Carb ice, or more?

[cbrennanmx]

O-200 Cessna 150


Hey there, and I am super excited to be on this forum. I really want some advice on an issue that I am having, well seems to me an issue. Sorry for long post but want to paint the full picture. I got a 150M (O200) that I have been using to build time, 400 hours of trouble free issues, and than out of no where, I would get a “hiccup” In the engine. This would occur at cruise, and appear almost that I had the mixture out too much and it coughed. I would go to place carb heat on, thinking carb ice but it would fix itself instantly. Then, flying along at 3000FT, I had the same thing occur, but this time, it lasted for several seconds. I prepared for an off-airport landing as I assumed that I had just lost an engine. I lost about 600RPM, and placed carb heat on, during this time, power was restored shortly after and I flew it to an airport to inspect. No vibrations, so I did not suspect a stuck valve, as it was the same symptoms of pulling mixture out too far. Carb icing was probable according to the chart at glide power, but was odd as I have never experienced this in cruise power. Spoke to mechanic, and he swore it was carb icing. Conditons have been colder here and high humidity, so I carried on. I got the same symptoms as a “hiccup” lasting for a second or two about twice since then, and one more event where it appeared I lost several RPM. This time, I pulled carb heat and it instantly fixed it. Not sure if it was a coincidence or what, but I thought it was odd to instantly fix ice, as it has to defrost, and run worse once it turns to water. Fast forward to today, climbing out (carb ice prob chart says high prob on cruise this time) the engine feels like its loosing power, and sure enough, I get what feels like trying to advance the throttle when it is too far leaned, there was a good shake that it had this time. It goes on for a while, and I turn immediately to the airport to come back. Pulled carb heat, and I do not recall when it was resolved, but it fixed itself. I also pulled power back to minimize the shaking, and landed. Mechanic again swears it is carb ice given the conditions, but I’ve never had this happen on full power. I asked if there is anything I could check, and he said it is virtually impossible to pinpoint the issue, and swears carb ice. What is yawls thoughts? Motor is about 2300TBO, great numbers and no issues. Just want honest advice if it sounds like a sticking valve or what. I ran it since this, mechanic came out and said it didn’t sound like a valve was sticking, and I flew it in the pattern once and no issues…





Only thing I need to replace I know is worn spark plugs. Mechanic stated to plan to replace them soon as they were pretty worn after he cleaned them. Really want some opinions, thanks to all.

 

[GeorgeC]

Welcome to PoA!

Sounds like it's been trying to tell you something... are you listening?

There are lots of O200 threads here. Even if the engine itself is fine, assuming you meant 2300 TSMOH, the rest of the FWF doesn't owe you anything. Check the airbox for obstructions? How much time is on the mags? Have you tried running on one mag vs the other? Induction? Carb? Fuel strainers? Check your logs- has anything been done in the last 10 years? 20?

If you don't already, use carb heat for ground ops.

 

[Gary Ward]

Welcome to POA.
Scary as hell when that happens isn't it?
I don't fly 0-200 but I experience the same thing.
I am sure someone with experience with your engine with be along to give you some thoughts.

 

[Jim_R]

If you don't already, use carb heat for ground ops.

What's the rationale for this? I was taught (and have seen/heard repeatedly since then) that since carb heat air bypasses the filter, it's best to minimize CH on the ground to avoid ingesting bugs / sand / dust etc. AFAIK there's no need for CH on the ground except to check that it's working as part of the runup.

 

[Dana]

Sure sounds like carb ice, and the small Continenals are notorious icemakers. Stuck valve tends to show up before the engine is warmed up, i.e. "morning sickness", it's less likely that it'd show up in cruise and then go away. Could be water in the gas, also likely in the same conditions, do you park the plane with full tanks, and is it tied down outside or hangared? Or some intermittent blockage in the fuel system. Worn plugs won't cause an intermittent issue like that.

 

[GeorgeC]

What's the rationale for this? I was taught (and have seen/heard repeatedly since then) that since carb heat air bypasses the filter, it's best to minimize CH on the ground to avoid ingesting bugs / sand / dust etc. AFAIK there's no need for CH on the ground except to check that it's working as part of the runup.

SOP for small Continentals when conditions are favorable for carb ice. During pattern work recently, a friend's plane iced up while taxiing after landing, which got his attention when climbing out on the next lap...

