Bellanca crash, crosswind got him, 3 people uninjured, plane was definitely injured.

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PaulS

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Tough to watch.... said he was 90 mph on final for "trees and altitude density", that made me scratch my head. Don't know if that is fast or not for this airplane, but it sounds fast

 
Fast is why the accident happened. Altitude density? Did he really have a pilot certificate?
 
Distance, I'm having a hard time visualizing what happened. He looked really fast, skidded sideways, avoided a ground loop, but collapsed the gear? Guessing....
 
Unfortunately, this type of accident isn't totally uncommon in the Super Viking world. The BSV can be a little touchy on the ground, since it's got solid connections from the pedals to the nosegear. If you don't keep the pressure off the nosewheel after landing (especially if you land too fast) and you're not delicate with the pedals, it can get away from you. Too many newer BSV pilots have suffered the same fate, though frequently without damaging the airplane (just ending up in the grass).
 
The problem with landing too fast is there is not enough weight on the tires to assist in directional control, and you are now limited to just rudder inputs. You can't really roll the airplane with tires on the ground. But without the tires gaining traction, adding rudder just yaws the airplane sideways but cannot really change it's direction over the ground. If that makes sense...

Also, it looked like he smacked that thing down onto the runway *hard*. Damn.
 
Jeff767 said:
Fast is why the accident happened. Altitude density? Did he really have a pilot certificate?
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He was too fast but the airplane to slammed into the ground when he flared? Seems contradictory.
 
dmspilot said:
He was too fast but the airplane to slammed into the ground when he flared? Seems contradictory.
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Yeah, lotta nonsense being attributed to the pilot just freezing and riding the airplane into the ground.
 
"I tried to slow my descent rate by pulling back on the yoke". Sounds like something a student pilot my try. He had 300 hours.
 
Silvaire said:
Yea, I don't think "crosswind" had anything to do with it.
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Crosswind anxiety maybe? Sometimes the fear of crosswinds (and the ham-fisted things we do because of those fears) are way worse than the crosswind itself.
 
dtuuri said:
Don't know what you guys are seeing. :dunno: He had a tailwind, not enough right rudder and dropped it in with the nose up. Too slow, IAS-wise; too fast, GS-wise. IMO.
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Yep, that's what I saw.
RoscoeT said:
Yeah, lotta nonsense being attributed to the pilot just freezing and riding the airplane into the ground.
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That too...
 
Appeared to me that with the quartering tail wind, fast and coming in almost level over the trees for the chop and drop without realizing there would be a slight down draft because of the trees.

I have met several folks that say they like to be fast on final because the extra speed makes the controls ''feel better''. Then they talk about how their airplane takes ALL of the runway to land.

Expert arm chair here.....
 
Not a CFI, but after the bounce, I'll bet he had full right aileron (a logical reaction based on driving a car) instead of right rudder. I once saw a Cherokee lose it on a 2 mph "crosswind" & get blown into the snowbank. Again, loss of control due to using the ailerons instead of the rudder to correct yaw.
 
He was not aligned with the runway. Carrying a huge crab angle, and put more crab in right as he touched down. Look at the position of his rudder relative to the nose just before touchdown. The aircraft is pointed almost directly at the camera, which is probably 30 degrees off runway heading at that point. He was headed off the runway the second his mains touched pavement. Needs a taildragger endorsement. Those pedals are not footrests.

crab.PNG

more crab.PNG
 
I think he landed, let the aileron out, weather vaned, didn't correct and then he was a passenger. Approach too fast, poor crosswind compensation.
 
"After an uneventful local flight in the single-engine airplane, the pilot entered the landing pattern at his destination airport and the windsock indicated an almost perpendicular crosswind of about 10 knots. On final approach, after clearing a tree line, the pilot reduced power to land. As power and airspeed were reduced, the airplane's rate of descent suddenly increased. The pilot attempted to slow the rate of descent, but the airplane impacted the runway hard and bounced. The airplane exited the runway and impacted a berm. The nose landing gear collapsed, resulting in substantial damage to the front lower part of the fuselage and firewall. The pilot stated that, due to the crosswind and the trees at the end and side of the runway, he should have adjusted his landing point further down the runway to avoid possible wind anomalies."

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/06/bellanca-17-30-n6681v-incident-occurred.html

I would dispute the 10 knot crosswind based on video evidence. He landed fast and very hard with a tailwind. I would suspect the trees through him off more than anything...as well as a tailwind.
 
I might be a horrible person, but it makes me laugh every time I see that little hop towards the end. The first time I watched it I involuntarily said "wheeeee" when it happened.

Hard to tell what happened from that angle. Had to have a fair amount of energy to slide that far though.
 
Jim K said:
I might be a horrible person, but it makes me laugh every time I see that little hop towards the end. The first time I watched it I involuntarily said "wheeeee" when it happened.

