Boats, Planes, and Taxes

midwestpa24 said:
I live near a popular resort type lake and am also on the fire department. The lake has been absolutely crazy this year, with its share of incidents as well.

It has always amazed me that a boat is just about the only type of powered vehicle that has zero required training/licensing/insurance to operate.
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MD requires a boater safety card for anyone born after 1972. I believe that exempted anyone who was 18 when the requirement was passed. However you can get the card using an online course and knowledge retention seems to be variable.
 
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I bought my 95 Prostar 190 5 years ago for $7500.00 and felt like I stole it. I've been offered over $12K for it as it has just over 250 hours. I've been an avid slalom skier for years and really enjoy my boat. However, as a dedicated ski tug, it leaves a little to be desired when wanting a leisure day on the lake with family/friends. While I would just about give up a kidney for a new Super Air Nautique G23, no way could I ever justify the cost. $180K!! And it weighs 6000lbs. Holy cow that's a lot of boat. I guess I'll just keep slumming with the ol MC.
 
AA5Bman said:
Does anyone know if this applies to planes, or can be applied to planes? This is one of the things that keeps me from upgrading from my $90,000 plane to a $150,000 plane - a $10,000 tax bill. Would it require a “trade-in” through a dealership? Is there a way to coordinate a “trade-in” when the planes are not bought and sold at the same time, like the grace period on a 1031 exchange?
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Makes me think of Van Bortel, maybe they can do that.
 
weilke said:
MD requires a boater safety card for anyone born after 1972. I believe that was anyone who was 18 when the requirement was passed. However you can get the card using an online course and knowledge retention seems to be variable.
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In the manner typical to the way California legislates, boat owners are required to take a knowledge test regarding navigation rules, bouys, etc., and are issued a compliance card. It must be in the operater's possession at all times.

There is no regulation regarding education courses or licensing for renters of jet skis or boats.

But the weather is nice.
 
Dave Arata said:
I bought my 95 Prostar 190 5 years ago for $7500.00 and felt like I stole it. I've been offered over $12K for it as it has just over 250 hours. I've been an avid slalom skier for years and really enjoy my boat. However, as a dedicated ski tug, it leaves a little to be desired when wanting a leisure day on the lake with family/friends. While I would just about give up a kidney for a new Super Air Nautique G23, no way could I ever justify the cost. $180K!! And it weighs 6000lbs. Holy cow that's a lot of boat. I guess I'll just keep slumming with the ol MC.
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Well the layout of the Nautique is probably better since it's wider and likely had more seating being a v-drive, but it's still a purpose-built boat that tends to be less than stellar in choppy/rough water and is a fuel pig because it's always making a wake (albeit less of one if ballast tanks are emptied and wake gate is up). Just like your MC, they don't do shallow water or debris very well either, where outboard and I/O setups tend to shine. The new Volvo forward drives may be the best compromise between I/O and v-drive boats since it puts the props under the boat like a V-drive, but still has trim ability like an I/O.
 
[QUOTE="SoonerAviator, post: 2953876, member: 20765"The new Volvo forward drives may be the best compromise between I/O and v-drive boats since it puts the props under the boat like a V-drive, but still has trim ability like an I/O.[/QUOTE]
A coworker is looking at the new Chaparral Surf 23. That's the first I've seen of the Volvo/Penta forward drive. Looks interesting enough. First real "outside the box" thinking I've seen in a while. I like that they stuck the exhaust deeper in the water, as well. When I've surfed behind my boat, the exhaust was pretty terrible.
 
Dave Arata said:
A coworker is looking at the new Chaparral Surf 23. That's the first I've seen of the Volvo/Penta forward drive. Looks interesting enough. First real "outside the box" thinking I've seen in a while. I like that they stuck the exhaust deeper in the water, as well. When I've surfed behind my boat, the exhaust was pretty terrible.
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I owned a 190 ProStar for years, it was a good slalom boat. Be careful about surfing behind yours, the exhaust is dumped above the waterline and you are exposed to CO.

The new wake/surf boats discharge the exhaust below the waterline. That dissipates the exhaust and removes the danger.
 
Local bloke had a converted PT boat for his yacht... never saw it open up, but did see one off of Catalina Island once... wow!!!!! I was told it was used in a lot of movies.

images
 
dmcummins said:
it’s my fault. In April I bought a house on a canal with Gulf access. Last month I bought a boat. Hopefully next week I’ll get to start using it.