 

[luvflyin]

O-200 Cessna 150


Hey there, and I am super excited to be on this forum. I really want some advice on an issue that I am having, well seems to me an issue. Sorry for long post but want to paint the full picture. I got a 150M (O200) that I have been using to build time, 400 hours of trouble free issues, and than out of no where, I would get a “hiccup” In the engine. This would occur at cruise, and appear almost that I had the mixture out too much and it coughed. I would go to place carb heat on, thinking carb ice but it would fix itself instantly. Then, flying along at 3000FT, I had the same thing occur, but this time, it lasted for several seconds. I prepared for an off-airport landing as I assumed that I had just lost an engine. I lost about 600RPM, and placed carb heat on, during this time, power was restored shortly after and I flew it to an airport to inspect. No vibrations, so I did not suspect a stuck valve, as it was the same symptoms of pulling mixture out too far. Carb icing was probable according to the chart at glide power, but was odd as I have never experienced this in cruise power. Spoke to mechanic, and he swore it was carb icing. Conditons have been colder here and high humidity, so I carried on. I got the same symptoms as a “hiccup” lasting for a second or two about twice since then, and one more event where it appeared I lost several RPM. This time, I pulled carb heat and it instantly fixed it. Not sure if it was a coincidence or what, but I thought it was odd to instantly fix ice, as it has to defrost, and run worse once it turns to water. Fast forward to today, climbing out (carb ice prob chart says high prob on cruise this time) the engine feels like its loosing power, and sure enough, I get what feels like trying to advance the throttle when it is too far leaned, there was a good shake that it had this time. It goes on for a while, and I turn immediately to the airport to come back. Pulled carb heat, and I do not recall when it was resolved, but it fixed itself. I also pulled power back to minimize the shaking, and landed. Mechanic again swears it is carb ice given the conditions, but I’ve never had this happen on full power. I asked if there is anything I could check, and he said it is virtually impossible to pinpoint the issue, and swears carb ice. What is yawls thoughts? Motor is about 2300TBO, great numbers and no issues. Just want honest advice if it sounds like a sticking valve or what. I ran it since this, mechanic came out and said it didn’t sound like a valve was sticking, and I flew it in the pattern once and no issues…





Only thing I need to replace I know is worn spark plugs. Mechanic stated to plan to replace them soon as they were pretty worn after he cleaned them. Really want some opinions, thanks to all.

First thought is replace the plugs and see what happens. To have the plane in the shop for this issue, cowl off, first hour already paid for, get told the plugs are on their last leg, and not just replace them then is not passing the logic check with me. Another thought. Time. Applying carb heat to deal with icing has time issues. It takes a bit of time to melt the already existing ice and get the results thereof. But the effects on ‘mixture’ are instantaneous. Hot air being less dense.

 

[Gary Ward]

I learned about carb heat at the school of hard knocks because the planes I learned to fly in were fuel injected with no carb heat knobs.
When I got my plane I thought "what is that knob for? I better leave it alone" lol

 

[Pinecone]

Pulling the carb heat raises the density altitude of the air into the carb. So it is like making the mixture a bit richer.

You can try next time to push in the micture a click or two and see what happens. But if does not work immediately, turn on the carb heat while there is still heat in the system

 

[sarangan]

O-200 Cessna 150


Hey there, and I am super excited to be on this forum. I really want some advice on an issue that I am having, well seems to me an issue. Sorry for long post but want to paint the full picture. I got a 150M (O200) that I have been using to build time, 400 hours of trouble free issues, and than out of no where, I would get a “hiccup” In the engine. This would occur at cruise, and appear almost that I had the mixture out too much and it coughed. I would go to place carb heat on, thinking carb ice but it would fix itself instantly. Then, flying along at 3000FT, I had the same thing occur, but this time, it lasted for several seconds. I prepared for an off-airport landing as I assumed that I had just lost an engine. I lost about 600RPM, and placed carb heat on, during this time, power was restored shortly after and I flew it to an airport to inspect. No vibrations, so I did not suspect a stuck valve, as it was the same symptoms of pulling mixture out too far. Carb icing was probable according to the chart at glide power, but was odd as I have never experienced this in cruise power. Spoke to mechanic, and he swore it was carb icing. Conditons have been colder here and high humidity, so I carried on. I got the same symptoms as a “hiccup” lasting for a second or two about twice since then, and one more event where it appeared I lost several RPM. This time, I pulled carb heat and it instantly fixed it. Not sure if it was a coincidence or what, but I thought it was odd to instantly fix ice, as it has to defrost, and run worse once it turns to water. Fast forward to today, climbing out (carb ice prob chart says high prob on cruise this time) the engine feels like its loosing power, and sure enough, I get what feels like trying to advance the throttle when it is too far leaned, there was a good shake that it had this time. It goes on for a while, and I turn immediately to the airport to come back. Pulled carb heat, and I do not recall when it was resolved, but it fixed itself. I also pulled power back to minimize the shaking, and landed. Mechanic again swears it is carb ice given the conditions, but I’ve never had this happen on full power. I asked if there is anything I could check, and he said it is virtually impossible to pinpoint the issue, and swears carb ice. What is yawls thoughts? Motor is about 2300TBO, great numbers and no issues. Just want honest advice if it sounds like a sticking valve or what. I ran it since this, mechanic came out and said it didn’t sound like a valve was sticking, and I flew it in the pattern once and no issues…





