Causes of gear ups

Re: Causes if gear ups

I put gear down when it's time to start my final descent, whether it be abeam the numbers on downwind or just about to capture the glide slope. Or... If I need to get the airplane slowed.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

I usually have people with me when I fly so I've gotten in habit of announcing to everyone that the loud noises they are going to be hearing are in fact not the airplane falling apart and crashing.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
What if there's no FAF on the approach?
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Then upon intercepting the approach course inbound. An alternative is upon arriving at MDA or pattern altitude, whichever happens first, but I prefer gear down during the descent.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
What if there's no FAF on the approach?
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In that case three mile final or if flying a pattern abeam the numbers. At least that's what works for me.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

RudyP said:
Having about 2000 hours in a fixed gear single with the simplest checklists you could imagine, I know I'm going to need some serious mental pathway remapping when I upgrade to something that burns jet A and has a gear switch. Starting my multi engine commercial very shortly so that will be an interesting part of the training.
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not a problem when burning jet a, you will get "too low, gear" screamed at you from the GPWS. just don't do it on a type or the next thing you will hear is "I have the sim, you will feel it go off motion and you get to sign that nice pink slip.

bob
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Kritchlow said:
Clearly the biggest reason for gear up landings is the pilot forgot to put the gear down.
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Oh? I thought the biggest reason for gear up landings is because the gear was up. Weld it into the down position and you won't have that problem. :D
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

RudyP said:
Having about 2000 hours in a fixed gear single with the simplest checklists you could imagine, I know I'm going to need some serious mental pathway remapping when I upgrade to something that burns jet A and has a gear switch. Starting my multi engine commercial very shortly so that will be an interesting part of the training.
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As long as you are in the habit of using actual printed checklists, you'll be fine!
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Most common is obviously pilot distraction. I have about a 90% success rate in distracting pilots working on complex endorsements, distracting them to the point I have to intervene to prevent a gear up landing. Best distraction is a power failure (simulated) near the airport.

The one actual gear up landing I watched was exactly this scenerio, I watched a Glassair III run out of gas about 3000 feet above the airport, He did a textbook emergency approach to the runway but forgot to put the gear down. He had actually been orbiting the field cycling the gear to test some indicator lights that were being tempermental and forgot which position he had last left the gear when the engine quit.

Brian
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Just bought into an arrow in the middle of June and have nearly 40 hours in it. Landing gear up is something that scares me the most so I use the fear in a good way.
My instructor did a few things to help me to always check the gear.
1. GUMPS check always at every point of the pattern, and after you run a few full GUMPS checks just do the UP part of GUMPS.
2. Keep the hand on the gear handle until it is fully extended/retracted. No hitting the gear lever and then reaching for the flaps while the gear is in motion. Verify it's where you want it to be.
3. 'Gear down to go down' Works great in the pattern and on some approaches (like capturing the glides lope and then gear down to go down)


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Johnson bar in the Mooney is a good reminder. I usually need the gear to get slowed down to pattern speed. I'm pretty sure that crossing the numbers at 130 kts. would be a good reminder that I was missing my speed breaks.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Gsxrpilot said:
Johnson bar in the Mooney is a good reminder. I usually need the gear to get slowed down to pattern speed. I'm pretty sure that crossing the numbers at 130 kts. would be a good reminder that I was missing my speed breaks.
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Although the actual numbers are slower in my Cardinal RG, the same is true. I need a notch of flaps to slow to gear extension speed, and I almost always need the gear down to get into the white arc.

Still, MANY pilots fly planes with these characteristics and they still land them gear up, so I tend to regard thoughts like this as little more than wishful thinking. The first step in preventing a gear up is to realize that whatever you fly, it COULD happen to you.

Unfortunately, other than following strict procedural discipline, I don't know what the second step is. I don't think anyone knows of a 100% sure fire way to prevent gear ups.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

dell30rb said:
As long as you are in the habit of using actual printed checklists, you'll be fine!
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Flying a less complex aircraft I would never look at a checklist in flight. Now that I'm flying something complex I'll never not look at a checklist in flight.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

steingar said:
Flying a less complex aircraft I would never look at a checklist in flight. Now that I'm flying something complex I'll never not look at a checklist in flight.
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You only added a prop knob and a gear handle. (Though you may have cowl flaps too)
That's your tipping point for checklist vs no checklist?
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Attended a safety seminar years ago and the guy said if he was in any retract the gear was always left down in the pattern or when doing touch and goes or on a go-around........said this was the cause of many gear up landings, playing with it in the pattern.........sounded like a great idea to me...........
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

For me, the gear is the first set of flaps, so a deployment of flaps prior to the gear would be an automatic disruption of the checklist flow.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Vf6cruiser said:
Attended a safety seminar years ago and the guy said if he was in any retract the gear was always left down in the pattern or when doing touch and goes or on a go-around........said this was the cause of many gear up landings, playing with it in the pattern.........sounded like a great idea to me...........
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No, no no. That's a horrible idea.

