Biggest learning / surprise from IFR checkride?

[nj-pilot]

I'm scheduled to take it on Saturday.

Think back to your own checkride. While I'm sure most of you made zero mistakes, for those that made any - what was your biggest learning (or perhaps biggest surprise) from the checkride?

 

[jordane93]

Plan on getting a hold, approach, procedure turn, etc you're not familiar with. Don't forget your timing and don't forget to identify your navaids.

 

[James331]

Shooting a ILS, circle to land, on final to the circling runway execute a missed on short final.

 

[PPC1052]

on final to the circling runway execute a missed on short final.

So, what do you do in this scenario? Some kind or procedure turn, or a climbing turn to the missed approach course?

 

[MAKG1]

My biggest surprise was getting the ILS at San Jose with a DC10 on my six.

No 90 knot approach there.

 

[Shawn]

what was your biggest learning (or perhaps biggest surprise) from the checkride?

My take away from the check ride was DO NOT verbalize and make a big deal outta any perceived mistakes, just make a correction and move on.

I made three mistakes that I thought could have easily been disqualifying. Corrected and kept flying and kept my mouth SHUT, DPE never said a peep and in the end he ultimately overall commended me during the debrief in the areas that I thought I had botched it.

 

[flyingron]

The only thing I found different or difficult on my checkride was the instructors way of introducing an unusual attitude. What he did was had me attempt to fly a series of manouvers with my eyes closed. I can tell you NOT looking at the instruments is REAL unnerving.

 

[magicj]

My DPE expected me to use the GPS(430W) on all approaches right up until I was legally required to use the ground based nav aids. And even then to continue to monitor the GPS for situational awareness.

 

[AustinPilot]

Make sure you can do a DME arc at a random distance off a VOR. Do a radio check before you depart with the DPE. If you use a 430, make sure you know how to pull up the CDI as a backup. Pay really close attention to missed approach instructions, sometimes they are non-standard. If your plane has any automation, be confident in using it (and use it to help you!).

 

[RussR]

The only thing I found different or difficult on my checkride was the instructors way of introducing an unusual attitude. What he did was had me attempt to fly a series of manouvers with my eyes closed. I can tell you NOT looking at the instruments is REAL unnerving.

One of my instructors (may have been an IPC or something - it was well after my IR training) did this to me, and I have adopted it for my students as well. It is VERY effective.

 

[Bonchie]

DME arcs are something that get glossed over, especially since many planes don't have DME anymore.

So be comfortable getting the necessary info into your GPS to use it as a DME and be proficient in holding the arc.

Also, know how to perform a hold using just about any nav-aid or datapoint. Not just the most common ones that you practice the most.

Biggest #1 thing that I struggled with in training? Remembering to identify nav-aids. It's very easy to over look and it's a bust if you do.

 

[coloradobluesky]

I hadn't been pulling the power back when entering a hold in practice. I didnt in the checkride either.

 

[Maverick]

I'm scheduled to take it on Saturday.

Think back to your own checkride. While I'm sure most of you made zero mistakes, for those that made any - what was your biggest learning (or perhaps biggest surprise) from the checkride?

On my IFR checkride it seemed like ATC did everything in their power to screw up my checkride. As an example we were making an ILS approach into Flint Bishop airport (KFNT) and they were giving me radar vectors to the approach. For reasons passing understanding they brought me in way to high and not allowing me to descend until I was established on the localizer and well above the glide slope. My examiner said ok what are you going to do about it. I slipped the airplane to descend more rapidly and just as I was coming onto the glide slope ATC made me break off because they had someone they wanted to bring in ahead of me. I thought for sure I was going to be busted on my checkride but apparently the examiner liked the way I handled the problems that were thrown at me. I received my temporary certificate after the debriefing on the ground. It was one those Murphy kind of things where anything that could go wrong did go wrong but in the end it was the way I handled what was thrown at me that counted.

I was nervous but I did my best to maintain a cool head and work the problems.

 

[gdeekhoff]

I just passed my instrument check ride last week. The DPE told me before going out to fly that I could use the auto-pilot as much as I wanted - he would tell me when he wanted it turned off. He just said don't let the auto-pilot fail the check ride for me.

Turned out he knew what he was talking about. On the first approach (vectors to ILS) I was using the auto-pilot and it captured the ILS perfectly. The glide slope came in on the HSI and I lowered the gear and started a GUMPS check, but didn't notice that the auto-pilot failed to capture the glide slope. By the time I noticed it I was just about at full deflection and DPE asked what I wanted to do. I asked for vectors to try it again and this time hand flew after it intercepted the localizer.

