Biannual flight review

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JOhnH

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Is an IPad acceptable during a VFR flight review in lieu of paper charts and an AFD?

Will the reviewer expect a current FAR/AIM be brought along?
 
EFB are okay from what I understand. Ipad is an EFB, so why not?
 
I suppose it depends on the CFI.
 
There's no such thing as a "FAR/AIM" officially so I can't imagine why you'd get dinged for an up to date electronic version. If you're going to bring electronic charts I'd certainly expect the examiner to ask you questions about what happens when it fails and to demonstrate currency of the info, etc...
 
I'd be a bit more put out about having to do a flight review every 6 months.
 
EdFred said:
I'd be a bit more put out about having to do a flight review every 6 months.
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That would be the semi-annual Review. Biennial is technically what it is...it's just not called that anymore.

To answer the original poster's question, as a CFI I would consider current charts on an iPad or Nexus as all you need.
 
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JOhnH said:
Is an IPad acceptable during a VFR flight review in lieu of paper charts and an AFD?
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If we're talking about the average Joe Pilot not flying for a commercial operating certificate holder, there is nothing in the regulations or guidance saying it is not. Any CFI saying it isn't will have a difficult time justifying that position.

Will the reviewer expect a current FAR/AIM be brought along?
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Only if the reviewee doesn't have a photographic memory, since there are several things which might be asked which, in all humility, even I might not know off the top of my head. That's one reason I have the FAR/AIM in the documents section of Foreflight on the iPad I would be using as my EFB on a flight review.
 
flyingron said:
... I'd certainly expect the examiner to ask you questions about what happens when it fails...
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Out of curiousity, is there a good answer to this, aside from "well then... I look at my... OTHER IPAD!"

(smug look, magician hands, and "bazinga" optional ;) )

Only other thing I can think of is to call up ATC if you're on with them and confess the situation and ask for additional help/vectors/student-pilot-treatment.
 
schmookeeg said:
Out of curiousity, is there a good answer to this, aside from "well then... I look at my... OTHER IPAD!"

(smug look, magician hands, and "bazinga" optional ;) )

Only other thing I can think of is to call up ATC if you're on with them and confess the situation and ask for additional help/vectors/student-pilot-treatment.
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Correctamundo -- same as when the door pops on your Aztec and your sectional sitting on the right seat goes zip out the opening somewhere near Henderson KY. And with the iPad, you have the advantage in that situation as an iPad isn't likely to be sucked out like that.

I've always wondered if someone on the ground found that chart and wondered where it came from...
 
If would show up prepared like you would for any other flight.

If I am flying a plane without a panel GPS, and no paper charts, I make sure Wing X or skychartspro is current on my iPhone. Good news, ipad2/ wing x pro has failed on me yet.
 
schmookeeg said:
Out of curiousity, is there a good answer to this, aside from "well then... I look at my... OTHER IPAD!"

(smug look, magician hands, and "bazinga" optional ;)
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"I'd look at my paper charts but they blew away in the wind this morning. At least my iPad is still here."

Then call ATC.

Edit: sorry, I posted without seeing Ron's post.
 
I ask pilots to use whatever they use in their everyday flying, so if that's an Ipad, go for it.
 
flyingron said:
If you're going to bring electronic charts I'd certainly expect the examiner to ask you questions about what happens when it fails and to demonstrate currency of the info, etc...
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My answer was that if the Ipad fails, I have the Iphone,
or the Garmin 496,
or the installed Garmin 530w (which is primary anyway).
Or the VORs.

But it is my wife's review that is coming up, and her answer to that question was "I'd look out the window; after all, it is a VFR (Visual-FR) review". That's one of the things I like about her. KISS.
 
flyingron said:
There's no such thing as a "FAR/AIM" officially so I can't imagine why you'd get dinged for an up to date electronic version. If you're going to bring electronic charts I'd certainly expect the examiner to ask you questions about what happens when it fails and to demonstrate currency of the info, etc...
Click to expand...

We are not dealing with an "examiner" for a flight review.
 
JOhnH said:
Is an IPad acceptable during a VFR flight review in lieu of paper charts and an AFD?

Will the reviewer expect a current FAR/AIM be brought along?
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As an instructor - yes an iPad is acceptable to me for use during a flight review as the only source of data.

It would be a good idea to have a current FAR/AIM in some form whether that's electronic or paper. If you didn't have a FAR/AIM it might be difficult for you to answer some questions I may have and if you have no method to answer them then I may not be able to sign off the ground portion of the review.
 
garyb said:
You and I may very well be the only people on the face of the earth who understand that it is impossible to fail a flight review. :rolleyes:
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Call it whatever you want. When someone expects to end up with a flight review signature in their logbook and they walk away without it they sure don't feel like they "passed".
 
jesse said:
and if you have no method to answer them then I may not be able to sign off the ground portion of the review.
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Hmmmm...are you trying to tell me that there's supposed to be a ground portion of a BFR?

:rolleyes:
 
steingar said:
Glad I don't use you for my BFR's then.
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I'm sorry that you feel that a flight review should be the absolute minimum of the regulations. If you're getting through them handshake to handshake in less than 3 hours you're doing yourself quite the disservice.

