Buying an RV-6a/7a

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Tmpendergrass

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Tmpendergrass
After extensive research and help from this forum, I am looking at purchasing a used rv-6a or 7a. I'm seeking advice for what to look for, and what to stay away from when buying a used experimental.
 
Paging Chris Jones. Paging Geico. Paging Jay Hoenick (sp. Sorry, Jay.)
 
Buy one that conforms to plans. Have an experienced RV builder/flyer inspect the airplane. You might have an a&p take a look too. Stay away from auto conversions and other oddball stuff.
 
Details matter. Sadly, some bad rivet work is often covered up with bondo, but even some pretty poor rivet work seems to hold up OK in use.

Where homebuilders tend to come up short (based on accident statistics and what I've seen personally) is with the fuel / electrical systems. There is nothing wrong with SAE grade fuel lines, or parts from Mouser - but the fuel line routing, wire terminations and routing, etc. can be a mess and leave you with the potential for problems.

Don't get sucked in by a snazzle dazzle paint job - look at the details of the workmanship. Anywhere you can see the back side of the skins look for over driven rivets, dents from the rivet gun, etc. I would be more impressed by someone that didn't bondo over every rivet to make it look nice (and hide the oopses).

Not an A&P, not an RV expert.
 
tsts4 said:
Go over to Van's Air Force, www.vansairforce.net, and post your question.
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Best advice so far. And definitely get a repeat-offender builder to do the pre-buy inspection. Anyone that has finished 2 or more slow-build kits to flying status will know exactly where to look for warts on the airplane if they exist.
 
Henning said:
Seriously, it's the only plane that has as many landing accidents with a nose wheel as a tail.
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We'll never see the real numbers. Lots of experimentals get pushed back into the hangar with groundloop or nose gear damage, and miraculously roll back out in a couple of months fully repaired and without any documentation of the accident/incident or the repairs.
 
DaleB said:
Yes. That way you'll get more advice from people who know what they're talking about. :)
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This.
Definitely.
VAF is where the hardcore RV experts hang out. Folks on the VAF forums eat, sleep, live and breathe RVs.
 
Then why does the RV community more than any other in GA even Ex/AB get killed in their planes if the community support is so good? Not to belittle the dead, but there is another thread active right now exemplifying this.
 
Henning said:
Then why does the RV community more than any other in GA even Ex/AB get killed in their planes if the community support is so good? Not to belittle the dead, but there is another thread active right now exemplifying this.
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I listed the reasons once, but was told that my "ignorance is breathtaking" by someone who took offense with my statement that people do more show boating in hot rod airplanes, so I won't type that again.
 
skelrad said:
Could it have something to do with the fact that there have been almost 8,400 RVs completed? I don't know of another segment of experimental aviation that comes even close to those numbers and can be lumped into an apples to apples comparison in terms of number of accidents. Besides, the posters are talking community support, not forced compliance to rules established by the community. You can have great advice given all day long, but when you have thousands of aircraft flying and many more being worked on, there are always idiots who will roll their eyes at good advice and still do something stupid.
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That doesn't change the percentages. What it leads me to believe is that the collective wisdom and advice distributed throughout the RV community isn't that dang good. Not much is posted on this board to change that opinion either. A gentleman here took transition training from a well respected RV guy, from what I have read and viewed here, that training was third rate at best.
 
Henning is right about the nosewheel, it is the only really poor design feature of RV's. Stop by the emergency repair tent at OSH and ask them how many nosewheel problems they've seen over the years just at the show. Get one without that problem.
 
And RV's are unique in that regard, as it has never happened in any other segment of aviation. No, siree. Logbooks are pure as diven snow and owners attend church regularly.
kyleb said:
We'll never see the real numbers. Lots of experimentals get pushed back into the hangar with groundloop or nose gear damage, and miraculously roll back out in a couple of months fully repaired and without any documentation of the accident/incident or the repairs.
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To the OP - seriously, go to VAF. You'll get better info specific to your question there. This place is so anti-RV that it isn't even funny anymore.
 