Everything else on the ride went smoothly. DPE said that I made the right call in asking for vectors and probably would have failed me it I tried to dive for the glide slope.

 

[petrolero]

I learned that I'm just shy of John Glenn in my piloting skills. But I think we all knew that.

No but seriously... I learned that you can fly your checkride while asking your DPE to keep an eye on an incoming isolated moderate to heavy rain cell that was not (yet) dropping lightning or obviously building. I made the "go" decision with the caveat that I believed the cell would pass north of the field but that the flight would wait out the rain at Front Range airport or in the practice area if it moved over the field. I requested that the DPE keep an eye on the cell while I was under the hood, which he agreed to do. I told him I'd watch it on my iPad as well and we'd check ATIS before landing to make sure it wasn't reporting anything bad.

He accepted my judgement and we did the ride. The cell actually did move just off the north end of the field while we were doing approaches on the south end. The windshield got a little wet. By the time we finished the ride, that cell had moved off to the east as expected.

He actually complimented me on coming up with a reasonable and safe plan, with alternatives, and using the resources available to me (including the DPE). He said many pilots would have canceled but that he was glad I didn't.

 

[Einstein376]

I was low on the ILS and called it out. I solved it by leveling off and flying into the glide slope and continued the normal decent once I centered the GS. Never went full defliction during this. DPE stated at the debrief - leveling off and not chasing the GS saved the busted ride. Leveling off is safe and he liked the problem-solving. I think if I had not stated aloud what I was doing - he would have failed me. He knew we were low and trying to hid it would not have worked out.

Jim

 

[uncreative]

My biggest surprise was being asked to do an approach that I understood to not be legal. ( VOR/DME without a valid source of DME) I couldn't tell if it was a trick to see if I would actually fly it or what. As a consequence, I learned a bit about using all resources available to reduce workload. If you get jammed up, don't be afraid to ask ATC for delay vectors to sort things out.

I'd also advise taking it slow. As my airline pilot friend advised me after I failed my checkride- there's real world flying and there's flying for the checkride. There's no reason you can fly the whole thing at 80 KIAS.

 

[Caramon13]

It's interesting reading all these. I've got my checkride tomorrow (tentatively). And, I'm taking it at night since I can't do it during the day.

Not really a big deal since I've got a ton of night time. Hell, for my PPL I had almost 60 night landings. Super nervous about it...

 

[flyingron]

Make sure you can do a DME arc at a random distance off a VOR.

Hopefully, a VOR/DME or a VORTAC. Not supposed to be a PTS task if you don't have a real DME in the plane.

Do a radio check before you depart with the DPE.

Only a fault if something is wrong with your radios. If you depart from a towered field and they hear you, your radio is checked.

If your plane has any automation, be confident in using it (and use it to help you!).

Yep. I used mine in the hold. It's a PTS task to be asked to fly an approach with one if it supports it. In my case it went like this:

<we just finished unusual attitudes and the gyros are covered>
DPE: (mimicking ATC) Maint 3000' until established Cleared RNAV 23 approach.
<start flying the approach>
DPE: Does your autopilot still work when the vacuum fails.
ME: Yes, it's a rate unit off the electric TC.
DPE: Then why don't you use it?
ME: OK. Verify that the we're on the leg of the approach and punch on the autopilot.

 

[flyingron]

There's nothing like getting down on the last approach (an ILS) and saying "DECISION HEIGHT" with my hand on the throttle ready to go missed and he says "Take off the foggles and land." Land, taxi off, and he shakes my hand.

 

[AustinPilot]

Hopefully, a VOR/DME or a VORTAC. Not supposed to be a PTS task if you don't have a real DME in the plane.

Hmm I don't see that spelled out in there. Since GPS is a legal substitute for DME, I'd be prepared for it. I didn't have a traditional DME and I had to fly an arc on my checkride. I'm sure it would have been a crummy day if I had tried to argue with the DPE over that.

Only a fault if something is wrong with your radios. If you depart from a towered field and they hear you, your radio is checked.

Or maybe you depart from an uncontrolled field where calling FSS by phone is the only way to open a flight plan. That was my situation.

 

[Bonchie]

I had no DME and was made to fly an arc via GPS in lieu of DME as well.

Seems to be the norm.