I find that by the time I meet the person, talk to them a bit, and get through the ground we've easily burned at least 1.5 hours by that point. After that the person might spend a few minutes hitting the restroom and getting ready for the flight. The flight typically takes 1.5 hours or so. Then once the flight is done I spend some time talking to them about how things went, what they should consider working on during the next two years, and fill out the endorsements. It doesn't take long to burn a 3 to 4 hour slot. Sometimes it goes even longer than that.
 
jesse said:
I'm sorry that you feel that a flight review should be the absolute minimum of the regulations. If you're getting through them handshake to handshake in less than 3 hours you're doing yourself quite the disservice.
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Says you. The guy I've been using for the last half decade retired from a University education department, and I think he's now a Gold Seal Flight Instructor. He's been doing this since you were in diapers. I think he knows a thing or two.
 
steingar said:
Glad I don't use you for my BFR's then.
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How long does it take you to conduct a flight review, from handshake to handshake? By the time the introductions are done, the hour or more of ground training is complete, we go out to the plane, preflight, fly for at least an hour, then secure the plane and fill out the paperwork, I can't see how anyone could possibly do it in less than three hours. What's your secret for doing it in less?
 
steingar said:
Says you. The guy I've been using for the last half decade retired from a University education department, and I think he's now a Gold Seal Flight Instructor. He's been doing this since you were in diapers. I think he knows a thing or two.
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Okay Michael? I could careless if you want to use me for a flight review. I don't teach the minimum and I don't review for the minimum. If someone doesn't like that they can feel free to find someone else. I don't care.

A flight review takes a 3 hour slot with a competent proficient pilot unless you just pencil whip it. I don't pencil whip. They can easily and often do take more time.
 
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Ron Levy said:
How long does it take you to conduct a flight review, from handshake to handshake?
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An hour of ground and an hour in the air.

Ron Levy said:
By the time the introductions are done, the hour or more of ground training is complete, we go out to the plane, preflight, fly for at least an hour, then secure the plane and fill out the paperwork, I can't see how anyone could possibly do it in less than three hours. What's your secret for doing it in less?
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I preflight my aircraft before anything else, and my CFI trusts that I'll get that right. On my most recent BFR we started by flying and doing air work. It went pretty quickly since I know how to fly my aircraft, and the Free Bird always makes me look good anyway. An hour later we're back on the ground having done stalls, steep turns, turns around a point, a few flavors of landing and all the other stuff.

It takes five minutes to put the aircraft away, we spend an hour on the ground, and we're done. It would have taken another hour if I could have bought my CFI lunch, but the restaurant was closed.
 
steingar said:
An hour of ground and an hour in the air.



I preflight my aircraft before anything else, and my CFI trusts that I'll get that right. On my most recent BFR we started by flying and doing air work. It went pretty quickly since I know how to fly my aircraft, and the Free Bird always makes me look good anyway. An hour later we're back on the ground having done stalls, steep turns, turns around a point, a few flavors of landing and all the other stuff.

It takes five minutes to put the aircraft away, we spend an hour on the ground, and we're done. It would have taken another hour if I could have bought my CFI lunch, but the restaurant was closed.
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I understand that you aren't a math professor - but if you add up the bare minimum that is required 1 hour of ground and 1 hour in the air. Then you add in the time that you said with the above tasks, a debriefing, plus the time for the appropriate logbook endorsements it will at best take a 3 hour slot.

Perhaps you aren't aware of the time when you're doing them. Or perhaps your instructor is not truly following the regulations. I don't know what to tell you.

I conduct flight reviews quite regularly. I pay attention to the time when I'm doing so. They take 3 hour slots at best if the pilot has everything ready to go and is current and proficient.

I personally leave 5 hours of time available for a flight review as it's pretty common for a weak area to be identified that needs to be addressed.

Do you feel as though the bare minimum of the regulations - 1 hour of flying and 1 hour of ground is really all the flight review should consist of?
 
steingar said:
An hour of ground and an hour in the air.
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Either you are not answering the question I asked, or you must consider filling out a person's logbook and watching them preflight the aircraft to be "ground training.". If the latter, I suspect an FAA Inspector observing your conduct of such a flight review would result in a really bad time for you.


I preflight my aircraft before anything else, and my CFI trusts that I'll get that right.
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Your CFI is a more trusting soul than I. I would not certify the conduct of that which I did not observe.

On my most recent BFR we started by flying and doing air work. It went pretty quickly since I know how to fly my aircraft, and the Free Bird always makes me look good anyway. An hour later we're back on the ground having done stalls, steep turns, turns around a point, a few flavors of landing and all the other stuff.
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And no time is spent even filling out your logbook? Or walking out to the plane?

In any event, clearly you are not a CFI and don't conduct flight reviews, so your certificate is on the line if you participate in such a pencil-whipping of the ground training requirement that it's only two hours of the instructor's time out of his/her day.
 
wait so it is not called a Biennial flight review anymore? Because the Feds really don't like calling it anything than a "Flight Review" so is it Biennial or Biannual??
 
