Can we yank and bank a Beechcraft ?

[Tom-D]

NTSB Identification: WPR11LA172
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, March 19, 2011 in Whidbey Island, WA
Aircraft: BEECH G35, registration: N4211D
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On March 19, 2011, about 1140 Pacific daylight time, a Beech G35, N4211D, sustained substantial damage to the aft fuselage during a recovery from an unintended unusual attitude near Whidbey Island, Washington. The certificated private pilot/owner was not injured. The personal flight was operated under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed. The flight originated from Everett, Washington, at an unknown time.

According to the pilot, he was on a personal flight, cruising at an altitude of 4,500 feet, and was engaged in correlating the indications of two panel-mounted navigation receivers in the cockpit. He also had a third navigation receiver, a handheld global positioning system (GPS) mounted on the flight control yoke assembly, in the lateral center of the cockpit. During the correlation effort, the pilot noticed that he was about to intrude into the military restricted airspace for Whidbey Island, designated R-6701. He initiated a turn to the right, with a bank angle that he estimated to be about 45 degrees, in order to avoid the restricted airspace. During the turn, the pilot referred to the GPS to ensure that he would clear the restricted area. When he returned his attention to the airplane's attitude, he noticed that the bank angle had increased to about 75 degrees right wing down, and the pitch attitude had decreased to about 20 degrees airplane nose down. At that point, the pilot noted that the airspeed was about 190 mph, which was in the yellow (caution) range of the airspeed indicator scale.

The pilot stated that he leveled the wings, and then initiated a pull-up. During the pull-up, he heard three or four "thumps" in rapid succession. After recovery to level flight, the airplane continued to "fly fine," but the pilot was concerned about the thumps, since he had never heard noises like them in that airplane. The pilot then flew the airplane "gingerly" back to his home field, where he landed uneventfully. After shutdown, the pilot examined the airplane, and noticed that some aft fuselage skins were wrinkled and/or torn.

Three days after the event, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors examined the airplane in the pilot's hangar. The inspectors noted three primary damage sites. On the aft right fuselage, a diagonal wrinkle about 2 feet long extended up and forward from the juncture of the fuselage side and bottom; the wrinkle intercepted the juncture at about the second bulkhead/former forward of the tailcone. On the opposite side of the aft fuselage, the skin was crumpled and dented in the same general region as on the right side, but the deformation did not exhibit the linear pattern observed on the right side. On the lower aft fuselage, the forward bottom skin was separated from its lap joint with the aft bottom skin at the aforementioned bulkhead/former; the skin was torn from the fasteners, which remained in the bulkhead. The FAA inspectors did not observe any indications of pre-event damage or corrosion in the affected areas. A cockpit G-meter that was operational during the event registered a maximum of about 2.5g and a minimum of about minus 0.7g, but the accuracy of the meter was not determined.

According to FAA information, the airplane was manufactured in 1955, and was first registered to the pilot in 1990. Pilot-provided information indicated that as of its most recent annual inspection in August 2010, the airplane had accrued a total time in service of about 4,257 hours.

FAA records indicated that the pilot held a private pilot certificate with airplane single-engine, airplane multi-engine, and instrument airplane ratings. His most recent FAA third-class medical certificate was issued in June 2010.

The 1153 automated weather observation at the pilot's home airport, located about 10 miles south-southeast of the accident location, included winds from 180 degrees at 7 knots; visibility 10 miles; scattered clouds at 3,200 feet; temperature 8 degrees C; dew point 1 degree C; and an altimeter setting of 29.75 inches of mercury

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How hard did this guy have to yank this to get the damage?
Are we in for another AD?

 

[Richard]

"eyes inside" at least he wasn't looking at the ASI or so he doesn't state. Beyond loss of situational awareness I see a whole bunch of other losses.

 

[jesse]

I suspect he got a little faster..and pulled way too hard. The Bo isn't weak. But it will drop a wing and tighten up to a spiral if unattended.

 

[Trapper John]

So the guy had "two panel mounted navigation receivers" and a GPS and still couldn't miss the restricted area? I looked at the sectional and there are plenty of landmarks.

So he gets rattled, and instead of paying attention to his turn, he looks at the GPS and about loses it.

File under: I'd rather be lucky than good.

 

[kgruber]

The guy's an idiot. That restricted airspace is hot about 6 hours every three years. Did he get a briefing? NO!!!!

 

[SCCutler]

I suspect he got a little faster..and pulled way too hard. The Bo isn't weak. But it will drop a wing and tighten up to a spiral if unattended.

Concur.

 

[Tom-D]

How hard do you have to yank, to bend it.

190K and pull ?