Only thing I need to replace I know is worn spark plugs. Mechanic stated to plan to replace them soon as they were pretty worn after he cleaned them. Really want some opinions, thanks to all.

Carb ice can occur at criuse power, so I would not rule that out. But there are other possibilities. If you excessively lean the mixture to the point of roughness and then engage the carb heat, it will have a tendency to run better. As Pinecone stated, density altitude goes up, which may match the lean mixture. The other possibility could be an intermittent blockage in the induction. Carb heat bypasses the filter, so that might be a reason why it ran better with carb heat.

 

[RyanB]

Stuff like that is very hard to replicate. I’d start with a hot and cold leak down test and then look at the ignition system (mags, leads and plugs). If that’s fine, then an intermittent fuel disruption would be my next guess, ie., hoses, carb etc.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

So the first 400 hours you flew in this plane, nary a hiccup.

Did you fly all 400 hours in the same non-conducive-to-carb-ice weather?

Or were you not “one with the plane”in the first 400 hours, insensitive to all her callings (lol)?

I think you know better. Unless you were ignorant to sounds and feel, and only flew those first 400 hours in one weather condition, if it were carb ice then you should have experienced this before. Something else is up.

You’re not an A&P, but you know something has changed - it’s your blood & guts. Trust yourself and get someone to do good hard work to figure out which system has changed (worn, broken, out of adjustment, etc.).

-Some guy on the internet

 

[Magman]

It does sound like Carb Ice to me ; BUT!

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut a times.

Sometimes you have fix something and then find is was the issue.

How are the muffler baffles ?

I‘ve talked to folks that had them failing and CH would “ fix”.

So would changing frequencies, adjusting trim etc.

The Carb Heat system on 150s is often hooked up wrong.

The vertical “ Scoop” on right forward side of engine is for CABIN Heat.

The inlet for CH has a horizontal port that is “ sheltered” by the

lip of the nose bowl. The baffle with the port is very convenient for

placing screws during cowl removal. They DO fall in there and live in

the duct below. The duct below make a U bend to attach to the muffler.

The screws may be found at the bottom of the U bend. Water, critter

material are also easy to get in the system this way. Water is trapped

at the bottom and causes the wire in the duct to rust away and ruin

the duct. Poking a small hole there will allow water to drain. You want

this area kept free of anything that can get to the Carb.


There are 4 sumps in the fuel system of a 150. Often missed is the one on

the belly below the Fuel Shut - off. Some have had a quick- drain added

but most retain the stock cap and lock plate. i always check at inspections

and usually find water and crud there.


Lots of other tests including mags, carb etc but best to start with easy stuff.

 

[Dan Thomas]

This time, I pulled carb heat and it instantly fixed it. Not sure if it was a coincidence or what, but I thought it was odd to instantly fix ice, as it has to defrost, and run worse once it turns to water.

How much time is on the mags? Have you tried running on one mag vs the other?

I would bet that those mags have not been off in 1200 hours. Maybe never, since engine overhaul. 2300 hours is a long time for an O-200.

Mags don't just make a spark. They need to make a hot spark. Mags experience wear and points erosion and condenser fatigue, and the spark gets weaker. A weak spark has a hard time igniting leaner mixtures that a healthy spark has no trouble setting off, and the engine will start missing. Furthermore, unmaintained mags get dirty inside as the points burn themselves up, the carbon rotor brush wears, and the rotor and distributor cap electrodes erode. We get carbon dust and metal oxides that can cause flashover so that sparks get to wrong cylinders, making that engine get real sick. The plastic gears wear and contribute plastic dust that can get between the points and prevent spark generation. The oil seal wears out and lets engine oil into the mag, and then magneto death is imminent.