Do things the same EVERY SINGLE TIME. You fly patterns just like you would if leaving it. That includes flipping off the fuel pump, raising the gear, adjusting the prop/mixture, everything. Then on downwind do your entire landing routine.

Not sometimes do this, sometimes do that - THAT is how gear ups happen.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
You only added a prop knob and a gear handle. (Though you may have cowl flaps too)
That's your tipping point for checklist vs no checklist?
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The tipping point was that I could break the airplane while flying it. Can't go too fast for either gear or flaps. Heck, can't go to fast with the window open. And if I don't use those cowl flaps correctly I can break the engine. Time for a checklist.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

steingar said:
The tipping point was that I could break the airplane while flying it. Can't go too fast for either gear or flaps. Heck, can't go to fast with the window open. And if I don't use those cowl flaps correctly I can break the engine. Time for a checklist.
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How about a flow instead? Then again, Ohio, so enough said.

I used a checklist on the Comanche for about the first 15-20 hours or so. Then it just got in the way. Left to right, trim and fuel. That's my checklist.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

steingar said:
The tipping point was that I could break the airplane while flying it. Can't go too fast for either gear or flaps. Heck, can't go to fast with the window open. And if I don't use those cowl flaps correctly I can break the engine. Time for a checklist.
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You can break a 172 by trying a leaned go-around and can miss impending engine failure by never looking at the oil temperature or pressure gauges (cruise checklist).

You can very easily break a PA28 by forgetting to switch tanks over less than hospitable terrain. That seems to happen with startling regularity. About a year ago, someone lit up a hillside with his one full tank, while the fuel selector was switched to the empty one as he tried to glide through a mountain range over an undercast at night to an airport he couldn't possibly reach (the engine quit north of PYE VOR on V25 at 6000 and he tried to glide to Petaluma).
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

brcase said:
Most common is obviously pilot distraction. I have about a 90% success rate in distracting pilots working on complex endorsements, distracting them to the point I have to intervene to prevent a gear up landing. Best distraction is a power failure (simulated) near the airport.
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I do the same thing with all of my commercial students. I'll have them pull a 360 for "spacing" while they are doing their pre-landing checklist.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
...I used a checklist on the Comanche for about the first 15-20 hours or so. Then it just got in the way. Left to right, trim and fuel. That's my checklist.
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And is that how you teach your students? I'd like to know what the DPE's think about that.

Not saying I don't use and teach the flow method..but the checklist needs to be in there somewhere, even if just a quick glance to see that everything has been covered.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

MAKG1 said:
You can break a 172 by trying a leaned go-around and can miss impending engine failure by never looking at the oil temperature or pressure gauges (cruise checklist).
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There is nothing on either a Skyhawk or Cherokee that you have to do every flight or you'll break the airplane. It is a very different beast.

MAKG1 said:
You can very easily break a PA28 by forgetting to switch tanks over less than hospitable terrain. That seems to happen with startling regularity. About a year ago, someone lit up a hillside with his one full tank, while the fuel selector was switched to the empty one as he tried to glide through a mountain range over an undercast at night to an airport he couldn't possibly reach (the engine quit north of PYE VOR on V25 at 6000 and he tried to glide to Petaluma).
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Yeah, and I have to switch tanks on the complex airplane as well, and I can't even reach the fuel selector with the shoulder harness on. Yeah, there's stuff you have to do on every airplane. But trainers are less demanding and harder to break.

Ed mentioned using checklists for the first 20 hours. I'm 16 in and still can't land the thing consistently. I think the checklist might be around for awhile.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

MikeELP said:
And is that how you teach your students? I'd like to know what the DPE's think about that.

Not saying I don't use and teach the flow method..but the checklist needs to be in there somewhere, even if just a quick glance to see that everything has been covered.
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With my students it is "Do as I say, not as I do." Just like mom and dad were with me. :D

I tell em during training and for the checkride, do it this way. After the checkride do it however you want.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

steingar said:
There is nothing on either a Skyhawk or Cherokee that you have to do every flight or you'll break the airplane. It is a very different beast.
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Nothing? Really?

Lessee. Pull back power to idle for landing (or at least rollout). Flare. Approach well above stall. Take off with the flaps no lower than 10 deg (172) or 25 deg (PA28).

There are lots of things you have to do every flight.

172 takeoffs with full flaps have a way of ending badly.

You're drawing a false distinction. Every airplane has safety critical actions on every flight.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

steingar said:
T
Ed mentioned using checklists for the first 20 hours. I'm 16 in and still can't land the thing consistently. I think the checklist might be around for awhile.
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Worry more about the speed and less about the checklist. :D
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

MAKG1 said:
Nothing? Really?