Ron Levy said:
Either you are not answering the question I asked, or you must consider filling out a person's logbook and watching them preflight the aircraft to be "ground training.". If the latter, I suspect an FAA Inspector observing your conduct of such a flight review would result in a really bad time for you.


Your CFI is a more trusting soul than I. I would not certify the conduct of that which I did not observe.
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Do you watch all your students preflight the aircraft? I might even be remembering incorrectly, it really doesn't take that long to preflight a Cherokee.

Ron Levy said:
And no time is spent even filling out your logbook? Or walking out to the plane?
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Met at the plane, and did logbook signoffs during the ground training.

Ron Levy said:
In any event, clearly you are not a CFI and don't conduct flight reviews, so your certificate is on the line if you participate in such a pencil-whipping of the ground training requirement that it's only two hours of the instructor's time out of his/her day.
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I can only go by my experience, and I have never spent 4 hours doing a BFR. Some of the CFI's on this board are very full of themselves, claiming that any action not taken to their own specifications is "pencil whipped".
 
The last flight review I gave was to a 20,000hr retired ATP'er who still regularly flies a ton. Let's just say it was a waste of time. I'm not gonna say it was pencil whipped, but when the plane is on rails, it's sort of a go through the motions thing.
 
steingar said:
Do you watch all your students preflight the aircraft?
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All? No. But I do when I'm signing that they know how to do it, which is part of a flight review.

Met at the plane, and did logbook signoffs during the ground training.
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I can't see how one can be filling out paperwork at the same time one is giving training, especially since one cannot sign the papers until after the training is complete. The more you write, the more you make it sound like your instructor cuts corners.

In any event, you are not a CFI and do not have the responsibility we instructors do. I'll keep blocking a lot more than two hours for flight reviews, and if you don't like that's you don't have to do yours with me. You can keep doing them with your tame instructor -- at least, until the FAA watches one of his 2-hour start-to-finish flight reviews.
 
Ron Levy said:
at least, until the FAA watches one of his 2-hour start-to-finish flight reviews.
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As long as the CFI conducts one (1) hour of ground instruction and one (1) hour of flight he meets the intent of 14 CFR Part 61.56.

There is nothing that prohibits the CFI from doing required logbook entries during the ground portion. However he cannot place his signature in the signoff until completion of both the ground portion and flight portion.

The CFI in theory could have the applicant arrive and preflight the airplane, and then the CFI could arrive at 12 noon, start the ground portion and at exactly 1pm get up, walk out to the airplane and start up (1:10p), taxi out and go fly and pull back on the ramp and shut down at 2:10p, sign the book and leave. And he has meet the requirement of the reg. And for that matter, there's nothing prohibiting the CFI from giving the ground portion while sitting in the cockpit of the plane on the ramp.

I don't advocate it happen that way, but facts are facts. Most CFI's prefer to be more thorough and that's their choice (it's their signature).

And I've yet to see a ASI sit and time a BFR with a stop watch. :rolleyes:

§ 61.56 Flight review.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.
(b) Glider pilots may substitute a minimum of three instructional flights in a glider, each of which includes a flight to traffic pattern altitude, in lieu of the 1 hour of flight training required in paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(e) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily accomplished one or more phases of an FAA-sponsored pilot proficiency award program need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.
(f) A person who holds a flight instructor certificate and who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, satisfactorily completed a renewal of a flight instructor certificate under the provisions in § 61.197 need not accomplish the one hour of ground training specified in paragraph (a) of this section.
(g) A student pilot need not accomplish the flight review required by this section provided the student pilot is undergoing training for a certificate and has a current solo flight endorsement as required under § 61.87 of this part.
(h) The requirements of this section may be accomplished in combination with the requirements of § 61.57 and other applicable recent experience requirements at the discretion of the authorized instructor conducting the flight review.
(i) A flight simulator or flight training device may be used to meet the flight review requirements of this section subject to the following conditions:
(1) The flight simulator or flight training device must be used in accordance with an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.
(2) Unless the flight review is undertaken in a flight simulator that is approved for landings, the applicant must meet the takeoff and landing requirements of § 61.57(a) or § 61.57(b) of this part.
(3) The flight simulator or flight training device used must represent an aircraft or set of aircraft for which the pilot is rated.

From Order 8900.1, Vol. 5, Chapter 2, Sec. 3

5-261 LENGTH OF REVIEW. A flight review consists of the general operating and flight rules of 14 CFR part 91 and those maneuvers and procedures that are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate. There are no specific requirements for the particular items or maneuvers to be reviewed. These matters are left to the discretion of the person giving the flight review.

A. Minimum Training Time. The flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of ground instruction and 1 hour of flight instruction, except as provided for in § 61.56(d) and (e). A flight review may require more than 1 hour of ground instruction and 1 hour of flight instruction to complete a flight review. The regulations do not restrict the review to the minimum hour requirement. The person conducting the review determines whether more than 1 hour of flight and 1 hour of ground instruction are required for the review, depending on the experience and skills of the applicant.



 
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