Pulling carb heat makes the mixture richer and easier to ignite. That can fool a pilot into thinking he had carb ice. It's good to be aware of carb ice and the atmospheric conditions that support it (temperature and dewpoint) and know why it forms and how to deal with it. Sounds like the OP has learned some good stuff. Too many just think it's a wintertime thing, and some have total engine failures in the summer because they thought carb ice was impossible then.

 

[Mikey52]

If you run 100ll then next time have your mechanic borescope your cylinders. At 2300 hours there will be a lot of lead build up on your pistons. Some times a little piece will break off and stop you exhaust Valve from closing completely for for a little while. This will cause some symptoms similar to what you describe.

Also sometime when the mechanic is cleaning your plugs, if they are massive electrodes instead of fine wire you can see what looks like little rocks in there. The same thing is on your pistons.

 

[ShaneWhite]

If the environmental conditions haven’t changed, then something might be up with the plane.

Could be carb ice if it’s gotten colder and this behavior coincided with the cold weather…but I’d put in new plugs…have mechanic check cylinders for excess lead/carbon buildup, put in overhauled mags if yours have been in there for over 500 hours, and check all sumps and strainers very well for any contamination.

You might have a different mechanic than your regular guy look the plane over. Sometimes a different set of eyes and experience will catch stuff that the other guy did not.

I’m assuming when you talk about pulling out mixture, you are concerned you might be running too lean?

Also…I’d get a compression check and do an oil change and send in the oil for analysis. Oil analysis can catch excess metal and sometimes alert you to a potential internal part failure (that can lead to engine failure if un-addressed).

If you do figure out the cause… Please post an update.

 

[jesse]

I've given at least a couple hundred hours worth of dual instruction in Cessna 150Ms and do not ever recall a time where carb ice developed at full power. I can probably count the number of times where carb ice occurred on one hand. That said, I did make sure carb heat was used liberally at the correct time (lower power settings).

I did get carb ice unexpectedly and severely in a 150M (ONCE), to the point to where I was pumping the primer as fast as I could just to keep the engine coughing. This did actually work...after a bit the carb heat got its work done and the engine returned to happy. Had I not resorted to the primer, I'd have put it into a field.

Based on the description you gave in your post, and my experiences in a 150, I'd put my money on there being another problem here. It's more of an exceptional event - not something nearly killing you on every flight.

As to your mechanic, ask them to fly with you on your next flight. IME, a mechanic will put a little more thought towards the problem when it is their own skin. If they refuse, find a different one.

 

[Clip4]

SOP for small Continentals when conditions are favorable for carb ice. During pattern work recently, a friend's plane iced up while taxiing after landing, which got his attention when climbing out on the next lap...

 

[Dan Thomas]

Could be carb ice if it’s gotten colder and this behavior coincided with the cold weather…but I’d put in new plugs…have mechanic check cylinders for excess lead/carbon buildup, put in overhauled mags if yours have been in there for over 500 hours, and check all sumps and strainers very well for any contamination.

Like I said, carb ice is not limited to colder temperatures. That carburetor is an efficient little refrigerator that can create ice at 100°F. Pilots need to know this, or they get blindsided by the ice on nice summer days, and crash when the engine quits.



Sparkplugs can be cleaned and gapped and tested on a plug tester. If they're the old Champions, pre-integral resistor types, then yes, they might be failing in operation but not on the bomb pressure test. To lose 600 RPM means that BOTH plugs in one cylinder are missing, which implies that one of them is not firing at all and the other is intermittently failing. You won't lose 600 RPM if one plug quits firing.

Just replacing all the plugs is throwing money at the problem, a poor way to do maintenance. The bills pile up as the mechanic replaces more and more stuff until the problem finally goes away.

Mags don't need "overhauling" at 500 hours. Even the mag manufacturers don't specify that. They need inspecting and adjusting, maybe a few small parts like the points, every 500 (Slick/Champion) or 400 hours (Bendix/TCM). If those mags haven't been off in a very long time, though, they might need total overhauling due to corrosion of the bearings, drive gear and other stuff, or they might be beyond economical repair and need to be replaced with new mags. This costs a LOT of money and is the reason why periodic inspections are cheaper than running the stuff to failure, aside from the obvious risk of engine failure if both mags are so shot that they both give up on the same flight.