I live on the west coast of Florida and the boat was on the East coast. I started looking back in April and had pretty much decided what I wanted, a center console I can take offshore. As mentioned, boats were selling fast and I’m a little impatient, but I also had cash and ready to buy. I found the boat I wanted and my only requirement was to have the engines checked out, a friend and I had drove over and looked it over, but no sea trial.

I had planned on bringing the boat back by water, thru Okeechobee, but the mechanic didn’t recommend it, the trim seals need replaced and there were a few minor thing that he said needed to be addressed. So I go over and buy the boat anyway, and arrange to have the boat hauled over. First surprise was the $160 per day charge for the marina, plus $300 to load on a trailer.

Get the boat hauled over promptly, then I find out it’s going to take at least three weeks to get into the shop, and the 100 hr maintenance is around $1000 per engine. The minor things add up another couple thousand.

So far the boat is costing me quite a bit more than my Debonair. But it will be parked in my back yard if the dock contractor finishes up next week.

Its a 32’ Intrepid. Wish me luck, it’s my first Powerboat. I owned a 27’ sailboat about 15 years ago so it’s all new to me.
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learn to do the 100hr your shelf, its not that hard. the only bad part is the VRT filters, you have to pull the fuel rail and the intake manifold.(and the filters are expensive like 75 bucks) other than that, the yamaha's are bullet proof engines. I do recommend yearly pulling the injectors and having them professionally cleaned and flowed. i take mine to flagship marine in punta gorda. 40 bucks a injector day or so turn time. its worth it to not have an injector plug up on the water.
 
3393RP said:
In the manner typical to the way California legislates, boat owners are required to take a knowledge test regarding navigation rules, bouys, etc., and are issued a compliance card. It must be in the operater's possession at all times.

There is no regulation regarding education courses or licensing for renters of jet skis or boats.

But the weather is nice.
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As with most California laws I don't know anyone that complies with that.
 
OP here, well this has kind of taken off. As long as we’re at it and have put the discussion of taxes behind us - it looks like my state has no trade in credit system for aircraft anyway (grrrr!!) - anyone want to make some general suggestions about the kind of boat we should be looking at?

We are absolute complete noobs. Like embarrassingly so. Use-case (“mission”) is lake days in the mountains at relatively high elevation, potentially surfing or tubing, I guess, although we have no experience with either (well, tubing when we were kids, I suppose). We’re so green on this, you might even ask why we are considering a boat at all and to that I would respond “good question!” Remember it’s my wife who’s driving this one. I think it’s mostly to have something to contribute to our social group, who spends a lot of time on the water, and for a good reason to get the kids out of the house during the summer when it is roasting and the only thing worth doing is sitting in the AC. Budget - was originally $25,000. After last weekend’s shock it’s probably closer to $40,000 now. Would love some thoughts.
 
How many people will be on the boat, typically? One of the most popular boat these days that will do surf, wake, and skiing as well as hold up to 10 or so people is a jet boat like the Yamaha AR212, 230, 240, or 242. No props to worry about for surfing, can run in extremely shallow water, very much an idiot-proof design for new boats. Low maintenance as well.

Inboard-outboards are nice, but surfing can be dangerous as you could fall forward into the prop (unlikely but still a possibility). The Volvo forward drive we mentioned earlier is about the only design that eliminates that issue. However, the I/O is more fuel efficient and generally rides better due to the ability to trim the drive angle.

Outboards are probably a non-starter for your intended use.

Inboards like a v-drive are nice, but they tend to plow into waves and chop since they can't trim the drive angle, but they usually have excellent watersports characteristics for surf/wakeboarding. They are also ridiculously expensive for what they are.

Without knowing your exact needs, I'd guess that the Yamaha SX or AR lineup will fit the mission well without breaking the bank and get you into a fairly new boat (2010-2017) for under $40K.
 
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I celebrated my mid-life crisis years ago by building a 16' long wooden boat with a 40 hp Honda. Lots cheaper than a yellow Ferrari or a Mistress named Bubbles...
 
AA5Bman said:
OP here, well this has kind of taken off. As long as we’re at it and have put the discussion of taxes behind us - it looks like my state has no trade in credit system for aircraft anyway (grrrr!!) - anyone want to make some general suggestions about the kind of boat we should be looking at?