 

[dmccormack]

I suspect he got a little faster..and pulled way too hard. The Bo isn't weak. But it will drop a wing and tighten up to a spiral if unattended.

So will every GA airplane.

 

[gismo]

How hard do you have to yank, to bend it.

190K and pull ?

When the airplane is trimmed for level flight at 150 KIAS the speed will build quickly if you let it roll over. But when you subsequently level the wings the airplane will pitch up dramatically on it's own since the trim is set for 150 and it's flying at 190+. Add in a little back pressure from a panicing pilot coupled with the relatively light stick forces in a Bonanza and you're gonna exceed the max g load almost immediately. The proper technique is to roll wings level while pushing on the wheel.

 

[Tom-D]

When the airplane is trimmed for level flight at 150 KIAS the speed will build quickly if you let it roll over. But when you subsequently level the wings the airplane will pitch up dramatically on it's own since the trim is set for 150 and it's flying at 190+. Add in a little back pressure from a panicking pilot coupled with the relatively light stick forces in a Bonanza and you're gonna exceed the max g load almost immediately. The proper technique is to roll wings level while pushing on the wheel.

What I'm hearing is you can bend one pretty easy with a little inattention to detail?

 

[jesse]

So will every GA airplane.

Not nearly to the same degree. The reasons are mentioned in "Flying the Beechcraft Bonanza". I can't remember what they are.

If I'm showing someone how to fly a Bo it's something I demo to them. It really doesn't take that long to get out of hand. For unusual attitudes I'll often touch nothing and just let the airplane do it on it's own.

If a Cherokee or a Cessna is trimmed out well it'll take an awful long time to get into an unusual attitude with no control inputs being made. The Bo will do it in shorter order.

It doesn't mean the Bonanza is a bad airplane. It's just something to be aware of.

 

[pmanton]

But the G meter only showed 2.5 G ?????

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1

 

[Trapper John]

But the G meter only showed 2.5 G ?????

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1

I doubt the g-meter is accurate, given the G35 Bonanza was originally certificated in the utility category.

 

[ebacon]

Here is an excerpt from an NTSB report. It relates to a G35 Bonanza that suffered structural overlaod. The excerpt includes some numbers.

According to the manufacturer's Flight Strength Diagram or
Vn diagram for the G35, abrupt control column deflection at a speed of 113 knots (Va, or maneuvering speed) could produce a 4.4 G
structural load (Limit Load factor), while abrupt control column deflection at or above 152 knots (Vno/Vc, or maximum structural cruise
speed) could produce a 6.6 G structural load (Ultimate Load limit). Examination of the recorded radar data disclosed that the airplane
was traveling at 142 knots at the time of the breakup. Engineering analysis concluded that in a level turn, the bank angle required to​

achieve Limit Load is 76.8 degrees, and the bank angle required to achieve the Ultimate Load is 81.2 degrees.

NTSB Report No.
LAX02FA134

 

[Fearless Tower]

So will every GA airplane.

True, but some more easily than others.

 

[Fearless Tower]

"eyes inside" at least he wasn't looking at the ASI or so he doesn't state.

How would he have observed he was inside the yellow arc if he hadn't looked at the ASI?

 

[Fearless Tower]

How many here really believe everything he told the inspectors???

Alot of folks in a situation like that will tend to downplay the details. I suspect that he was going a little faster and had a bit more bank angle than he admitted.

 

[Lawreston]

Pictures! Where are the pictures?

HR

 

[Tom-D]

How would he have observed he was inside the yellow arc if he hadn't looked at the ASI?

We know that both of the pilots brain cells were busy doing some beside flying,

But how difficult is it to bend the BO? A little inattention to detail and you are in big trouble quickly, then a normal reaction of a cessna pilot and its bent before you know it.

It's a Question, not a knock on beechcraft.

 

[Bobcat1]

How many here really believe everything he told the inspectors???

Alot of folks in a situation like that will tend to downplay the details. I suspect that he was going a little faster and had a bit more bank angle than he admitted.

My first reaction to the story as well.

 

[Tom-D]

How many here really believe everything he told the inspectors???

Alot of folks in a situation like that will tend to downplay the details. I suspect that he was going a little faster and had a bit more bank angle than he admitted.

What you are saying is, you really must get wild with it before you will hurt it?

 

[Fearless Tower]

What you are saying is, you really must get wild with it before you will hurt it?

I don't know - BUT, I know that I would take any pilot's statements from an incident like that with a grain of salt.

Also, isn't the -35 Bo based on the T-34 airframe? If the details of the pilots story are true, I find it a little hard to believe that it caused that kind of damage, but I'll admit that I am no expert here.