Too many mechanics, if they take the mags off at all, send them out for overhaul. Expensive. If they buy the magneto maintenance manuals and follow them, along with a few special tools, they can do the inspections in the shop and save the owner money and gain his appreciation. The difference in performance after such repairs can be pretty stark. Smoother engine, more power, easier starting. Who doesn't want more of that??

 

[Clip4]

SOP for small Continentals when conditions are favorable for carb ice. During pattern work recently, a friend's plane iced up while taxiing after landing, which got his attention when climbing out on the next lap...

Taxiing with carb heat on is not an SOP.

 

[Clip4]

Like I said, carb ice is not limited to colder temperatures. That carburetor is an efficient little refrigerator that can create ice at 100°F. Pilots need to know this, or they get blindsided by the ice on nice summer days, and crash when the engine quits.

View attachment 122312

Sparkplugs can be cleaned and gapped and tested on a plug tester. If they're the old Champions, pre-integral resistor types, then yes, they might be failing in operation but not on the bomb pressure test. To lose 600 RPM means that BOTH plugs in one cylinder are missing, which implies that one of them is not firing at all and the other is intermittently failing. You won't lose 600 RPM if one plug quits firing.

Just replacing all the plugs is throwing money at the problem, a poor way to do maintenance. The bills pile up as the mechanic replaces more and more stuff until the problem finally goes away.

Mags don't need "overhauling" at 500 hours. Even the mag manufacturers don't specify that. They need inspecting and adjusting, maybe a few small parts like the points, every 500 (Slick/Champion) or 400 hours (Bendix/TCM). If those mags haven't been off in a very long time, though, they might need total overhauling due to corrosion of the bearings, drive gear and other stuff, or they might be beyond economical repair and need to be replaced with new mags. This costs a LOT of money and is the reason why periodic inspections are cheaper than running the stuff to failure, aside from the obvious risk of engine failure if both mags are so shot that they both give up on the same flight.

Too many mechanics, if they take the mags off at all, send them out for overhaul. Expensive. If they buy the magneto maintenance manuals and follow them, along with a few special tools, they can do the inspections in the shop and save the owner money and gain his appreciation. The difference in performance after such repairs can be pretty stark. Smoother engine, more power, easier starting. Who doesn't want more of that??

If it were that easy specialty mag shops would not exist.

 

[Dan Thomas]

If it were that easy specialty mag shops would not exist.

I did it in the flight school shop. A lot. Not a big deal at all. What is your magneto maintenance experience?

 

[Bell206]

If it were that easy specialty mag shops would not exist.

It is that easy. Over the past 20-30 years mechanics have shifted to either not wanting to perform the mag work or it was a shop insurance increase to work engine accessories. However, there still are mechanics who perform the inspections. It was actually easy money from my standpoint.

 

[Gary Ward]

Yes I had ice on the ground and in the air year round in my 172.
You guys are a bad influence.
I have been going back and forth with my AP about who does the mags.
He has done them and said we could do it together?
I have never done one I am tempted to take my mechanic up on his offer.
Nervous about it and waited for a local magneto shop to inspect the mags.
Plus I have that D mag, don’t want that to quit working.
Years ago the wait was not very long, but he has less guys now he told me and more work. Last 500 hrs inspection took 6 weeks.
Longest my plane has ever been down!

 

[mondtster]

Yes I had ice on the ground and in the air year round in my 172.
You guys are a bad influence on me.
I have been going back and forth with my AP mechanic about who does the mags.
He has done them and said we could do it together?
I have never done one I am tempted to take my mechanic up on his offer.
Nervous about it and waited for a local magneto shop to inspect the mags.
Plus I have that D mag, don’t want that to quit working.
Years ago the wait was not very long, but he has less guys now he told me and more work. Last 500 hrs inspection took 6 weeks.
Longest my plane has ever been down!

Personally, I’d make sure either you or your mechanic is familiar with the D magnetos and servicing them. In my experience they aren’t bad magnetos but are more demanding of 500 hour services so having someone local who can help you out in a timely manner will be far better than trying to stretch the service intervals while you’re trying to find a shop with time to do the work. They’re not really any harder to deal with than any other magneto.

 

[Bell206]

Nervous about it

Call up a bone yard and get you a couple sets of junk Ds then practice inspecting those and swapping parts.

