Bought a 500 gal Fuel Trailer filled with 5 y/o 100LL - Maintenance advice

Narwhal

Narwhal

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So I bought a 500 gallon avgas trailer. It also came with about 250 gallons of 5 year old 100LL.

Any thoughts or ideas about using the 5 y/o 100LL? I assume I should change the pump filters filters right away (the internal element for the glass cap filter along with the big white canister filter)?

It has a sump on the back through which I can drain some fuel to check it.

The pump and nozzle seem to work fine and intial drain looks and smells like any other 100LL.

Only problem is the hose reel is not working, either due to the massive corrosion on the motor housing/in the motor or some kind of degredation of the hose reel's wiring. The lever switch to turn on the reel's power definitely doesn't have a positve feeling on/off like the fuel pump's power. The hand crank won't work either as the chain is pretty well rusted. Tried soaking everything in KROIL for a few days but no help. In the meantime I can just pull the hose around by hand.

I don't think the trailer is roadworthy (no brakes, lights) but there is a company that will deliver 100LL off a tanker for about the same price as at the local public airport. Plus I think you're supposed to have some kind of hazmat license to carry around more than 100 gallons or so of fuel storage on the public roads, but IDK.

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I would not. Avgas loses its volatility and begins to gum over time. What happens is, the insoluble polymers in the fuel form by reacting with air and it starts getting sticky. Being that it’s just half full, means there’s plenty of air inside that tank to degrade the fuel. The tank needs to be flushed and inspected and the filters need changing.
 
Narwhal said:
Plus I think you're supposed to have some kind of hazmat license to carry around more than 100 gallons or of fuel storage on the public roads, but IDK.
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Put floats and an engine/prop on it and call it an airboat. Then it's fuel in the tank of an appliance, not storage. Just kidding, but that loophole might exist.
 
As much as I love experimenting in all things aviation (my inclination while first reading your post was left tank old fuel, right tank new), I'd probably put best reasonable efforts forward to make the fuel usable, and then run it in land based motors that can handle it. Starting with the least desired motor, 'natch.
 
As a student I'm also fascinated to see the strange problems people end up with.
 
Also, does anyone think the filters are in the wrong order? It has a 0.5 micron Parker/Velcon ACO-40901SPP spin-on filter closest to the pump then a 12 micron wix 24390 cartridge filter downstream. Shouldn't the fuel flow through the filter with the larger micron rating first?

Edited to add: not only that but the 0.5 micron filter bracket was installed with the direction of flow arrow pointing the wrong way! Time to dust off the pipe wrench.
 
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Narwhal said:
Also, does anyone think the filters are in the wrong order? It has a 0.5 micron Parker/Velcon ACO-40901SPP spin-on filter closest to the pump then a 12 micron wix 24390 cartridge filter downstream. Shouldn't the fuel flow through the filter with the larger micron rating first?

Edited to add: not only that but the 0.5 micron filter bracket was installed with the direction of flow arrow pointing the wrong way! Time to dust off the pipe wrench.
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Is that for fuel going into the tank?
 
Crappy electrical work as well. Conduit bodies (except in the rare times they are stamped with a volume) should not be used to make connections. In any event, it should have a cover.
 
flyingron said:
Crappy electrical work as well. Conduit bodies (except in the rare times they are stamped with a volume) should not be used to make connections. In any event, it should have a cover.
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It does, I removed the covers for the photos to display the crappiness. Or do you mean a canopy for the entire thing?
 
Meh.....100LL lasts a long time. I'd probably try the left tank with good stuff and right with the old....go fly and see what my engine does on the engine monitor after switching.....run at 65% when switching.....then if there's nothing interesting.....up the power and see if things stay the same. If I got CHTs rising too much I'd probably not use it.

It really depends on what engine you're running....many of our engines don't need 100LL and will run fine with a lower octane.
 
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Narwhal said:
The hand crank won't work either as the chain is pretty well rusted. Tried soaking everything in KROIL for a few days but no help.
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Maybe it will loosen up if you heat it with a torch? :idea:
 
I like the lawn mower idea, except your profile says you are in alaska, which means your lawn has like a six week growing season. So maybe snow machines.

