Buying an airplane without seeing it??

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Kitfox43

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Kitfox43
Have looked at pictures, logs, etc. Will have a shop do a pre purchase, current owner is willing to ferry airplane to my location, but won't do so, till aircraft sale has taken place. Do due current circumstances, I'm unable to travel right now. What's the best way to transfer funds and ownership? Anyone every done this before? Good or bad idea?
 
Kitfox43 said:
Have looked at pictures, logs, etc. Will have a shop do a pre purchase, current owner is willing to ferry airplane to my location, but won't do so, till aircraft sale has taken place. Do due current circumstances, I'm unable to travel right now. What's the best way to transfer funds and ownership? Anyone every done this before? Good or bad idea?
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Via AOPA or others in a escrow account. Have a pre purchase agreement ready so u can back out if things doesn’t look good. The shop doing pre purchase inspection- make sure the aircraft is currently not maintained by them or have any history. Can be done. When I bought mine the first time I saw it in person was when I was there to pick it up
 
Me too. Everything was ready to go but I had an exit plan if it wasn’t as advertised
 
Purchased my twin years ago,by internet and phone,in Texas. Had the pre purchase from a neutral shop. Set up a CFI,for checkout. Then flew my trade to Texas and flew the twin home. The transfer of money due was done by the loan company. Never had a complaint.
 
I bought mine when I was a student pilot with 25 hrs. I couldn't go get mine and I didn't fly to NJ to see it 1st. The owner owned it less than 2 yrs but bought it from his buddy who owned it for a few decades. I talked to the previous owner for a few hrs before I had the owner deliver it to NC. I believe I paid about $5000 deposit (by personal check, I thought I could trust him, I was right) a few weeks before it was delivered. I had a bank check for the balance ready for the owner upon delivery. We sat down in my fbo and did the paper work. We tied it down then I drove him to RDU to catch his flight home. The owner was a sheriff, I thought I could trust him (I was right). The previous owner was a business man, I thought I could trust him (I was right). Everything they told me about the plane was correct. I've owned it for over 2 yrs and have not found any surprises.

I saw lots of pictures, all logs, talked to the a&p who had been maintaining it, researched the owner and previous owner...but I didn't get a pre-buy. Turns out it would have been a waste of time and money. I would never recommend anyone not get a pre-buy. I believe mine was a unique situation in that I was able to talk to all the different people with knowledge of the plane. No regrets.
 
2Airtime2 said:
I bought mine when I was a student pilot with 25 hrs. I couldn't go get mine and I didn't fly to NJ to see it 1st. The owner owned it less than 2 yrs but bought it from his buddy who owned it for a few decades. I talked to the previous owner for a few hrs before I had the owner deliver it to NC. I believe I paid about $5000 deposit (by personal check, I thought I could trust him, I was right) a few weeks before it was delivered. I had a bank check for the balance ready for the owner upon delivery. We sat down in my fbo and did the paper work. We tied it down then I drove him to RDU to catch his flight home. The owner was a sheriff, I thought I could trust him (I was right). The previous owner was a business man, I thought I could trust him (I was right). Everything they told me about the plane was correct. I've owned it for over 2 yrs and have not found any surprises.

I saw lots of pictures, all logs, talked to the a&p who had been maintaining it, researched the owner and previous owner...but I didn't get a pre-buy. Turns out it would have been a waste of time and money. I would never recommend anyone not get a pre-buy. I believe mine was a unique situation in that I was able to talk to all the different people with knowledge of the plane. No regrets.
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I didn’t do a pre buy either, but worked out for me, might or might not work out. I do not advocate not doing pre buy
 
You can do it fairly safely IF.
1. You have someone you TRUST check the plane out. That excludes any mechanics at that planes airport.
2. It is in really good shape (some planes are and they are easy to inspect). Usually newer aircraft.
3. You find someone to ferry it to you.

Still, how are you going to find time for airplane ownership if you cant even find time to go look at it? I mean its 3 days!
Take a day off and a weekend and go look at it!

Hire an aircraft title company to do a title search. Then upon receipt of the Bill of Sale and the other paperwork wire the money to the buyers checking account from your checking account. Any bank can wire transfer. But again, you have to have someone you TRUST to receive the documents. I'm not impressed with ANY of the Title Companies financial status to escrow, but people do it. I did it and it worked. Talk to the aircraft title company about how to do all the mechanics. Oh, and insurance. Get it covered for the ferry flight (it will be usually but tell them thats what you want covered). Good luck!
 
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WannFly said:
I didn’t do a pre buy either, but worked out for me, might or might not work out. I do not advocate not doing pre buy
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Yes, I agree, I don't recommend doing it the way I did either. I'm lucky in life, married way up, and I just didn't see this not working out. Don't try this at home.
 
Use a bank...they will set up the escrow account and handle the transfers. You still will need a mechanic to look it over and be sure you're getting an airworthy aircraft.

I bought my last aircraft sight unseen. I had lots of pics, PDFs of the logs....and I called and spoke with the last couple years worth of A&Ps that had sign-offs in the logbooks.
 
