Best way to learn holding patterns?

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asgcpa

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Started learning holding patterns. Suggestions on easiest way to learn?
 
asgcpa said:
Started learning holding patterns. Suggestions on easiest way to learn?
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I didn't really follow the 70/110 degree method. I simply diagramed the hold in relation to where I am relative to the fix, and asked myself "How can I cross the fix, stay within the safe zone, and make the inbound turn as efficiently as possible?" It all seems to work out safely and technically correct.
 
asgcpa said:
What is 70/110 degree method?
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Draw a line through the fix going through the hold at a 70 degree angle. You will get something that looks like this:
F0503004_972.gif

A would be parallel, B teardrop, and C a direct entry.
 
Well, one way is to let the GNS 480 tell me "HOLD PARALLEL AHEAD" and then leave the AP coupled and watch it fly the entry. I doubt that would have gotten me far on the check ride.

Except for the written exam, where you have time to sit there and actually draw out the inbound course and the pie wedges above, the fly to the fix and do the best turn that gets you back to the inbound course suggestion works fine at the speeds most of us fly. The various depicted entries are advisory.
 
Does your plane have an HSI?

Just use the HSI to visualize the hold. The center is the VOR and set the inbound radial. You are approaching from the bottom and can now see exactly what your going to need to do.
 
asgcpa said:
Started learning holding patterns. Suggestions on easiest way to learn?
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Find a good instructor, start on paper, then move to something like Nav Trainer on iPad or Tim's Air Navigation Simulator on a PC, then the sim, then the airplane.
 
Direct is pretty easy to understand, but a CFI friend taught me

Nose
In
Teardrop

Nose
Out
Parallel

As you cross the fix where is the nose to the holding pattern.

Other than that the 430 tells me. :rofl:
 
flyingron said:
The various depicted entries are advisory.
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And sterling advice it is, too, since you don't want to have to unlearn old habits when you transition to something faster than a corn-popper.

dtuuri
 
ja_user said:
It is way to complicated for me, draw it and it always makes sense.
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This.

Draw the fix. On a piece of paper or right on a chart if not depicted.

Draw the pattern - always INBOUND to the fix.

Draw that approximate 70/110 line, slanting through the pattern (does not have to be exact).

Draw your plane on its inbound course.

Ask yourself which entry would involve the least maneuvering - roughly half the time it should be Direct.

Bear in mind these entries are recommended - if you're so close to the line as to make it hard to decide, it likely does not matter that much - choose the entry that's easiest for you (within limits).
 
My instructor and DE said it best.

Find the holding side, pick the easiest entry for you. Stay on the holding side and you'll never go wrong.

When I'm working traffic and issue a hold, I don't care how you enter. I only care that you remain in the protected airspace.
 
dtuuri said:
The center is the holding fix, not all holds are at a VOR. An RMI isn't required for visualization either.

dtuuri
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Good catch, i was assuming holding on the station. Yes, the center is whatever you're holding on...the fix.
 
On a black- or whiteboard, one-on-one with a CFI who understands how to teach it without simply mouthing the official line.
 
I use my thumb.

Really, I use my thumb to help visualize the entry. It's not my idea either. I think it's Ralph Butchers, but Ron will know.

Take your thumb a place it gently on top of the 90 mark on your DG or HSI. Which thumb? Left thumb for left turn patterns or your right thumb for right turns.

Now that you got your thumb out, mentally draw a straight line from the top of your thumb, through the center of the DG or HSI. Mentally draw a line from the top of the instrument to the center. You now have divided the 360 degrees into three segments. The first is the 180 degree arc and this represents a direct entry. The wedge shaped one that looks like a tear is the area where you'd do a teardrop entry. The last area is the parallel entry.

So, find the inbound leg of the holding pattern and see what segment it falls under. That will tell you the entry.

Sorry, it's so much better with pictures or better yet a whiteboard and trying various holds.
 
Print up a big canvas sheet with a holding pattern on it. Lay it on the floor and walk through the different pattern entries. You can even simulate ATC calls...airplane sounds optional.

Or you can get in a sim and do it over and over again until it clicks in your brain. To me that was the easiest way of learning it. Repetition allowed me to look at a hold at a glance and know the preferred entry within 5 degrees.
 
flyingron said:
Well, one way is to let the GNS 480 tell me "HOLD PARALLEL AHEAD" and then leave the AP coupled and watch it fly the entry. I doubt that would have gotten me far on the check ride.