I would definitely be using this in non-critical engines in any case. Change your oil and clean your plugs halfway through and again at the end.

Otherwise, you're doing what I would. Change the filters. Clean things up. Penetrating oil until the hose reel submits, though it doesn't look especially corroded, so there may be another issue there. Mechanical lock? Motor lock? Cut the problem in half by removing the drive motor and see if you can move it.
 
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If you have any vehicles without catalytic converters, it'd be a great place to use the fuel. You might be able to sell it to some hot rodders/drag strip guys who don't like E85.
 
Put 200 gallons of fresh fuel in it and fly. Or after adding the fresh fuel hold a fly in with half off gas. What engine do you have. You could add non ethanol boat gas and end up with about 93-95 octane. Even if you decided to use in lawnmowers I would mix it down. That's a lot of lead for engines not designed for it. I don't remember exactly, but I believe the old 80/87 only had about 1/4 the lead of 100 LL, or that could have been the green 100/130.
 
Mikey52 said:
Put 200 gallons of fresh fuel in it and fly. Or after adding the fresh fuel hold a fly in with half off gas. What engine do you have. You could add non ethanol boat gas and end up with about 93-95 octane. Even if you decided to use in lawnmowers I would mix it down. That's a lot of lead for engines not designed for it. I don't remember exactly, but I believe the old 80/87 only had about 1/4 the lead of 100 LL, or that could have been the green 100/130.
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I run it in my tow tractor....with no issues.
 

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I’d cut it 50/50 or 75/25 fresh 100LL mix to what’s in the tank and fly. Do it on one side (tank) first time just to be sure.
 
Narwhal said:
but there is a company that will deliver 100LL off a tanker for about the same price as at the local public airport.
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Is that $2000 quote from the distributer you mentioned above or did you cold call a lab? My local distributor would test AVGAS samples in-house for less than $100.
 
Bell206 said:
Is that $2000 quote from the distributer you mentioned above or did you cold call a lab? My local distributor would test AVGAS samples in-house for less than $100.
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I asked the distributor how to get it tested and they gave me the number to this lab. At first when I called, the lab seemed taken aback that some guy would want a fuel test and didn’t know how much it would cost. Then they called me back 2 days later with the $2k. Seems they’re geared toward commercial/institutional testing.

I did get a $15 water test kit from the local fuel supply store through which I’m rebuilding the filtration system.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Meh.....100LL lasts a long time. I'd probably try the left tank with good stuff and right with the old....go fly and see what my engine does on the engine monitor after switching.....run at 65% when switching.....then if there's nothing interesting.....up the power and see if things stay the same. If I got CHTs rising too much I'd probably not use it.

It really depends on what engine you're running....many of our engines don't need 100LL and will run fine with a lower octane.
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Experimental Lycoming IO-360 9:1.
 
Narwhal said:
I asked the distributor how to get it tested and they gave me the number to this lab.
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Don't blame them but BS answer. Perhaps give Blackstone a call as they test gasoline and diesel also. You should be able to get it checked for a lot less.
 
Gas degrades slower at lower temperatures, so Alaska is a bonus.

I use 100 ll in my emergency generator, and replace it every 5 or 6 years. I test run it in the spring and fall, with no problems.

When I replace it, the old is used in my lawn mower for the next 2 or 3 years. No trouble there either.

Aviation fuel is made to a formula that is much more stable than even pre alcohol auto gas, and should be good for a long time stored in a cool place.
 
If you're going to use it in non-aviation engines, something to keep in mind is that the additives in modern synthetic and semi-synthetic oils are not compatible with leaded fuels, or so I'm told.
You should do a bit of research to confirm/deny that before using it. Or play it safe and use mineral oil.
 