 

[taters]

So 190MPH(+) is more than 165Kts on the Airspeed Indicator.....far...far above Va and it sounds like he was light which compounds this situation. I also dont buy the G meter thing if he was at a 75 degree bank. Yes stuff will pop at that stress level...but likely not on the wing, usually the tail will go first.

You have to watch your A$$ in a V-tail in those situations they will slide right thru Vne...my student damn near did it in his V-35B during unusual attitude practice yesterday.

 

[Trapper John]

How many here really believe everything he told the inspectors???

Alot of folks in a situation like that will tend to downplay the details. I suspect that he was going a little faster and had a bit more bank angle than he admitted.

I don't know that I'd be able to tell anyone exactly what instruments were reading what if I got into a loss of control situation like this guy did. The radar recordings or whatever data was saved into the GPS would probably be more accurate than what I could recall.

I'd be interested to know what prompted the FAA inspectors to show up 3 days later.

Here's another question: If the guy thought he was going to bust active restricted airspace, why didn't he pull the power back before he turned?

 

[gismo]

What I'm hearing is you can bend one pretty easy with a little inattention to detail?

I don't know if I'd call it detail (rolling into a steep spiral then pulling the wings off during the recovery attempt) but that sort of inattention can definitely bend a Bonanza or any other reasonably slippery airplane. Perhaps the most significant related aspect somewhat unique to Bonanzas is the light control forces which make them such a delight to fly (when paying attention). FWIW, all but the earliest Bonanzas are built to withstand utility category g-loads (+4.4g) so lack of strength isn't the problem.

 

[Ted]

Also, isn't the -35 Bo based on the T-34 airframe? If the details of the pilots story are true, I find it a little hard to believe that it caused that kind of damage, but I'll admit that I am no expert here.

I recall the T-34 had some incidents with wings falling off when over-stressed that resulted in an AD.

Low weight, high speed, rapid movement of the controls. Yeah, I can see that overstressing the plane.

 

[Trapper John]

Also, isn't the -35 Bo based on the T-34 airframe?

I think it's the other way around.

 

[dmccormack]

Not nearly to the same degree. The reasons are mentioned in "Flying the Beechcraft Bonanza". I can't remember what they are.

If I'm showing someone how to fly a Bo it's something I demo to them. It really doesn't take that long to get out of hand. For unusual attitudes I'll often touch nothing and just let the airplane do it on it's own.

If a Cherokee or a Cessna is trimmed out well it'll take an awful long time to get into an unusual attitude with no control inputs being made. The Bo will do it in shorter order.

It doesn't mean the Bonanza is a bad airplane. It's just something to be aware of.

Are we talking V tail or Straight?

The V tail seems to slide into a spiral more readily when you don't keep your feet on the pedals (essentially, you become your own yaw damper).

But every airplane will eventually head off into a spiral -- they have to, or we couldn't turn them.

 

[taters]

Are we talking V tail or Straight?

The V tail seems to slide into a spiral more readily when you don't keep your feet on the pedals (essentially, you become your own yaw damper).

But every airplane will eventually head off into a spiral -- they have to, or we couldn't turn them.

The V-tails do this about twice as fast as a straight tail IME.

 

[jesse]

Are we talking V tail or Straight?

The V tail seems to slide into a spiral more readily when you don't keep your feet on the pedals (essentially, you become your own yaw damper).

But every airplane will eventually head off into a spiral -- they have to, or we couldn't turn them.

Both of them will do it. In shorter order than most ga aircraft I've tried it in.

 

[gismo]

I recall the T-34 had some incidents with wings falling off when over-stressed that resulted in an AD.

Low weight, high speed, rapid movement of the controls. Yeah, I can see that overstressing the plane.

The T-34 design was an extension of the Bonanza line albeit with a very different (and conventional) tail. The wings were beefed up along with several other structural changes as well. But the issue with wing separation in the T-34s appears to be due to repeated overstressing which occurred during air combat maneuvering by non-pilots (or at least non ACM trained pilots). AFaIK all T-34 wing failures occurred in planes that had been used by commercial entities that sell ACM experience to all comers.

 

[dmccormack]

Both of them will do it. In shorter order than most ga aircraft I've tried it in.

Hunh? That's contrary to my experience in a 1982 A36 and a 1947 -35.

If you fly feet-on-the-floor you will have "dutch roll" (I know, wrong term, but that's what people call it) in the V. Place your feet on the pedals and learn to press against the slight pressure and you'll be nice and level.

The A36 can be flown as flat-footed as any Cherokee.

 

[zaitcev]

When the airplane is trimmed for level flight at 150 KIAS the speed will build quickly if you let it roll over. But when you subsequently level the wings the airplane will pitch up dramatically on it's own since the trim is set for 150 and it's flying at 190+. Add in a little back pressure from a panicing pilot coupled with the relatively light stick forces in a Bonanza and you're gonna exceed the max g load almost immediately. The proper technique is to roll wings level while pushing on the wheel.