Except for the written exam, where you have time to sit there and actually draw out the inbound course and the pie wedges above, the fly to the fix and do the best turn that gets you back to the inbound course suggestion works fine at the speeds most of us fly. The various depicted entries are advisory.
Click to expand...

The various entries are advisory for slow light airplanes flying Part 91 only. For someone who may be looking for a business aviation or airline career they are not advisory.
 
Ron Levy said:
I said "on paper" above, but a black/white-board is just as good.
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Missed it. Yes, we essentially said the same thing (although black/whiteboard uses less paper ;) ).

In addition to students, I've done it during IPCs when the pilot expressed concerns about understanding holds and gotten "Wow, that's easy" responses.
 
Hi CPA.

Back when I was trying to learn the entries, my instructor said if the inbound course is ahead to your left, parallel, if ahead and to your right, teardrop, if it is behind you, direct. That has worked great for me. It's easy to remember and no drawing is required. You should always know where you are in relation to the fix.
 
somorris said:
Hi CPA.

Back when I was trying to learn the entries, my instructor said if the inbound course is ahead to your left, parallel, if ahead and to your right, teardrop, if it is behind you, direct. That has worked great for me. It's easy to remember and no drawing is required. You should always know where you are in relation to the fix.
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What if it's non standard? ;)
 
have you or your instructor do some ground school. have him give you holding clearences. draw out the pattern and try to figure out which way you would enter
 
jordane93 said:
have you or your instructor do some ground school. have him give you holding clearences. draw out the pattern and try to figure out which way you would enter
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+1 This is really one of the best ways. Try doing it on old enroute charts.
 
And if you're not planning on flying with paper charts, get out the iPad and learn to visualize the practice on paper over the screen. Decide now if you're a north up or track up personality type. Heh.
 
Fly outbound from the fix, 7000 feet over your holding altitude, do a split s back towards the fix and start holding.
 
Just pencil a diagram of the hold on the chart. That makes it easy to determine the entry method. Practically, you can use either the direct entry (when approaching from "behind" the fix) or the parallel entry (when approaching from "in front of" the fix) all the time.
 
Paging Todd Covey. Paging Todd Covey to the white board room.

Oh, that's right, Todd's not here. He diagrammed a wonderful "holding patterns for idiots" thread over on CPS. It makes it exceedingly simple. But I don't recall exactly how he explained it...just how to execute it.

And I'm no longer a member over there so I can't plagiarize it. Maybe someone else here can.
 
nddons said:
I didn't really follow the 70/110 degree method. I simply diagramed the hold in relation to where I am relative to the fix, and asked myself "How can I cross the fix, stay within the safe zone, and make the inbound turn as efficiently as possible?" It all seems to work out safely and technically correct.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
Don't overthink them. Your examiner and,ultimately ATC, doesn't really care which method of entry you use as long as it gets you into the hold while staying close to the protected side.
 
LDJones said:
:yeahthat:
Don't overthink them. Your examiner and,ultimately ATC, doesn't really care which method of entry you use as long as it gets you into the hold while staying close to the protected side.
Click to expand...

Or you could buy a GTN WAAS GPS and have it tell you which pattern entry ;) Seriously, when I was learning holds, the mental math that my instructor was trying to teach just wasn't sticking. Loren is right, as long as you are on the protected side and can get established without too much gymnastics, no one will care.
 
Marauder said:
Or you could buy a GTN WAAS GPS and have it tell you which pattern entry ;).
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Only if that hold is in the procedure database. Even the GTNs do NOT allow you to input arbitrary holds into the flight plan (or by any other means).

Of course, I've never been given other than a direct entry hold that wasn't part of a procedure.
 
flyingron said:
Only if that hold is in the procedure database. Even the GTNs do NOT allow you to input arbitrary holds into the flight plan (or by any other means).

Of course, I've never been given other than a direct entry hold that wasn't part of a procedure.
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i thought i saw a video on youtube where a guy entered in an arbitrary hold off a random fix and the gtn750 drew the pattern for him . i may be mistaken though
 
Marauder said:
Or you could buy a GTN WAAS GPS and have it tell you which pattern entry ;) Seriously, when I was learning holds, the mental math that my instructor was trying to teach just wasn't sticking. Loren is right, as long as you are on the protected side and can get established without too much gymnastics, no one will care.
Click to expand...

Unless that someone is a Part 135 or Part 121 check airman or inspector. It does matter for commercial operators flying turbine equipment.
 
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