Can't "fail" a Flight Review - semantics?

docmirror said:
Like I said, and you've quoted, it's for evaluation. the only part of it that is training is now for follow-up plan.

In effect, the flight review is the aeronautical equivalent of a regular medical
checkup...


Fail either, and no flying. QED


OBTW; syllabus = AC in non-pilot speak.
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Except if you fail the medical, you don't get to work with the doc in his/her office until you're good to go, and that's the point.
 
hook_dupin said:
I shape the BFR to encompass areas that I think the student is potentially weak on. For example, if the reviewee comes to me with lots of cross country and instrument time, we probably then work on maneuvers. If the guy flies his Stinson off the back 40 and just enjoys seeing how the valleys unfold from 800' AGL, we probably go find a Class D or C airport.
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This is what I like too. When I schedule a BFR now, I am pro-active and I tell the CFI what I want/need to cover. My next one is going to be at night, on a no-moon week, and we're going out to W TX where there aren't any lights. For the ground, I want to cover legal stuff, and it'll prolly work out that I'll be grilling the CFI for answers to many of these legally sketchy areas of the regs.
 
Ron Levy said:
Except if you fail the medical, you don't get to work with the doc in his/her office until you're good to go, and that's the point.
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Uh - maybe you don't, but others do. That's why Dr Bruce has a successful AME practice.
 
docmirror said:
Uh - maybe you don't, but others do. That's why Dr Bruce has a successful AME practice.
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Once you go to Bruce for an FAA medical, if you aren't issued on the spot, Bruce has to tell the FAA, and you'll forever have to check the "have you ever been denied/deferred" box "yes". OTOH, on a flight review, if you come to me and for any reason at all I'm not able to endorse you that day, nobody else ever has to know, and you'll never have to check "yes" in any box you previously could check "no".
 
Wow. That there is some kind of stretch. Maybe even a grasp.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
What is? I am not following. Specifically, where is it that Ron is wrong?
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Specifically, that the BFR has changed thematically since the mid-80s. When it was introduced, as others have said as well as me, the plan was a training engagement. Now, it's no longer about training, but about regulation testing. I'd like to find the AC that came out when it first hit the regs. It would be easy to see from that. I don't think it's going to matter to you anyway, but the change is there just the same.
 
Is that the BFR changing or more wanker CFIs?
docmirror said:
Specifically, that the BFR has changed thematically since the mid-80s. When it was introduced, as others have said as well as me, the plan was a training engagement. Now, it's no longer about training, but about regulation testing. I'd like to find the AC that came out when it first hit the regs. It would be easy to see from that. I don't think it's going to matter to you anyway, but the change is there just the same.
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CHAPTER 3.
FLIGHT REVIEW
3-1.
STRUCTURE AND INTENT OF THE FLIGHT REVIEW.
With the increasing complexity of the aviation operating environment, CFIs may want more specific guidance on how to structure and plan a flight review and develop contents that are specific to the needs of the pilot under review. The intention of the flight review is to be an industry-managed, FAA-monitored currency program. The CFI must be aware that the flight review is not a test or check ride, but an instructional service designed to assess and enhance a pilot’s knowledge and skills.
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Taken from the current advisory circular. So explain to me how this is a "Checking" event and not a "Training" event?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Is that the BFR changing or more wanker CFIs?
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Since the CFI is reactive to the FAA, I think the FAA is driving the bus. Of course, not all CFIs are on board, but I can only give my example from taking a few, not having ever given one(not a CFI).
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Taken from the current advisory circular. So explain to me how this is a "Checking" event and not a "Training" event?
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I view it as an assessment followed by training where weak followed by a final assessment to ensure the training "took". If that can be accomplished in one flight, good, if it can't then flying again is easy enough

I must not mess it up too bad because every person that I've done a flight review for comes back in two years for the next one. Even those that took more than one flight.
 
MadseasoN said:
Kids aren't stupid. They know that getting a trophy doesn't mean they "won" and that there were no losers. It simply devalues the trophy itself. The adults are the one's overly concerned with it.
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Some kids.

Some attempt to assassinate the teacher who moved them out of the Captain of the Debate Squad position they felt they so richly deserved.

(Our recent school shooting in Colorado that has all but disappeared from the press once the press realized it wouldn't fit the anti-gun agenda freak-out model and draw lots of ad revenue.)
 
An interesting aside vis-a-vis the medical exam minutia in comparison to the BFR. Suppose I as a PPL holder want to fly, but don't want to take a medical exam. I can still exercise my privilege via SP using an LSA plane, or an LTA(compliant), or a glider. However, IIRC - I will still be required to submit to a BFR review and get a satisfactory completion every 24 calendar months, whereas I have no requirement for the medical exam. Hmmmmmmm
 
Henning said:
Yeah, I should have given the correct answer, "Most people who don't get signed off in the minimum 1+1hr is because their CFI needs more money.":rolleyes:
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I never felt any CFI signed off my review in any less than the minimum time required for me to be safe...they often found something I needed additional training, but never anything unreasonable.

Tell me again how the Venturi effect works?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Taken from the current advisory circular. So explain to me how this is a "Checking" event and not a "Training" event?
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I'm Certainly not a CFI or from the FAA- just someone who recently went through a BFR. I think the checking comes in during the flight and oral portion. For example, I was asked about documents required. I got all them but then the CFI asked "well what about I you fly outside the US?" I was totally stumped- I forgot you need an FCC radio operators permit( honestly how many people here knew that?) :) Now if this was a checkride I could have essentially failed if the DPE was a jerk, but given that it was a flight review, and I had proved adequate knowledge of the basic knowledge, I was taught what I did not know. Same thing happened on the flight. We went over emergency procedures and I got most of the required steps correct and certainly would have been able to put the plane down safely in the simulated engine failure. So the instructor then asked me, "ok where on the beach( my landing site) would you try and land this?" I said as far away from the water as possible. He said " well actually you'd want to land close to the water because that's where the sand is most firm and will lead to a greater chance of not getting the front wheel stuck." So he checked my knowledge and then taught me something. The final part was the landing and he said if I could hit the 1,000 foot markers we were done. I did and we ended right after that. So again the whole thing was set up around what I knew and could demonstrate followed by an educational piece which I found valuable. I would imagine if my skills were really poor, he would not be able to verify that I was safe and the whole review would take on a new dimension.
 
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