BOEING 767F crash near Houston in the bay Atlas cargo

Tantalum said:
^they also build toaster ovens, refrigerators, MRI machines, and nuclear reactors for submarines
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Actually, they sold off the appliance division (though someone can use the name for a while.)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
There are three major companies that produce turbine engines for big airliners.

If you look at their logos, one looks like a meatball. Hint: It doesn't have an eagle or the letter R in it. ;)
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Darn thing stares me in the face eight hours a day, too.
 
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Tantalum said:
^they also build toaster ovens, refrigerators, MRI machines, and nuclear reactors for submarines
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Shortly after starting working at Meatball Aviation my son was born.

It was pretty neat seeing the Meatball-brand machines in the hospital. One thing I enjoyed about working there is that I think you could describe them as a company that makes things that matter.
 
Well that clears it up. But if that's what a meatball looks like to you... well I'd probably avoid any restaurant you said had good food. o_O
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Well that clears it up. But if that's what a meatball looks like to you... well I'd probably avoid any restaurant you said had good food. o_O
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It was an internal nickname for the logo.
 
The classic Boeing logo (vertical name with wings) is referred to internally as the Boeing Bug...

Ron Wanttaja
 
Back in the dark (70’s) ages, there was a fetish in some circles for engine health monitors. The monitor hucksters kept peddling recording everything and anything on USAF Engines. Since I was the primary gatekeeper, I would always ask, what are we supposed to do with these miles and miles of recording tape? Nobody could answer me sensibly so I then said just because something can be recorded doesn’t mean it should be recorded.

After about 20 years of this, the engine OEM’s and health monitor cultists finally developed a rational and economic approach. The discussions about FDR/CVR real time tracking sounds very familiar. If there’s a system that makes economic sense, it will happened (if the lawyers don’t get in the way).

Cheers
 
Tide has been blown out by a cold front...picture of the debris field from a distance from a guy with a fish camp just down from the crash sight...
 

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Warlock said:
Tide has been blown out by a cold front...picture of the debris field from a distance from a guy with a fish camp just down from the crash sight...
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Seems like now would be an excellent time to collect the rest of the pieces...
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Except there's nothing to walk on, and it's likely that as much or more that shows is also under the mud.
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There won't be anything to walk on when it's covered in water either, and it'll be a lot harder to see stuff, and it will start moving again...

I'm just glad they found the boxes. That will go a long way towards determining the cause.
 
I suppose now that they retrieved the FDR and CVR and know where the majority of the debris field is, some sort of dredging barge might be able to go in at high tide and start scooping.

I don't know what kind of depth that area is at high tide, or what a barge like that needs, but at this point I don't know that it needs to be a delicate operation.
 
That's a awfully small debris field for a 767. The mud has swallowed almost the entire aircraft.

I hate that those guys had to ride it down. May they rest easy.
 
Zeldman said:
Absolutely terrifying to think what was going through their minds as they watched the ground coming.
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Yeah. :( At least they probably didn't have to think about it for long, and it's a painless way to go. I've heard that in such situations the brain may actually just shut itself down - You may not have to be conscious all the way to contact. Even if you were, your body and brain would be turned to mush so fast that anything resembling "pain" signals would never get to its destination.
 
Zeldman said:
Absolutely terrifying to think what was going through their minds as they watched the ground coming.
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My worst nightmare as a pilot. Trapped in an out of control aircraft waiting for the ground to come up and smite you.
 
Zeldman said:
Absolutely terrifying to think what was going through their minds as they watched the ground coming.
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Had it happen once. Obviously got control back before I hit in my case. Wind shear from a thunder storm while towing a banner over the water @ 400'. Flying slow with all that drag on the tail, having a wing get stalled on you wasn't unusual in bumpy air. Happened all the time. Shot of power and pick the dropped wing up with your feet and it would generally get flying again quickly with little to no altitude loss. But in this case the wind shear stalled both wings, nose dropped hard and the ocean was coming at me fast. Full power wasn't getting it flying again. Definitely thought I was going in the water nose first. She started flying again about 150' or so, but being in a dive with the banner now above you means the nose doesn't come up as quickly. I was under 50' before I got it level and climbing again.

