main cause, but shoot there's a million ways to mess up. One other weird thing, I believe I may have the oldest Bonanza that has never been on it's belly. So - I feel it's incumbent on me not to break that success streak.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Failure to run pre landing check,or distraction while doing the check. Complacency rules.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Meh. It will happen or it won't. GUMPS before the pattern. PUFFS on final.

I have one advantage:gear speed is 100 MPH- takes a lot to get that slow and pointing the nose down only results in +100 MPH.

I'm still concerned as I transition to IFR flight as the distractions increase opening more "oops I forgot something" moments. I'm not sure if it is a good thing to know or not, but my Bo has been landed gear up at least twice before. It is a hit in the wallet, but the previous owners passed away due to natural causes and the damage was repaired nicely.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

If you ever fly an older (pre-mid 80s) Beechcraft, my advice is to eliminate touch and goes from your routine.....and don't be in a hurry to raise the flaps after landing.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
Having the plane for sale for 2+ years with no buyers is one as well.
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Re: Causes if gear ups

brian];1869312 said:
but my Bo has been landed gear up at least twice before. It is a hit in the wallet, but the previous owners passed away due to natural causes and the damage was repaired nicely.
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A gear up in our plane is a complete write off sadly.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

The largest contributing factor is Crainalrechtitus.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

If I don't get the gear down (< 135mph) in the Comanche getting to flap speed takes a lot more work. With the gear down flap speed is a non-event at 17"
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
Having the plane for sale for 2+ years with no buyers is one as well.

I check the gear light no fewer than 5 times on every landing. I'm sure at some point I will get distracted and only check it 4 times, but I check when the gear is lowered, when flap notch 1 is done, when flap notch 2 is done, when flap notch 3 is done, on short final (200ish AGL), and just as I pull the last bit of power before I cross the threshold. I find it very hard to believe I would forget to check it at all 6 points during the landing process.
Click to expand...
If you forget your flaps you'll be down the three...
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I verify at 1 dot be,ow or 3n, from the FAF, I verify on short final, and I verify when I'm at my about to touch sight picture.


Did have one close call CPL student doing landing work, like nearly 2hrs of touch and goes, short fields, soft, power offs.

On millionth power off 180, waiting to drop the gear, student didn't drop em, normally a on the ball dude, he was always was very religious on the gear, forgot once, added to that crummy dim gear lights, I just happened to glance over at the bar on the PA24, holy crap batman! Powered up, about 100AGL the student figured it out, didn't say a word and wanted to do a full stop. Complacency.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I have read about go-arounds being a cause. 'Excitement' of the out of ordinary event, then totally forgetting about the checklist, probably after giving the reason for the go-round a silent cursing.

Here's another; a helpful copilot. "Flaps up?" (while rolling out) "em, that's the gear lever."

GUMPS
Gear down.
Undercarriage - check down.
Make sure the gear is extended.
Put the gear down.
Stupid! Get the wheels out!
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Good thread. Even though don't currently fly a retract, I added gear into all my flows/checklists so it's as ingrained as possible when I upgrade to a retrac in the future.

I assume the engine needs an overhaul in most cases even if you get away with minimal airframe damage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Tmpendergrass said:
I assume the engine needs an overhaul in most cases even if you get away with minimal airframe damage?
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Don't generally need an overhaul, but in most cases the engine has to have what's called a tear down inspection to make sure the crankshaft and other internals weren't damaged.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Tmpendergrass said:
I assume the engine needs an overhaul in most cases even if you get away with minimal airframe damage?
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Sometimes a new engine. And a new prop. Enough to write off some airplanes.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Fearless Tower said:
Don't generally need an overhaul, but in most cases the engine has to have what's called a tear down inspection to make sure the crankshaft and other internals weren't damaged.
Click to expand...


Gotcha. I suspect the worst situation would be if the pilot relizes his mistake inches off the ground a reflexively powers up for a go around and has a prop strike at full power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Clearly the biggest reason for gear up landings is the pilot forgot to put the gear down.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Dan Thomas said:
Sometimes a new engine. And a new prop. Enough to write off some airplanes.
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These days such valuation ratios are a godsend to many owners looking to exit the market, considering the resale value of an airplane with a documented history of prop strike/gear up tend to command less resale regardless of quality of repair. An insurance check generally commands more.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Short final, 3 green, no red, got brakes. It's worked for 23 years, I hope it keeps working :D
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Having about 2000 hours in a fixed gear single with the simplest checklists you could imagine, I know I'm going to need some serious mental pathway remapping when I upgrade to something that burns jet A and has a gear switch. Starting my multi engine commercial very shortly so that will be an interesting part of the training.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
Having the plane for sale for 2+ years with no buyers is one as well.