 

[Gary Ward]

Agree ^^^^^^
Not sure if my mechanic has done D mags.
So that is why I use the semi local guy(hour away) who has a long history around here.
The mags come back looking new and all the old parts in a bag.
I don’t stretch out service intervals. If I got to wait I will on something that important.

 

[Gary Ward]

Call up a bone yard and get you a couple sets of junk Ds then practice inspecting those and swapping parts.

Boneyard?
I looked around for a spare set and found them really expensive and the 6 week wait was cheaper.

 

[RyanB]

A year or so ago the Slicks on the Archer were sent out to QAA for the 500hr. It was about a 6 week turnaround. I forget the exact cost, but it wasn’t particularly cheap!

 

[Bell206]

I looked around for a spare set

Not a "spare" set but a junk set that will never see an engine again. They're only to practice with. Call up Eileen at Dallas Air Salvage (boneyard) and see if she has any laying around to unload. Or maybe a mag shop for same?
"Spare" implies they can be fixed.

 

[Magman]

With D-mags replacement of the Impulse Spring is absolutely critical.

Not so obvious is assuring the correct Spring. Improved Couplings

use a Spring that is much more robust. It was the first Spring I could not

install myself. Fortunately the folks at Aircraft Magneto Service were

willing to do the task.


Since failure of the D Spring will result in engine stoppage, replacement

at the proper time is important . I do not agree with the 500 Hour figure.

Springs fail rapidly if they have ANY rust. Aircraft operated regularly

provide a fresh oil bath for the Spring during operation. The ones with

minimal usage have the oil run off , rust and fail. If Overhaul Time

of 4 years as stated by the mfg is not followed then at least replace

the Spring.


Another area of concern is the Mag/Engine Gaskets. Most any will work;

but only for a while. The are 2 styles; circular and circular with mounting

”Ears” for mags with adjustment slots. If a circular gasket is used on a mag

with slots the flange overhangs the gasket and and may crack. If a gasket

with Ears is used on a mag with no slots the hold-down clamps will be

against the gasket which will result in a ” False Torque”.


Either error can have very devastating results.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Unless you were ignorant to sounds and feel, and only flew those first 400 hours in one weather condition, if it were carb ice then you should have experienced this before. Something else is up.

Out of a few hundred hours in a Cessna 120 - winter, summer, spring, and fall, sun, snow and rain (even started to pick up some airframe ice once) - it quit in flight exactly once. Can't say for sure that it was carb Ice, but conditions were prime for it (in the middle of the red in Mr. Thomas's chart). Carb heat plus switching tanks brought it back to life - but switching back to the first tank later on did not cause a problem. So, ice seems to be the most likely cause.

 

[Gary Ward]

Not a "spare" set but a junk set that will never see an engine again. They're only to practice with. Call up Eileen at Dallas Air Salvage (boneyard) and see if she has any laying around to unload. Or maybe a mag shop for same?
"Spare" implies they can be fixed.

Will look into that, I didn't know they would have such a thing.
I would like to try out my first mag inspection on a tractor or something like that first though...lol

The old parts from the last 500 hr inspection. New capacitors and cap screws for the cap were provided. Mike gave me a SB and install instructions that I might not get if I did it on my own? This seems like a lot parts to have on hand for this kind of work?

 

[Bell206]

Will look into that, I didn't know they would have such a thing.

There's always aircraft junk parts laying around. Just need to know where to find them.

Mike gave me a SB and install instructions that I might not get if I did it on my own?

All the manuals, SBs, etc. are available. I believe TCM has them online for free? If not search for free copies. Matter of fact, get you a copy of the service manual for your mags and start studying it now. And I believe there are a number of vids on u-tube that show 500 insp on mags. Dont know if there is one on a D mag but you'll get the general idea anyway of what it takes.

This seems like a lot parts to have on hand for this kind of work?

Not "on-hand" for what you want to do. A mag shop, yes. Just need to order the basic ones, proper lube, etc. or kits if they still offer them, when the time comes to work your mags. Once you get into the inspection then order additional what you need. Use those parts as "new ones" on your junk practice mag???

 

[Clip4]

It is that easy. Over the past 20-30 years mechanics have shifted to either not wanting to perform the mag work or it was a shop insurance increase to work engine accessories. However, there still are mechanics who perform the inspections. It was actually easy money from my standpoint.

If it is that easy, mechanics would not have shifted not wanting the work and insurance would not have increased rates for this type of work. Parts today are cheap like they were 20-30 years ago.