Nice thing is when it happens at 400' you really don't have time to get scared. A couple seconds of 'crap I'm gonna die' and then a few hours of 'well that sucked'.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Had it happen once. Obviously got control back before I hit in my case. Wind shear from a thunder storm while towing a banner over the water @ 400'. Flying slow with all that drag on the tail, having a wing get stalled on you wasn't unusual in bumpy air. Happened all the time. Shot of power and pick the dropped wing up with your feet and it would generally get flying again quickly with little to no altitude loss. But in this case the wind shear stalled both wings, nose dropped hard and the ocean was coming at me fast. Full power wasn't getting it flying again. Definitely thought I was going in the water nose first. She started flying again about 150' or so, but being in a dive with the banner now above you means the nose doesn't come up as quickly. I was under 50' before I got it level and climbing again.

Nice thing is when it happens at 400' you really don't have time to get scared. A couple seconds of 'crap I'm gonna die' and then a few hours of 'well that sucked'.
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You didn't consider ditching the banner?
 
Kenny Phillips said:
You didn't consider ditching the banner?
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Nope. Having a wing stall was common so you don't really consider dumping the banner the moment it happens. By the time you realize the correcting inputs aren't working as they normally do, there really isn't much time left to get your hand off the throttle, bend down, find the right release handle (that plane had 3) and pull it. You could try I suppose. But IMO nose down in a stall with the water coming at you fast is not when you want to go heads down trying to make sure you get your hand on the center release handle instead of the one on the left or the right. Better to focus your attention on trying to get it flying again at that point IMO.
 
midwestpa24 said:
My worst nightmare as a pilot. Trapped in an out of control aircraft waiting for the ground to come up and smite you.
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I recall reading something written by an accident investigator who had listened to dozens of flight recordings of accidents and near accidents. What he said he heard on most of them was resignation, that they had done everything they could, but none of it had worked and now they were going to crash.
 
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Cooter said:
Have had that dream many times.
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Here's hoping this dream does not come true.

midwestpa24 said:
My worst nightmare as a pilot. Trapped in an out of control aircraft waiting for the ground to come up and smite you.
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Juliet Hotel said:
Nice thing is when it happens at 400' you really don't have time to get scared. A couple seconds of 'crap I'm gonna die' and then a few hours of 'well that sucked'.
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One time I had a CH-47 cross the runway in front of me as I crossed the numbers. During the evasive actions I got caught in the rotor wash, and the rodeo was on. I was looking at different points on the ground thinking this is where we will hit, but by sheer luck I kept the plane flying. I never gave up. I think it all happened at 50 feet off the ground.

FormerHangie said:
I recall reading something written by an accident investigator who had listened to dozens of flight recordings of accidents and near accidents. What he said he head on most of them was resignation., that they had done everything they could, but none of it had worked and now they were going to crash.
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I don't listen to the CVRs anymore. I listened to one and I knew the FO. You could hear both pilots talking through emergency procedures until they broke out of the clouds, then silence and a few moments before the sound of the impact someone said, "We are going to die now".
 
Zeldman said:
One time I had a CH-47 cross the runway in front of me as I crossed the numbers. During the evasive actions I got caught in the rotor wash, and the rodeo was on. I was looking at different points on the ground thinking this is where we will hit, but by sheer luck I kept the plane flying. I never gave up. I think it all happened at 50 feet off the ground.
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If I ever crash, know that I'll be fighting the damn thing to the ground.

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Cooter said:
Have had that dream many times.
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Its a rough dream... auguring it in... usually wake up right before impact. The other one I have is driving way too fast on a mountain road and going right off the cliff. Again, wake up before auguring it in. Lets keep those things in the dream world.
 
TipTanks said:
Its a rough dream... auguring it in... usually wake up right before impact. The other one I have is driving way too fast on a mountain road and going right off the cliff. Again, wake up before auguring it in. Lets keep those things in the dream world.
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The recurring thing for me is being behind the controls of a vehicle (car, motorcycle, airplane) and it not doing what I'm telling it to. Which is the opposite of what I'm used to - I usually pretty well at telling vehicles exactly what to do and have them do it.
 
Yep, that is the root of it for me as well.
 
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