Henning said:
A gentleman here took transition training from a well respected RV guy, from what I have read and viewed here, that training was third rate at best.
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I guess what I don't understand is that if you learned to fly properly in the first place, and have decent skills, why is the "RV instructor" so danged important? There really is very little special about the way an RV flies or handles. It's just a damn airplane...and and honest, straightforward, very easy one at that - tailwheel or trike. If you were a good pilot before you bought an RV, you will be a good RV pilot whether your transition instructor was worth a damn or not. Likewise, if you were a bad pilot before the RV, spending a few hours with the best RV instructor in the world will probably leave you with marginal capability when all's said and done.
 
I think the truth is that the Koolaide from the zealots no longer sells quite as easily and others have decided to stick with the Cokes and Dr. Peppers they have known and liked for years.

Stated differently, many who post here don't really give a shlt what anybody else flies but are willing to call a spade a spade. Or even a bleeping shovel if necessary.

CJones said:
To the OP - seriously, go to VAF. You'll get better info specific to your question there. This place is so anti-RV that it isn't even funny anymore.
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Here are my observations on the RV series and specifically the 6/7. The reason the RVs are so popular is that they do have great performance and have very nice flying qualities. The later 6s and all of the 7s are matched hole tooling so it is hard to build a crooked one. Quality of workmanship is all over the board and it is best to get an experienced builder to do a pre buy.
As for the accident rate if you discount the first 40 hours I think you will find they are in line with most of the GA fleet. Almost all of the nosewheel incidents are pure pilot error. Yes you have to be a little more careful with the RV nosegear but if flown properly which is to say good basic pilot technique you won't have any problem with it. The 6/7 has a good useful load but it is easy to get it aft CG and even when loaded to the aft limit the elevator control gets very light. I think that is one reason you see stall/spin accidents at the end of a cross country.
As for transition training unfortunatly there are quite a few experts out there that don't know how to fly one properly and pass on poor technique to others. The biggest problem I see with most RV pilots is landing way too fast which causes most of the nosewheel problems.
The RV is a great cross country airplane and a lot of fun to fly. Flown with good basic flying skills it is a very safe airplane even the A's. With proper transition training a low time pilot can learn to fly it in just a few hours. Right now they are a great bang for the buck.
I have built a RV7 start to finish, am finishing another one and have been involved in building several others. I have also done a few initial test flights on RVs and transition training. I have also flown all of the RV series except the 3, 12, and 14. I don't have a bias for RVs but just trying to give some insight to help you make a decision. Don
 
Right, and listen to the advice given by other RV pilots who say 'Land hot because the RV will drop if you don't, I land at 80'. This is poor aircraft handling and poor logic.
 
wabower said:
I think the truth is that the Koolaide from the zealots no longer sells quite as easily and others have decided to stick with the Cokes and Dr. Peppers they have known and liked for years.

Stated differently, many who post here don't really give a shlt what anybody else flies but are willing to call a spade a spade. Or even a bleeping shovel if necessary.
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Henning said:
Right, and listen to the advice given by other RV pilots who say 'Land hot because the RV will drop if you don't, I land at 80'. This is poor aircraft handling and poor logic.
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Please resist the urge to lump all RV-drivers into the same category as the minority over-zealous folks who seem to draw the most attention.
 
Henning said:
Right, and listen to the advice given by other RV pilots who say 'Land hot because the RV will drop if you don't, I land at 80'. This is poor aircraft handling and poor logic.
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Yep, lots of bad advice. But you will find that anywhere - just like the 172 drivers who say they approach at 70 kts with power and partial flaps because of the "high" descent rate at 1.3Vso, power off with full flaps...yeah right.
 
CJones said:
To the OP - seriously, go to VAF. You'll get better info specific to your question there. This place is so anti-RV that it isn't even funny anymore.
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I thought we were anti Cirrus? Is the Cirrus off the hook now? I really can't keep up.
 
I understand fully. Too bad they don't.

CJones said:
Please resist the urge to lump all RV-drivers into the same category as the minority over-zealous folks who seem to draw the most attention.
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Its amazing how a guy starting a thread asking what to look out for in purchasing an RV 6A/7A has morphed into RV pilot bashing.