We are absolute complete noobs. Like embarrassingly so. Use-case (“mission”) is lake days in the mountains at relatively high elevation, potentially surfing or tubing, I guess, although we have no experience with either (well, tubing when we were kids, I suppose). We’re so green on this, you might even ask why we are considering a boat at all and to that I would respond “good question!” Remember it’s my wife who’s driving this one. I think it’s mostly to have something to contribute to our social group, who spends a lot of time on the water, and for a good reason to get the kids out of the house during the summer when it is roasting and the only thing worth doing is sitting in the AC. Budget - was originally $25,000. After last weekend’s shock it’s probably closer to $40,000 now. Would love some thoughts.
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Buy a Chaparral Sunesta. Chaparrals are great boats. This one is on Dallas Craigslist, $35,000 and only 85 hours. Has an aluminum trailer, no worries about rust. I'd jump all over that deal. New ones are $115K. It'll pull kids on tubes, skiers, and wakeboarders. You don't need a tower to learn how to wakeboard. Forget surfing. It's dumb.

I'll go look at it for you, I've been boating for 40+ years.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/boa/d/mckinney-2004-chaparral-254-sunesta-85/7162974616.html

I'm not a fan of Yamahas. They're not particularly robust and twins use a lot of fuel. Kinda like airplanes.

Edit: I looked a little closer at the ad. The registration numbers are 22 off from a Chaparral 256 I bought in 2004. :D
 
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Thanks for the recommendations, I’m looking into them now. We’re getting pushed toward a 2005 Mastercraft X10, which is basically the only used boat for sale in our area that seems like a reasonable fit for our use. Slim pickins’.
 
3393RP said:
Buy a Chaparral Sunesta. Chaparrals are great boats. This one is on Dallas Craigslist, $35,000 and only 85 hours. Has an aluminum trailer, no worries about rust. I'd jump all over that deal. New ones are $115K. It'll pull kids on tubes, skiers, and wakeboarders. You don't need a tower to learn how to wakeboard. Forget surfing. It's dumb.

I'll go look at it for you, I've been boating for 40+ years.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/boa/d/mckinney-2004-chaparral-254-sunesta-85/7162974616.html

I'm not a fan of Yamahas. They're not particularly robust and twins use a lot of fuel. Kinda like airplanes.

Edit: I looked a little closer at the ad. The registration numbers are 22 off from a Chaparral 256 I bought in 2004. :D
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The Chaps are decent boats, but I don't know what you mean by not robust on the Yamahas. They current models are on par with most other mid-level boats (Chaparral, Sea Ray, Four Winns, Regal) in terms of fit/finish and have a lot of interior layouts they pioneered in the early 2010's that other boat mfgs have tried to copy. I don't think the fuel mileage is as bad as you think it is, the reason being is that the Chap weighs about 600-700lbs more than a similarly sized Yamaha. A lot of that is in the powerplant/outdrive. I took a brief look at a Yamaha AR 232 and a Chapparal 244 from Boattest, the Yamaha (w/twin 160HP) had a best cruise mpg of 3.5 where the Chapp with a 380HP Volvo had 3.14, both at roughly 28mph. The difference is the extra weight. I think Chaps are good, solid boats, but there's a reason that the Yamaha AR lineup is the best-selling in the market (part of it is price). The only nit to pick on the Yamahas is usually that they seem noisier due to the engines spinning 5-7K rpm vs the 3000-4000rpm for the Chapp. It's not so much about decibels as it is the higher frequency.

If money is no object a Cobalt 242WSS or 24SDWSS with the Volvo forward-drive would be my choice, but you aren't touching one of those for $40K at this point in time. Maybe in 5 years.
 
No requirement for training or testing in NC if you are over 18. Makes it dicey on the lakes. Lots of drunks and idiots.
 
Being a multiple boat owner (Hunter sailboat and custom built 23ft mahogany runabout), I too am shocked by the prices of new wakeboarding boats. I’m even more blown away on how much tax money these “toys” generate. In my state boats have a nearly 11% sales tax rate and you pay property tax every year for the privilege of owning the boat. I cringe when I think about all the insurance I pay out too. Even after all of this, I have thoroughly enjoyed my sailboat during the COVID mess. The airplane has been rendered mostly useless and it’s been great to focus on grilling out on the sailboat (plus the Hunter doesn’t chug fuel at 13gph).
 
Texas at little less than 7 percent on sales tax on the original purchase and your done..zero on aircraft for the most part...I have a twin diesel custom 30 ft Sportfisherman and generally it’s less expensive in any given year then my PA 28...I can do most of the work myself on the boat...even with three engines if you include the generator.
 
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