I check the gear light no fewer than 5 times on every landing. I'm sure at some point I will get distracted and only check it 4 times, but I check when the gear is lowered, when flap notch 1 is done, when flap notch 2 is done, when flap notch 3 is done, on short final (200ish AGL), and just as I pull the last bit of power before I cross the threshold. I find it very hard to believe I would forget to check it at all 6 points during the landing process.
Click to expand...

That is probably the best way....multiple checks, for the reason mentioned- not likely to miss all of them.

I thought the first sentence was cute too.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I'm hoping that the Johnson bar swing in the Mooney is going to be a sufficiently big event that I'm going to have a hard time forgetting it. That, and then thong doesn't easily slow down without it. Emphasis on hoping. In truth the only thing that can really save a pilot from a gear up landing is religious adherence to the GUMPS prelanding checklist.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I only touch the flaps if the gear is down. So no gear down, no flaps. I wouldn't forget to use flaps when landing so it is very useful to me that I've linked those two actions. Secondly, on final I check the gear down multiple times. Probably 3-5 times and I verbally say "gear is down" each time. It is such an ingrained part of my procedure that it is difficult for me to imagine how I'd forget it but yes it does happen hopefully never to me.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

narchee said:
I only touch the flaps if the gear is down. So no gear down, no flaps. I wouldn't forget to use flaps when landing so it is very useful to me that I've linked those two actions.
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That's fine as long as you don't move up to larger more complex aircraft where you put flaps out before the gear.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

SixPapaCharlie said:
Meh, People will learn to ignore anything.
Scroll to the 1 min mark and watch this guy ignore the alarm and land gear up
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Even if somebody yells at you, through you headset, to check gear down? :dunno:

Frankly, even though I only have a few hours of complex time under my belt, I can absolutely see how one can forget to lower the gear. 'Landing checklist complete, but I lower the gear later because I'm going to extend the downwind' or 'quick, let's fly a tight pattern to make room for the other planes who want to land'. Now, add to such a non-standard situation a babbling passenger, turbulence or some other kind of disturbance...
 
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Re: Causes if gear ups

I make it a habit to extend the gear while inbound to the pattern then run thru gumps midfield downwind, base and final. The gear will be extended before or at the border of the airport environment, I don't wait until I'm in pattern. The first time I think about putting the gear down upon arrival I do it. I don't put it off.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

On an instrument approach, the gear come down at the final approach fix. Flying the pattern, they come down upon arriving at pattern altitude.

I've had enough trouble with getting a down/locked green that the chance of having that problem again always makes me a little nervous when approaching an airport to land. Thus far, in 700 hours in make and model I haven't come even close to a gear up, but I'll never get complacent about it. I always check and recheck the gear on final. I still won't say it will never happen to me. It can happen to anyone.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

What if there's no FAF on the approach?
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

narchee said:
I only touch the flaps if the gear is down. So no gear down, no flaps. I wouldn't forget to use flaps when landing so it is very useful to me that I've linked those two actions. Secondly, on final I check the gear down multiple times. Probably 3-5 times and I verbally say "gear is down" each time. It is such an ingrained part of my procedure that it is difficult for me to imagine how I'd forget it but yes it does happen hopefully never to me.
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This was what I did when I started flying our Travel Air. Worked great.

Fearless Tower said:
That's fine as long as you don't move up to larger more complex aircraft where you put flaps out before the gear.
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Then I bought a C-55 Baron that has approach flaps.. sigh.

Time to start over!

At the end of the day you have pay attention every single time. You have to pay particular attention to the things that get you out of your routine and you have to realize that it can happen to anyone, anytime. The minute you think it won't happen to you, it probably will.

But for the grace of God go I....

I love that Baron, so blessed to be able to fly it, and will be so devastated if I'm the one to 'gear it up'... but life will go on after some embarrassment. :) and some more money!
 
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