Business is not adverse to easy profit and low risk.

 

[Bell206]

If it is that easy, mechanics would not have shifted not wanting the work and insurance would not have increased rates for this type of work. Parts today are cheap like they were 20-30 years ago. Business is not adverse to easy profit and low risk.

Well, I guess you know what you don't know.

So how many magnetos have you asked your mechanic to inspect in the last 20-30 years?

 

[Dan Thomas]

If it is that easy, mechanics would not have shifted not wanting the work and insurance would not have increased rates for this type of work.

Did insurance companies raise the rates for this type of work? Quote the sources for that.

It's much more likely that the old guys that knew how to do this stuff have retired, and the younger guys don't want to learn it, or don't have the knack of such work, or are scared of it. I am one of the old retired guys that, as a kid, fooled with fixing old machines like chainsaws and lawnmowers and motorbikes and boats and outboard motors. We fooled with electronics, too. I recently restored an 82-year-old console AM radio, vacuum tubes and all. Got it working again. But just try finding parts! Solid state circuitry runs at far lower voltages than the tubes did, so things like capacitors have to have high voltage ratings. Not common at all, and almost no demand for them, because younger folks don't actually fix anything anymore. They just buy new stuff. And so younger A&Ps take the mags off and send them out to people that do understand them and aren't afraid of getting into them.

The current generations grew up playing video games and don't even have a frame of reference for so much of this stuff, so they learn just as much as necessary to get the mechanic's ticket. In the US, formal A&P training is not even a requirement. Just experience, and passing a few exams, including a practical exam that might require checking and adjusting of the mag's timing to the engine. Nothing at all about the internals.

In Canada, formal training is required. Two years or its equivalent. If the training is received at an approved school, credit of up to maybe 22 months is applicable toward the four-year apprenticeship. If the training is through an "acceptable" program, the full four years of hands-on experience is required. No shortcuts. 7200 hours of it. 48 months. We get magnetos and a lot of other stuff opened up and fix them. And for the written exams, there are no exam question books with the answers in the back to memorize. Nope, you have to know the stuff.

 

[Clip4]

Did insurance companies raise the rates for this type of work? Quote the sources for that.

It's much more likely that the old guys that knew how to do this stuff have retired, and the younger guys don't want to learn it, or don't have the knack of such work, or are scared of it. I am one of the old retired guys that, as a kid, fooled with fixing old machines like chainsaws and lawnmowers and motorbikes and boats and outboard motors. We fooled with electronics, too. I recently restored an 82-year-old console AM radio, vacuum tubes and all. Got it working again. But just try finding parts! Solid state circuitry runs at far lower voltages than the tubes did, so things like capacitors have to have high voltage ratings. Not common at all, and almost no demand for them, because younger folks don't actually fix anything anymore. They just buy new stuff. And so younger A&Ps take the mags off and send them out to people that do understand them and aren't afraid of getting into them.

The current generations grew up playing video games and don't even have a frame of reference for so much of this stuff, so they learn just as much as necessary to get the mechanic's ticket. In the US, formal A&P training is not even a requirement. Just experience, and passing a few exams, including a practical exam that might require checking and adjusting of the mag's timing to the engine. Nothing at all about the internals.

In Canada, formal training is required. Two years or its equivalent. If the training is received at an approved school, credit of up to maybe 22 months is applicable toward the four-year apprenticeship. If the training is through an "acceptable" program, the full four years of hands-on experience is required. No shortcuts. 7200 hours of it. 48 months. We get magnetos and a lot of other stuff opened up and fix them. And for the written exams, there are no exam question books with the answers in the back to memorize. Nope, you have to know the stuff.

The insurance increase was an inference posted by another poster, but many mechanics shy away from mag work due to what they view as a port risk / reward situation. Another factor is the entry of a slick mags.

 

[Magman]

Suggest you mention “ E-gap” to your Tech.

If you get the “ deer in the headlights “ don’t let them touch

the mags!

 

[Dan Thomas]

The insurance increase was an inference posted by another poster,

Ah. Such a reliable source.

but many mechanics shy away from mag work due to what they view as a port risk / reward situation.

Their "view." That comes from a lack of experience and knowledge, not from any factual risks. Those same mechanics will blithely replace an engine, reconnect all the controls, fuel and oil lines, a far more complex job than opening a mag for inspection.

Another factor is the entry of a slick mags.

Slicks are easier to work on than Bendixes.