All joking aside, I am really starting to feel unwelcome here. In a way, its actually amusing to see how pilots can form opinions about fellow pilots solely based on what airplane they fly. Incredible.....:dunno:


Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
 
CJones said:
Please resist the urge to lump all RV-drivers into the same category as the minority over-zealous folks who seem to draw the most attention.
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Problem is it's the 'over zealous' folks that have the loudest voices and widest spread influence.
 
painless said:
Its amazing how a guy starting a thread asking what to look out for in purchasing an RV 6A/7A has morphed into RV pilot bashing.

All joking aside, I am really starting to feel unwelcome here. In a way, its actually amusing to see how pilots can form opinions about fellow pilots solely based on what airplane they fly. Incredible.....:dunno:


Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
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Plenty of RV drivers here like CJones that don't get bashed on. People here don't get bashed on for what they fly, they get bashed on for what they say. Vans drivers tend to believe and do dumb things, even Richard VanGrunsven acknowledges this and has addressed it. Apparently a cult of idiocy and ineptitude fortified with bravado that has grown around this design set, those people get bashed. Don't join the cult and you won't get bashed.
 
Henning said:
Plenty of RV drivers here like CJones that don't get bashed on. People here don't get bashed on for what they fly, they get bashed on for what they say. Vans drivers tend to believe and do dumb things, even Richard VanGrunsven acknowledges this and has addressed it. Apparently a cult of idiocy and ineptitude fortified with bravado that has grown around this design set, those people get bashed. Don't join the cult and you won't get bashed.
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You say folks don't get based for flying RV's, then in the next sentence you make a generalization that bashes folks that fly RV's....
 
dweyant said:
You say folks don't get based for flying RV's, then in the next sentence you make a generalization that bashes folks that fly RV's....
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No, I separated them out. That they exist is an undeniable fact, to ignore it is disingenuous.
 
And almost any comment that questions the RV's status as the be-all end-all to all GA problems is immediately labeled by the zealots as bashing.
yakdriver said:
And almost all of the people bashing RVs have never flown one. Don
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yakdriver said:
And almost all of the people bashing RVs have never flown one. Don
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I have never bashed the RV, I think it's a decent airplane and can even be quoted recommending it when it's the best option for the requirement. I have flown the 4,6,&8 and would consider buying a 4.
 
I've flown in two, and both were as maneuverable as could be. Responsive, aerobatic, and fast. Great aircraft.
 
painless said:
Its amazing how a guy starting a thread asking what to look out for in purchasing an RV 6A/7A has morphed into RV pilot bashing.

All joking aside, I am really starting to feel unwelcome here. In a way, its actually amusing to see how pilots can form opinions about fellow pilots solely based on what airplane they fly. Incredible.....:dunno:


Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI
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Just curious, are their members on the VAF site that don't own an RV but another make (certified?) that go into inane rants about their favorite airplane and why it's superior to the RV?

And I agree, the bashing as you say is not against the RV or it's owners but the few zealots who make it look bad for the rest.

Post a thread and ask a question about a C-337 and watch the keyboard tourettes break out. :rolleyes:
 
Henning said:
Plenty of RV drivers here like CJones that don't get bashed on. People here don't get bashed on for what they fly, they get bashed on for what they say. Vans drivers tend to believe and do dumb things, even Richard VanGrunsven acknowledges this and has addressed it. Apparently a cult of idiocy and ineptitude fortified with bravado that has grown around this design set, those people get bashed. Don't join the cult and you won't get bashed.
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Bull **** Henning. Complete Bull ****.

I'm not zelous because of what I fly, I am a zeolous supporter of RV and experimental because of the BS spread here.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Just curious, are their members on the VAF site that don't own an RV but another make (certified?) that go into inane rants about their favorite airplane and why it's superior to the RV?

And I agree, the bashing as you say is not against the RV or it's owners but the few zealots who make it look bad for the rest.

Post a thread and ask a question about a C-337 and watch the keyboard tourettes break out. :rolleyes:
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More bull ****.

How many rants have people had against "garage built" airplanes? I didn't start ranting about the negatives of certifieds, but there are 1,000's of posts here backing RV's, RV drivers are dangerous, RV drivers doing over head breaks, ect, ect.

Complete bull ****.
 
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