I know a guy who bought a Citation sight unseen without any prebuy at all except a title search. I tried to talk some sense into him, but noooo. He was not a friend by any means, but we had friends in common.

Depending on where you live, you may have seen his mug in TV ads or on billboards.

"For the people"
 
coloradobluesky said:
You can do it fairly safely IF.
1. You have someone you TRUST check the plane out. That excludes any mechanics at that planes airport.
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This is the key.

I have purchased two airplanes (my Baron and then my Beech 18) both sight unseen. But in both cases I had A&P IAs that I trusted (Not neutral shops, but people I actually knew) do prebuys before I actually closed on the planes.
 
Ravioli said:
Something about this statement and buying a plane sounds fishy.
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Why? Lots of us have had trouble finding time to get away when the airplane we wanted came on the market and it was on the other side of the country. Doesn’t automatically mean the person buying it won’t have more time a few months later to fly it.
 
I’ve heard plenty of success stories as well as horror stories as a result of buying sight unseen. I personally would prefer not to do it as I’m a bit risk adverse but there may be cases where I’d roll the dice. Just depends.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Why? Lots of us have had trouble finding time to get away when the airplane we wanted came on the market and it was on the other side of the country. Doesn’t automatically mean the person buying it won’t have more time a few months later to fly it.
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Perhaps. But the concept of a burning hot airplane deal that must be done sight unseen is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

He can tell us if he's got a pristine Staggerwing for $200k or some other exceptional no miss option.
 
Buying an airplane without seeing it??

Go for it, if you are financially able to tolerate the risk.
I see no objections (you know what the possibilities are); it is done a lot.
 
Ravioli said:
Perhaps. But the concept of a burning hot airplane deal that must be done sight unseen is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

He can tell us if he's got a pristine Staggerwing for $200k or some other exceptional no miss option.
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ya but....would you pay $63k for this ....sight unseen? I did....best thing I've done in a while.
 
Buying sight unseen, and only being ferried after the purchase. I wouldn’t do it. If i couldn’t travel, I would find someone I trust to go see it. Get pictures, send them to you.
 
TommyG said:
Buying sight unseen, and only being ferried after the purchase. I wouldn’t do it. If i couldn’t travel, I would find someone I trust to go see it. Get pictures, send them to you.
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I think that's what they're talking about. I don't think it's totally sight unseen. Just them not personally seeing it. It's done all the time.
 
199?ish, 2623V Was setting back lot of OKH. called the owner "is it for sale" - "yes" - How much" $10k,- "I'll give you $5k"- 7500 its yours. wrote him a check. Worked on it 2 years before I flew it.

1996 (+-) 2801C Called on an ad in TAP, owner told me his price, I wrote him a check, he held the aircraft until the money cleared, he called and said he had a bill of sale for me, I flew the aircraft home.

1999, I was looking for a project, a friend told me about a F-24 that needed a restoration. I called the owner, talked a bit, and he said he would hold my check until I saw the Fairchild, we flew to Parkersburg Wv. and flew the Fairchild home, worked on it 11 years before I flew it.

Know your seller
 
First time i flew my Grumman was when the ferry pilot dropped it off. I had paid in full.
I did a lot of homework on the thing and had a lot of trust in the seller.

It worked out for me.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
ya but....would you pay $63k for this ....sight unseen? I did....best thing I've done in a while.
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well yeah thats a layup at that price. its worth buying even with known belated mx since youre still far ahead depending on what avionics came with it.

thats the weird thing about this board. if one came in here knowing nothing about airplanes youd walk away with the idea the only legitimate way not to lose your house and home is by spending a minimim of 100Amu on any HP piston airplane, or not even bothering. and yet, everybody giving you that advice got their rocketship by essentially stealing or inheriting it. :rolleyes:

thats why theres no airplane out there im not willing to low ball. likewise, theres no dented airplane im not willing to consider either. its like an ecosystem, theres birds of flock, birds of prey, but theres also birds of scavenge. we all have a role to play in this ecosystem :D
 
You guys getting pre buy inspections, don't think that will eliminate surprises. There's a guy on the Piper Forum right now that thought he got a thorough pre buy inspection. His plane has been in the shop for over a month now getting new wing and stabilator skins and is $thousands and $thousands into it so far. He now considers the pre buy inspection he got a complete waste of time, energy, and money. I would say using a neutral a&p can be just as risky as not getting an inspection at all. If you want an inspection, use someone you know that you will be dealing with in the future if at all possible. If you get a pre buy from a neutral guy 1/2 way across the country that knows you will never be back, what's his incentive to do a thorough inspection?

Be careful.
 
2Airtime2 said:
You guys getting pre buy inspections, don't think that will eliminate surprises. There's a guy on the Piper Forum right now that thought he got a thorough pre buy inspection. His plane has been in the shop for over a month now getting new wing and stabilator skins and is $thousands and $thousands into it so far.

Be careful.
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That’s why you have to have the inspection done by someone you know/trust.