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geezer said:
Aviation fuel is made to a formula that is much more stable than even pre alcohol auto gas, and should be good for a long time stored in a cool place.
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Exactly. The main issue with AVGAS is its volatility or vapor pressure which can degrade over time in storage. From a guidance standpoint, AVGAS in a properly sealed container has a recommended shelf life of 2 years. But they've been storing that fuel for years in remote, off-grid locations for longer periods with minimal issues.
 
Narwhal said:
I asked the distributor how to get it tested and they gave me the number to this lab. At first when I called, the lab seemed taken aback that some guy would want a fuel test and didn’t know how much it would cost. Then they called me back 2 days later with the $2k. Seems they’re geared toward commercial/institutional testing.
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Yeah, there is basically a 100% chance that $2k tests are available, are what is used for fuel farms and cover way more than what you need both in terms of what's tested and liability.
 
Can't comment on the trailer, but as far as the gas goes, maybe find somebody that does local dirt track racing and ask if they want some 100 octane leaded fuel. They might love it, and if times haven't changed some of those folks blend their own mixes so it wouldn't be all that weird to them.
 
I’d top it with fresh fuel and use it. It’ll work just fine. 100LL is exceptionally stable in storage. My own tank’s fuel is almost as old. I don’t hesitate using it in my 10-1 IO-390 or my 0-520. If you’re concerned? Stay local or in the pattern and watch your gauges until you’re satisfied it’s okay.

No hazmat regs for a private operator. I know lots of guys who have fuel trailers and none have ever had any problem. Are you still at Merrill? Don’t they prohibit self-fueling equipment there?
 
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Albany Tom said:
maybe find somebody that does local dirt track racing and ask if they want some 100 octane leaded fuel. They might love it,
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Just FYI, av gas is not race gas. Aviation fuel is rated with the performance octane method, not R+M/2 method. 100LL does have Tetraethyl lead, but av gas is designed to run in an engine that runs at a constant rpm, usually under 3500 rpm, not on and off hard acceleration seen in race engines.

Now with true race gas it is possible to over octane a engine. Lower octane 100LL might work in those engines not requiring a true 104 octane race gas. Av gas would work in older snow machines and 4 wheelers that do not have electronic fuel injection and catalytic converters .

I know, folks have used av gas in race cars for years, but those were lower compression engines with retarded timing. It took me years to convince folks that av gas is not designed for the higher compression and higher rpm's of more modern race engines.
 
Stewartb said:
I’d top it with fresh fuel and use it. It’ll work just fine. 100LL is exceptionally stable in storage. My own tank’s fuel is almost as old. I don’t hesitate using it in my 10-1 IO-390 or my 0-520. If you’re concerned? Stay local or in the pattern and watch your gauges until you’re satisfied it’s okay.

No hazmat regs for a private operator. I know lots of guys who have fuel trailers and none have ever had any problem. Are you still at Merrill? Don’t they prohibit self-fueling equipment there?
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Nah I bought a place at one of the airparks on the southside of town, so no issues with Merrill rules anymore. This tank came with the house. When I had my 182B at Merrill we bought the Petersen STC and used to top it off with 5 gallon bags of Mogas but qucikly realized that was more painful than it was worth in $, especially in winter with slipping potential. No one ever said anything but maybe we just didn't get caught. WIth the ~80 gallons that thing held even if you were into weight lifting it wasn't a lot of fun.
 
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Narwhal said:
Apparently there is only 1 lab that does that does that testing up here and they quoted me $2000, believe it or not, which exceeds the value of the 250 gals.
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That sounds like a “go away” price
 
Narwhal said:
Nah I bought a place at one of the airparks on the southside of town, so no issues with Merrill rules anymore. This tank came with the house. When I had my 182B at Merrill we bought the Petersen STC and used to top it off with 5 gallon bags of Mogas but qucikly realized that was more painful than it was worth in $, especially in winter with slipping potential. No one ever said anything but maybe we just didn't get caught. WIth the ~80 gallons that thing held even if you were into weight lifting it wasn't a lot of fun.
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As for towing? Why bother? Get Shoreside to fill it at your house. They probably fill other tanks in the neighborhood.
 
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