Hard to tell what happened from that angle. Had to have a fair amount of energy to slide that far though.
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The sound track in my head was the same but it had “ohhh my back” at the end.
 
dtuuri said:
Don't know what you guys are seeing. :dunno: He had a tailwind, not enough right rudder and dropped it in with the nose up. Too slow, IAS-wise; too fast, GS-wise. IMO.
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You certainly have much more experience than I do, but it seems like there wouldn't be enough energy to slide off the runway, over the grass, and then launch that high into the air that far from touchdown if he was "too slow".
 
RoscoeT said:
Navy landing
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He'd have been fine if he'd hooked the cable...:p

dtuuri said:
Don't know what you guys are seeing. :dunno: He had a tailwind, not enough right rudder and dropped it in with the nose up. Too slow, IAS-wise; too fast, GS-wise. IMO.
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Yup.

Appears he touched down without removing the crab angle into the crosswind (looks like he actually increased it just before touching down), skidded sideways along the runway until he scrubbed off enough speed for the tires to gain traction and then rolled the rest of the way in the direction he was pointed.

That Bellanca gear must be pretty strong not to have collapsed from the sideload after the initial touchdown. Most retractable Cessna's wouldn't put up with that level of abuse from their pilots. ;)
 
Salty said:
You certainly have much more experience than I do, but it seems like there wouldn't be enough energy to slide off the runway, over the grass, and then launch that high into the air that far from touchdown if he was "too slow".
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I think he was saying, the guy was slow in the air but fast on the ground due to a tailwind.

that American flag does look like it's showing a slight crosswind but it's hard to say.
 
Right ruddrr. Right rudrrrrrrrrr

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
StevieTimes said:
I think he was saying, the guy was slow in the air but fast on the ground due to a tailwind.

that American flag does look like it's showing a slight crosswind but it's hard to say.
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I'm looking at the sock. Reads "tailwind" to me.
 
dtuuri said:
I'm looking at the sock. Reads "tailwind" to me.
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Agree there was a light quartering tailwind. But to me, it looks like he just flew it hard into the ground. I can't see any sort of pitch up or flare in the last 30 ft. of his descent... that just doesn't work. If it was low IAS due to the tailwind, leading to a stall, you would still see some sort of flare, or the nose dropping after the stall. Instead, you just the the airplane descending quickly toward the runway, striking the runway, and then sliding off the runway.

I owned a 17-31 Viking for several years. They handle crosswinds very well, like most high performance low wing aircraft do.

I'm glad no one was hurt.
 
edo2000 said:
Agree there was a light quartering tailwind. But to me, it looks like he just flew it hard into the ground. I can't see any sort of pitch up or flare in the last 30 ft. of his descent... that just doesn't work.
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Agreed, I don’t see any evidence of flare here at all. Multiple views of the video, and I just don’t see it. Not the way I was taught to land a Viking. I’ve had mine for 8 years, have put over 840 hours on it, and have 1140 landings. It’s not hard to land. Wonder how things went so wrong for this guy.
 
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Winds were 110/006
HW component 1.04kts
XW component 5.91kts
for Rwy 19
Temp 32C
Elev 687'asl
DA 3153'
Rwy 19 (3300 x 60 dry asphalt)

I can't tell much from the video.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Winds were 110/006
HW component 1.04kts
XW component 5.91kts
for Rwy 19
Temp 32C
Elev 687'asl
DA 3153'
Rwy 19 (3300 x 60 dry asphalt)

I can't tell much from the video.
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I can't tell much from that wx rpt. It was 29 miles away. Which do you believe, the wind 29 miles away or your lyin' eyes?
 
Using the “Principle of Charity”, can we assume that in the past, this pilot made hundreds or thousands of decent, successful landings with a properly executed roundout and flare?

So, we have to focus on what went wrong in this specific case.

What I can think of...

1) A freak gust or wind shear that hit the plane right at the moment the pilot began to flare.

2) The pilot was somehow distracted at a critical moment, delaying his normal landing process at exactly the wrong time.

3) Some sort of visual illusion which threw off the pilot’s perception of height, delaying his roundout and flare.

I’m sure there are other possible explanation. Yes, it could have simply been an isolated case of poor piloting. But I think it’s to easy to jump to “stupid pilot trick” when other factors - factors we as pilots may also sometimes fall victim to - could have at the very least exacerbated the situation.
 
FastEddieB said:
Using the “Principle of Charity”, can we assume that in the past, this pilot made hundreds or thousands of decent, successful landings with a properly executed roundout and flare?

So, we have to focus on what went wrong in this specific case.

What I can think of...

1) A freak gust or wind shear that hit the plane right at the moment the pilot began to flare.

2) The pilot was somehow distracted at a critical moment, delaying his normal landing process at exactly the wrong time.

3) Some sort of visual illusion which threw off the pilot’s perception of height, delaying his roundout and flare.

I’m sure there are other possible explanation. Yes, it could have simply been an isolated case of poor piloting. But I think it’s to easy to jump to “stupid pilot trick” when other factors - factors we as pilots may also sometimes fall victim to - could have at the very least exacerbated the situation.
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It’s a lot easier to jump to stupid pilot trick when the pilot says he was doing stupid things, like adjusting indicated airspeed due to high DA.
 
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