And even then, there is always that chance of getting surprises, even if you go and see the plane yourself.
 
I bought mine sight unseen when I had 8 hrs TT. Lots of pics & PDFs. Wired deposit, sent my CFI to pick it up. He flew it around the pattern, it checked out, then waited on the ground while I wired the balance. Then he flew it 6 hrs home. 3 yrs and 500 hrs later, the only xtra MX has been a new tach.
 
I’ve bought three site unseen, in 1996 I bought a 441 from Howard Van Bortel, he sent it to West Star for an inspection and I paid them to install a KLN90B! I went to Flight Safety in Wichita and they dropped it off on the last day of my initial training. Great airplane! Next was a 551, I had one of Howard’s guys look at it at a Citation Service Center, first time I saw it, I already owned it. Finally, I bought a 414A that was in the paint and interior shop in Texas, it belonged to one of the owners of Air Impressions, again no issues. I’ve been fortunate to have dealt with people that were trustworthy and I knew the history on 2 of the planes.
 
Bought the Velocity site unseen. Being out of the country made seeing it in person impossible. Since Velocity did the condition insp and was selling it, I decided the risk was minimal. They accepted a 10K personal check to hold it and the rest was paid with a certified cashiers check on pick up.
 
Kitfox43 said:
Have looked at pictures, logs, etc. Will have a shop do a pre purchase, current owner is willing to ferry airplane to my location, but won't do so, till aircraft sale has taken place. Do due current circumstances, I'm unable to travel right now. What's the best way to transfer funds and ownership? Anyone every done this before? Good or bad idea?
Click to expand...

If you can't go see it yourself, consider hiring an instructor who knows that particular model inside and out, and have him or her go and give it a thorough ground and flight check. I bought my Cirrus site unseen, but (a) it was still under warranty, and (b) I hired a former Cirrus factory training pilot to check all the systems were functioning, flight test it to check the autopilot, rigging and so forth, and download the engine monitor data after running some in-flight engine checks. I also used a different Cirrus service center to do the pre-buy - not someone used by the seller.
 
Ravioli said:
Perhaps. But the concept of a burning hot airplane deal that must be done sight unseen is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

He can tell us if he's got a pristine Staggerwing for $200k or some other exceptional no miss option.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If you are offered a pristine Staggerwing for 200k, stay away from that. This is a great example of 'getting what you pay for'. It is safe to assume that the planes we see for sale have already been picked through by experts who know a good deal when they see one.
 
I believe the most important thing any buyer can do is learn every thing there is to know about the make and model of the aircraft they are buying.
 
The only person I can think of who did this performed a complete restoration on the aircraft afterwards (I think it was planned from the start).
 
I just bought a Cherokee 6 300 without having seen it. Frankly, had I seen it... I doubt I would have noticed anything that would have made me think of buying it or not. I'm not all that well versed in the mechanics of things. Enough to know how things work, not enough to notice "Hey, that's starting to fail!" I figure the best thing I can do, whether the plane is local or far away, is hire a really good mechanic to do a pre-buy inspection and look over the plane and find everything that could possibly be wrong with it. The guy I hired was FANTASTIC and found tons of problems. I feel like I knew exactly what I was getting into and made the appropriate financial decisions, alterations to the deal to accomodate what the mechanic found, etc.

The plane doesn't arrive here until Saturday, and I don't even start flying it until Sunday, so I can't tell you how it will turn out just yet, but right now? I'm pretty confident I know what I'm getting into with this thing. But as with all things, we'll see. :p

EDIT: Also: The plane was being flown regularly. Like every single day for multiple hours. That also made me feel good about it. Were the plane not being flown much, I'd want to make sure it got a flight check by someone I could trust first. Like others have suggested, an instructor or something.
 
hindsight2020 said:
thats the weird thing about this board. if one came in here knowing nothing about airplanes youd walk away with the idea the only legitimate way not to lose your house and home is by spending a minimim of 100Amu on any HP piston airplane, or not even bothering. and yet, everybody giving you that advice got their rocketship by essentially stealing or inheriting it. :rolleyes:
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I wouldn't spend $100K on all HP pistons, and didn't steal or inherit mine... granted I joined a working co-ownership who laid open their books and their logs and even was open to a pre-buy if I'd have wanted one, but ended up satisfied after talking to them about maintenance philosophy and looking at the logs and condition of the aircraft... locally... where I could really look myself.

I'm not sure where you get this idea that a majority here think that way... but then again, those of us buying and dealing locally typically don't want/need advice from a message board... we may even know the other owner personally, or know folks who have flown the thing, etc...

When you're after something that's rare enough in your local area that your search has to stretch out, then you get the online posts and nervousness from the buyers and the frustrations of the sellers who are annoyed with all the phone calls from "tire kickers"... just the way it goes.
 
Purchased a pitts without seeing it. Had the ferry pilot do a complete annual on it then fly it from Kansas to Califronia in the winter. Ferry pilot was an A&P IA. For payment I just mailed the guy a check. I did see pictures and logbooks prior. Worked out great no regrets.
 
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