Brokers...why are most of them so ignorant!

[frfly172]

It’s to bad you have such a distaste for brokers.A good broker can preform ,many of the tedious functions ,when either buying or selling. It’s easier to get a flight ,if you develop a relationship with the broker. Or you can use an aircraft dealer .

 

[flyingcheesehead]

@Aaron H, a contract doesn't necessarily mean you're buying the plane. Take a look at AOPA's sample purchase contract as a good example. Generally, the contract is signed, a certain amount of deposit money changes hands which may or may not be refundable to demonstrate that you have skin in the game. Generally, at that point the plane is taken off the market for the duration of the pre-buy process. Once the pre-buy is done, the price is finalized, the full amount changes hands, and then the actual sale paperwork is signed.

"Under contract" doesn't mean you've actually bought the plane yet - If something is found on the test flight or on the pre-buy and the seller and buyer can't come to an agreement as to how to handle it, the contract will specify how it is to be terminated. Depending on the previously agreed terms, the deposit may or may not be returned.

I agree if I asked to fly far, however I specifically asked if he could fly me around the pattern. If you can't afford to fly a potential buyer around the pattern, you shouldn't be in the business (my opinion).

It's not about affording it. It's about the likelihood of return on that investment. Also, the broker does not own the airplane. It's someone else's airplane. There are insurance considerations involved as well. Think about this: If you owned an airplane and were trying to sell it, how many times would you want the broker and a stranger to be flying YOUR airplane if the buyer wasn't serious?

My time has been in an o-360 172 and this one was a o-300 172. Wanted to see how much different the motor are.

Which is to say, you weren't interested in that particular plane, you were interested in O-300 vs. O-360. That's why they didn't want to take you for a flight, especially if you didn't demonstrate beforehand that you were serious about buying that particular airplane if the flight went well. If you were saying that you were curious about the O-300 vs O-360, I probably wouldn't have given you a ride either.

Have you entered into a contract without flying the plane first?

I've been part of buying four airplanes. I've flown every one of them before purchase (well, one of them I had @vontresc fly) but I honestly can't remember where we were with the paperwork at the point the test flight took place. However, in 3 of the 4 cases I had traveled a great distance to look at the planes, and in all cases had spent a couple hours looking through maintenance logs before ever flying the plane.

 

[3393RP]

If you can't afford to fly a potential buyer around the pattern, you shouldn't be in the business (my opinion).

My time has been in an o-360 172 and this one was a o-300 172. Wanted to see how much different the motor are.

So an aircraft owner or his broker should be on the hook for an unlimited amount of test flights? Everyone that calls gets a ride, without any type of commitment at all?

That's ridiculous, especially in your case. You're looking for a ride to satisfy a curiosity, not an interest in that particular aircraft.

It seems reasonable to me that if a buyer wants to fly an aircraft that's for sale, there should be an adult conversation that goes something like "Now that I've examined the aircraft and log books, I'm interested in making an offer."

"I understand the owner might have reservations about test flights, so how can we make this happen? I can confirm my insurance will cover me, I can also pay a reasonable amount for fuel and other considerations. Is this acceptable?"

Sounds a lot more responsible and accommodating than than a phone call saying "I won't decide to buy it unless I can fly it". The broker doesn't owe you squat, you're just a guy on the telephone.

Unless you actually exhibit a real interest in the aircraft by asking about its history, how often it's been flown, perform at least a cursory inspection, and ask to examine the log books, the broker accurately determines you aren't a real buyer.

If you were a real buyer, you would do those things before asking to fly it. Otherwise the broker will inform you he has some paperwork to do and needs to clean off his desk, because you're wasting his time.

There's a reason he hung up on you, and it wasn't because of a deficiency in his knowledge or methods.

 

[3393RP]

He was just so ignorant. I have 110hrs in a o-360 172 and 0 hrs in a o-300 172 and wanted to see how they compared.

This is the second one that I have asked to take me around the pattern in 8 months. The first one took me out in 2 different planes for a total of an hour. Never asked for a dime and never pressured about any contract.

Maybe I'm naive and people fly planes for sale all the time just for a flight?

You answered your own question. You apparently had no intention to even consider buying the 172 with an 0-300. You just wanted to fly the airplane. The broker, this not being his first rodeo, determined that fact and decided he didn't want to bother with you.

The second broker was hopeful you actually wanted to buy a plane, and took the better part of a day to fly you around in not one, but two different aircraft which you had no intention of purchasing. He's now a bit more jaded and less likely to repeat that effort because of you, and so now he's going to be another ignorant broker to the next guy.

Yes, people ask to fly planes that are for sale just to get a flight. That's what you did.

 

[tawood]

Seems in the current market, if you see a plane that fits your criteria, budget, and is a good deal, you should probably put some sort of agreement in place pretty quick or it won't be around. Get the ride later.
Like the others have said, just leave yourself plenty of room to back out if it doesn't live up to expectations.



Says the detective

I'll take a ride for sale or not

I'll do you one better Nate: you can fly (left seat), not just ride, my plane next time we meet up.

 

[Skyrys62]

I'll do you one better Nate: you can fly (left seat), not just ride, my plane next time we meet up.

Probably on our way to French Lick from Rough River