 

[ChrisK]

On my IFR checkride it seemed like ATC did everything in their power to screw up my checkride. As an example we were making an ILS approach into Flint Bishop airport (KFNT) and they were giving me radar vectors to the approach. For reasons passing understanding they brought me in way to high and not allowing me to descend until I was established on the localizer and well above the glide slope. My examiner said ok what are you going to do about it. I slipped the airplane to descend more rapidly and just as I was coming onto the glide slope ATC made me break off because they had someone they wanted to bring in ahead of me. I thought for sure I was going to be busted on my checkride but apparently the examiner liked the way I handled the problems that were thrown at me. I received my temporary certificate after the debriefing on the ground. It was one those Murphy kind of things where anything that could go wrong did go wrong but in the end it was the way I handled what was thrown at me that counted.

I was nervous but I did my best to maintain a cool head and work the problems.

Dude. KFNT did much the same thing with me on my CAP G1000 IFR ride. Even my check pilot was "....."

 

[AggieMike88]

Did some IFR training today. Big teaching moment occurred. I was told before the flight what tasks we were going to do, including an approach at KLUD (30 miles from home) and the full procedure ILS18 at home (KDTO).

Programmed in a flight plan for the KDTO > KLUD. Off we go, do our thing, all going pretty okay.

The mistake was not having a KLUD > KDTO entered in advance to keep the button pushing and knob twisting to a minimum as I'm leaving the missed approach at KLUD.

Workload got way to high and add to it some frustration that I wasn't getting the system to connect the dots before I was to close to my initial point to continue with that.

Moral: preprogram as much as possible. It would have been 15-20 seconds to hit FPL, select the next plan, execute, press PROC, select the approach and initial point, clear the discontinuity, leaving plenty of time for aviating and my "Approach A's" versus the botched job that I did today.

But that's what training is supposed to accomplish. Give you experiences and mistakes so that you develop the wisdom to become better.

 

[Clark1961]

Did some IFR training today. Big teaching moment occurred. I was told before the flight what tasks we were going to do, including an approach at KLUD (30 miles from home) and the full procedure ILS18 at home (KDTO).

Programmed in a flight plan for the KDTO > KLUD. Off we go, do our thing, all going pretty okay.

The mistake was not having a KLUD > KDTO entered in advance to keep the button pushing and knob twisting to a minimum as I'm leaving the missed approach at KLUD.

Workload got way to high and add to it some frustration that I wasn't getting the system to connect the dots before I was to close to my initial point to continue with that.

Moral: preprogram as much as possible. It would have been 15-20 seconds to hit FPL, select the next plan, execute, press PROC, select the approach and initial point, clear the discontinuity, leaving plenty of time for aviating and my "Approach A's" versus the botched job that I did today.

But that's what training is supposed to accomplish. Give you experiences and mistakes so that you develop the wisdom to become better.

Good observation. But it's also good to practice the scramble. Ya never know when yer gonna git the "advise when ready to copy" or expect the visual when it's really IMC and ya gotta change to an approach.

 

[AggieMike88]

Good observation. But it's also good to practice the scramble. Ya never know when yer gonna git the "advise when ready to copy" or expect the visual when it's really IMC and ya gotta change to an approach.

One tip I got recently when you are on an IFR plan and the controllers switch up something and you need more time to execute the approach is to ask for "vectors for time" or "delay vectors". Controller will steer you in a pattern that brings you back to a decent starting point for the approach, but gave you time to deal with what was keeping you ready for the approach.

I reviewed that with my instructor and he says he has used that time or two and it helps get the workload back under control for a good approach and landing.

 

[Clark1961]

One tip I got recently when you are on an IFR plan and the controllers switch up something and you need more time to execute the approach is to ask for "vectors for time" or "delay vectors". Controller will steer you in a pattern that brings you back to a decent starting point for the approach, but gave you time to deal with what was keeping you ready for the approach.

I reviewed that with my instructor and he says he has used that time or two and it helps get the workload back under control for a good approach and landing.

That's another good tool to have. I got slammed onto an ILS one time when expecting the visual. I was lazy and the ATIS sounded good so had nothing set up. It was a good thing I was at the home drome and had the approach memorized (which was probably why I was lazy). It took about two seconds to tune the nav and set heading and I was good to go. There are times when an ILS is better than a GPS.

 

[AggieMike88]

What GPS do you have in the ol Frankenkota?

 

[Clark1961]

What GPS do you have in the ol Frankenkota?

GNS430W

 

[flyingron]

Hmm I don't see that spelled out in there. Since GPS is a legal substitute for DME, I'd be prepared for it. I didn't have a traditional DME and I had to fly an arc on my checkride. I'm sure it would have been a crummy day if I had tried to argue with the DPE over that.

This note appears in just about every DME-dependent task:

NOTE: Any reference to DME will be disregarded if the aircraft is
not so equipped.