Lessee. Pull back power to idle for landing (or at least rollout). Flare. Approach well above stall. Take off with the flaps no lower than 10 deg (172) or 25 deg (PA28).

There are lots of things you have to do every flight.

172 takeoffs with full flaps have a way of ending badly.

You're drawing a false distinction. Every airplane has safety critical actions on every flight.
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Shhhhhh....a PA28 or 172 has never been broken in the history of flying. Check the NTSB reports. You will never find either one of them in there. :rofl:
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
How about a flow instead? Then again, Ohio, so enough said.

I used a checklist on the Comanche for about the first 15-20 hours or so. Then it just got in the way. Left to right, trim and fuel. That's my checklist.
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Hey Hey Hey, enough of that!!!!!!!

I do agree about the pattern though. A touch and go, stop and go or full stop practice trip around the pattern is supposed to hit all phases of flight. I always raise the gear, back off to 25/25 climb power then 24/24 cruise power even if I an throttling back for the pattern speed in a few seconds.

Repetition is good especially with a checklist.
 
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Re: Causes if gear ups

EdFred said:
No, no no. That's a horrible idea.

Do things the same EVERY SINGLE TIME. You fly patterns just like you would if leaving it. That includes flipping off the fuel pump, raising the gear, adjusting the prop/mixture, everything. Then on downwind do your entire landing routine.

Not sometimes do this, sometimes do that - THAT is how gear ups happen.
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:yeahthat:
The only time I've flown a pattern with the gear down was when I was having trouble getting a green but I still wanted to finish a night currency run. Normally, do everything as if you were leaving the pattern then coming back in. In fact, many times I do just that.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

MAKG1 said:
Nothing? Really?

Lessee. Pull back power to idle for landing (or at least rollout). Flare. Approach well above stall. Take off with the flaps no lower than 10 deg (172) or 25 deg (PA28).
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I landed my Cherokee at all sorts of speed and power settings without incident. All you have to do is chop the power and it slows down and comes down. Easy peasy.

MAKG1 said:
There are lots of things you have to do every flight.

172 takeoffs with full flaps have a way of ending badly.

You're drawing a false distinction. Every airplane has safety critical actions on every flight.
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Sure, but you don't take off a Skyhawk with full flaps every time. You don't just chop the power on a Cherokee at stall speed 50 ft over the runway. That's really basic airmanship. I argued forcefully against checklists in the Cherokee, I felt I was more likely to have a midair than accidentally break it.

Now, in the new-to-me airplane, if I get going too fast I'll break the gear. If I get going too fast (and the airplane likes to go fast) I'll break the flaps I need for takeoff. In the meantime I still have all the stuff I was doing in the Cherokee on top of it all. Says me, time for a checklist. This is exactly what they're there for. The thing is the calculation changed. Used to be I felt I was more likely to have a midair than break the aircraft. Now I feel I'm more likely to break the aircraft than midair. And its a nice aircraft, I don't want to break it.

No doubt there are plenty of folks here who would be intuitively flying it and greasing every landing sans checklist or anything else in the same amount of time I've had. I'm not, and I'm far more likely to forget stuff when everything's new and shiny. To each his (or her) own.
 
Re: Causes if gear ups

Just an illusion or were both of those approaches depicted in those videos super steep? The one in France looked like the space shuttle. :dunno:

But that is what can happen - distractions of any kind. No one is genetically immune, but I make it a habit to call out loud "gear coming down, gear in transition, got a light, got a wheel (wife: got a wheel), got a front wheel (using the mirrors)." Then on base and final it's the same thing - out loud every time, sometimes shortened to "got a wheel, got a light."

When IFR, it's drop gear & flaps either 2 miles from FAF or on final when the GS is one dot above me. Then I check them one more time on the way down. That's how I trained and that's how I do it.

I use CCGUMPS, but any acronym you can remember will do.
 
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Re: Causes if gear ups

straight in landings. Why? Pilots tend to forget to do the CGUMP C (check the gear), G (gear down), U (undercarriage check,) M (main gear down), P (Put the gear down). They just fly it on in. Something about that downwind a beam the numbers, pull the power and land stuff....

What saves you? Always a last minute check on short final....
 
Causes if gear ups

coloradobluesky said:
straight in landings. Why? Pilots tend to forget to do the CGUMP C (check the gear), G (gear down), U (undercarriage check,) M (main gear down), P (Put the gear down). They just fly it on in. Something about that downwind a beam the numbers, pull the power and land stuff....

What saves you? Always a last minute check on short final....
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You have it backwards. It isn't the straight-in that is the danger. It is the people who insist on a set routine as the tripping point like gear down on the downwind every time who then go to a towered airport and are given something that disrupts their routine like an extended downwind or straight in.
 
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