This is called "phugoid from hell". Denker says that some airplanes pitch up beyond vertical as if trying to make an Immelman turn.

 

[denverpilot]

So is anyone else thinking:

- Headed directly for a Restricted Area at 160 knots, your head is already squarely up and locked?

- If your first thought was to yank and bank and not grab a fistful of throttle and slow your "arrival" into airspace you don't want to go into, your head is even more squarely up and locked?

- If you've owned the aircraft since 1990 you probably should already know it'll drop the nose and speed up dramatically in that turn, as others are pointing out here, unless your head has been up and locked for 21 years?

I think this dude just thought he could get away with it.

He probably built the habit of playing "fighter pilot" in his Bo long before he broke the thing.

 

[Ted]

The T-34 design was an extension of the Bonanza line albeit with a very different (and conventional) tail. The wings were beefed up along with several other structural changes as well. But the issue with wing separation in the T-34s appears to be due to repeated overstressing which occurred during air combat maneuvering by non-pilots (or at least non ACM trained pilots). AFaIK all T-34 wing failures occurred in planes that had been used by commercial entities that sell ACM experience to all comers.

I agree that the wing failures appeared to be due to repeated overstressing outside of their limits. However, when I saw the AD fix (the cable that connects the wings) and talked to the creators about it, they indicated that the same cable with different lengths could be used on the Bonanza, Baron, and I think others, due to overall similarity.

My point was more that, yes, if you overstress an airplane, it will break. Furthermore, this series of aircraft has shown that previously. I'm guessing this guy had a significant overstressing.

 

[taters]

Hunh? That's contrary to my experience in a 1982 A36 and a 1947 -35.

If you fly feet-on-the-floor you will have "dutch roll" (I know, wrong term, but that's what people call it) in the V. Place your feet on the pedals and learn to press against the slight pressure and you'll be nice and level.

The A36 can be flown as flat-footed as any Cherokee.

Let go of an A-36 or V tail....usually a wing will drop within 30 sec or so...that wing will then "pickup" with the excess lift and usually roll the other way...then your spiral starts. The Vtails are prone to this much quicker that the straight tail from my experience across many models. I think Jesse is saying that Bonanzas tend to find their way to a spiral quicker than other GA planes..that very well might be true, Ive personally never noticed but I sure as heck have noticed V-tails lose it in a hurry.

 

[dmccormack]

Let go of an A-36 or V tail....usually a wing will drop within 30 sec or so...that wing will then "pickup" with the excess lift and usually roll the other way...then your spiral starts. The Vtails are prone to this much quicker that the straight tail from my experience across many models. I think Jesse is saying that Bonanzas tend to find their way to a spiral quicker than other GA planes..that very well might be true, Ive personally never noticed but I sure as heck have noticed V-tails lose it in a hurry.

Compared to Cessna and Piper trainers?

Sure. That comes with the ability to maneuver.

 

[taters]

I might add that many factors dictate how long a plane stays "stable." With precise trimming and smooth air I can get my PA-28 to go minutes at a time without touching it, while a student might only last 20 seconds in the same airframe.

 

[taters]

So is anyone else thinking:

- Headed directly for a Restricted Area at 160 knots, your head is already squarely up and locked?

- If your first thought was to yank and bank and not grab a fistful of throttle and slow your "arrival" into airspace you don't want to go into, your head is even more squarely up and locked?

- If you've owned the aircraft since 1990 you probably should already know it'll drop the nose and speed up dramatically in that turn, as others are pointing out here, unless your head has been up and locked for 21 years?

I think this dude just thought he could get away with it.

He probably built the habit of playing "fighter pilot" in his Bo long before he broke the thing.

well said..

 

[Trapper John]

So is anyone else thinking:

- Headed directly for a Restricted Area at 160 knots, your head is already squarely up and locked?

I think this part is strange. The pilot appears to be from the local area, and presumably would know the restricted space is rarely active. Why the sudden turn?

- If your first thought was to yank and bank and not grab a fistful of throttle and slow your "arrival" into airspace you don't want to go into, your head is even more squarely up and locked?

Agree.

- If you've owned the aircraft since 1990 you probably should already know it'll drop the nose and speed up dramatically in that turn, as others are pointing out here, unless your head has been up and locked for 21 years?

I think this dude just thought he could get away with it.

He probably built the habit of playing "fighter pilot" in his Bo long before he broke the thing.

I think that if this guy was a "cowboy pilot" type, he wouldn't have lived to own his Bo for 20 years. He would have crashed long ago.