I wouldn't argue with the DPE over it, but if it kept me from getting a certificate you can be darned sure it would go up the chain of command. Of course, my plane has a DME (not that I've turned it on really since I got my IFR GPS).

Or maybe you depart from an uncontrolled field where calling FSS by phone is the only way to open a flight plan. That was my situation.

Eh? That's not a towered field then.

 

[dell30rb]

If you fly slow and your DPE has another checkride scheduled after yours, he/she may let you skip the hold. I took my checkride in a 152.

 

[dell30rb]

So, what do you do in this scenario? Some kind or procedure turn, or a climbing turn to the missed approach course?

The first thing you do is add full power and climb. No one has ever crashed above an airport.

 

[EppyGA]

Ident your navaids.

If you are 430 or 530 equipped and going missed don't forget to Suspend.

If you are flying an ILS and for some reason are about to go full scale tell the DPE you're going missed. It will probably buy you another chance.

 

[dell30rb]

There's nothing like getting down on the last approach (an ILS) and saying "DECISION HEIGHT" with my hand on the throttle ready to go missed and he says "Take off the foggles and land." Land, taxi off, and he shakes my hand.

Yep. On my last ILS we had traffic landing in the other direction. It was about a 5kt tailwind and the examiner got on the radio and informed the other pilot I was doing the last approach of my instrument checkride, would he mind if we took it all the way down?

 

[PPC1052]

This note appears in just about every DME-dependent task:

NOTE: Any reference to DME will be disregarded if the aircraft is
not so equipped.


I wouldn't argue with the DPE over it, but if it kept me from getting a certificate you can be darned sure it would go up the chain of command. Of course, my plane has a DME (not that I've turned it on really since I got my IFR GPS).

An IFR certified GPS is an acceptable substitute, so the GPS makes the aircraft "so equipped."

Eh? That's not a towered field then.

My home field is not towered, but we are close enough to the Charlie to easily raise clearance delivery via radio. Maybe that's the type of situation he's allowing for.

 

[Ravioli]

On these notes to Ident your navaid:

My PFD shows the active and standby navaids in the HSI page. Is that sufficient or should the obligatory push of the Nav1 monitor button on the audio panel be done to hear the beepy-beep-bap?

 

[PPC1052]

On these notes to Ident your navaid:

My PFD shows the active and standby navaids in the HSI page. Is that sufficient or should the obligatory push of the Nav1 monitor button on the audio panel be done to hear the beepy-beep-bap?

You have to listen to the beeps so that you know not just that you have the correct frequency, but that the station is working. So, yes, you must listen to the beepy-beep-bap.

 

[Bonchie]

On these notes to Ident your navaid:

My PFD shows the active and standby navaids in the HSI page. Is that sufficient or should the obligatory push of the Nav1 monitor button on the audio panel be done to hear the beepy-beep-bap?

Don't just listen to it. Have your plate out and check the code. Simply listening to it will show him you don't understand what it means to actually identify it.

And remember, if you do have an ADF, you must monitor it constantly. With VOR/LOC, just confirm the morse code and turn it off.

 

[James331]

If you fly slow and your DPE has another checkride scheduled after yours, he/she may let you skip the hold. I took my checkride in a 152.

Holds aren't that big of a deal. Heck I've had a Checkairman rapid fire the next approach and I've told him I'm going into the hold to get myself reconfigured.

 

[AggieMike88]

I wanted to follow up on what I wrote in Post #24 of this thread.... We figured out what I was missing when programming the GPS.

Before we started the engine on today's training hop, we put into practice what I wrote about inputting ALL of the flight plans we needed, including the approaches we were going to do. And then worked on figuring out how to get the GPS to sequence from our current location (the hangar) to the initial point (the LOM for the ILS18 at KDTO).

If you want to follow along, the GPS I have is the CNX80/480. I repeated what I was doing wrong in the air (making sure KDTO was the destination, then going to the PROC page to select the approach and "entry"). I had it loaded, because it would show as a saved list of waypoints, but each time I tried to press the >D> (direct) button to select DTi, it wouldn't let me. I would be shown a screen confirming I wanted to go direct to the KDTO. "No, I want to go to the DTi, the outer marker."

The "aha!" moment was when my instructor asked what would happen if after loading in the approach way points, I pressed the EXEC (execute) key. This is the function that both saves the new or modified plan and starts the sequence. I had been doing the steps that was only saving, not the ones that said "start the sequence". Now that I had EXECuted the flight plan, I was able to press the Direct button, scroll to DTi, and have the unit step through the full procedure.

So chalk this one up to learning about your equipment. Now I know what has to be done to get the approach into the plan, get the sequence running, and select where I'm starting the approach.