Becoming Canadian [NA]

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Mtns2Skies

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Mtns2Skies
Perhaps not the best forum for this, and I know this is pilots of 'America' but I was wondering if anyone has insight into finding jobs and the paperwork involved in becoming a dual citizen.

I'm a mechanical engineering student, and upon my graduation I'd be looking for some aeronautical engineering jobs in the Vancouver BC area.

How are US engineers regarded in Canada?

Would any companies be willing to go through the paperwork to get a non-citizen employed?

What paperwork would I need, and in what timeline in regards to moving there?

Is there any paperwork necessary PRIOR to applying for jobs?

Thanks in advance!
 
Start saving your pennies if you want to live there. It's perhaps the most expensive city in North America. It's beautiful, though.
 
Hopefully you don't smoke or drink,they have the highest sin tax. I've seen in awhile.
 
Do you mean actually citizenship, or a work visa? As far as I know it's not difficult to get a work visa, unless you plan on immigrating for some reason.

Keep in mind that the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. It's rarely enforced, but technically you could be required to renounce one of your citizenships if discovered by the State Department, or have your U.S. citizenship stripped. This is how a lot of American mercenaries became, well, expats back when joining foreign legions was popular.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Do you mean actually citizenship, or a work visa? As far as I know it's not difficult to get a work visa, unless you plan on immigrating for some reason.
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I was thinking if I work there and live there might as well get citizenship. I thought you only had to renounce if you serve in another country's military?
 
We have a passenger who is a dual citizen and it is a bit of a PITA for us to do eAPIS for him because we need to record his Canadian passport when entering Canada and his US passport when entering the US. I forget what citizenship he started as but he got the other one by marrying. I think the thing is that, technically, the US does not recognize dual citizenship but they do not make you give up your other passport.

You might think of getting a job with a company which has offices in both Canada and the US. I think it's easier to make the transition that way.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I was thinking if I work there and live there might as well get citizenship. I thought you only had to renounce if you serve in another country's military?
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It would not be made an issue unless you serve in a foreign government or military. Still I see no upside to it, there is no tax benefit. The US, UK, Canada, and Australia all have a reciprocal tax agreement, where you can elect to pay your oversees earnings locally or in the U.S. without being double taxed.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Do you mean actually citizenship, or a work visa? As far as I know it's not difficult to get a work visa, unless you plan on immigrating for some reason.

Keep in mind that the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. It's rarely enforced, but technically you could be required to renounce one of your citizenships if discovered by the State Department, or have your U.S. citizenship stripped. This is how a lot of American mercenaries became, well, expats back when joining foreign legions was popular.
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So does that free you of the long arms of the IRS?
 
Sac Arrow said:
It would not be made an issue unless you serve in a foreign government or military. Still I see no upside to it, there is no tax benefit. The US, UK, Canada, and Australia all have a reciprocal tax agreement, where you can elect to pay your oversees earnings locally or in the U.S. without being double taxed.
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paflyer said:
So does that free you of the long arms of the IRS?
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Getting a second citizenship? No. Again, the U.S. and Canada have a reciprocal tax agreement where you can choose file and pay in either country without having to pay both.

In the case of working in a country where there is no such agreement, you still have foreign holding reporting requirements (which, by the way are invasive and onerous), but you aren't taxed by the IRS on the earnings until you bring it back in to the U.S.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Perhaps not the best forum for this, and I know this is pilots of 'America' but I was wondering if anyone has insight into finding jobs and the paperwork involved in becoming a dual citizen.

I'm a mechanical engineering student, and upon my graduation I'd be looking for some aeronautical engineering jobs in the Vancouver BC area.

How are US engineers regarded in Canada?

Would any companies be willing to go through the paperwork to get a non-citizen employed?

What paperwork would I need, and in what timeline in regards to moving there?

Is there any paperwork necessary PRIOR to applying for jobs?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I'm a US mechanical engineer that has done some work in Canada (as well as many other foreign countries) and I will tell you that Canada is one of the worst as far as letting US Citizens come in and work. If you want to work there I would suggest the citizenship route(although I know nothing about that). Whenever I worked in Canada we would have to have documentation of our degrees, a written letter from the company we were working for stating that there was no one in Canada qualified to do the work we were doing. They don't want anyone else coming into their country and taking their jobs. Typically we would also have technicians travel with us but when we went to Canada, everyone had to have a degree in addition to the Canadian work letters. Any other country I went to just wanted money for a work visa.
 
Somedudeintn said:
I'm a US mechanical engineer that has done some work in Canada (as well as many other foreign countries) and I will tell you that Canada is one of the worst as far as letting US Citizens come in and work. If you want to work there I would suggest the citizenship route(although I know nothing about that). Whenever I worked in Canada we would have to have documentation of our degrees, a written letter from the company we were working for stating that there was no one in Canada qualified to do the work we were doing. They don't want anyone else coming into their country and taking their jobs. Typically we would also have technicians travel with us but when we went to Canada, everyone had to have a degree in addition to the Canadian work letters. Any other country I went to just wanted money for a work visa.
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Thanks for the insight!

I read somewhere that 70% of the current engineers in Canada will be retiring between 2020-2025... now those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous so I'm not quite so sure how much I believe them, but perhaps an engineering shortage could help?
 
Sac Arrow said:
Do you mean actually citizenship, or a work visa? As far as I know it's not difficult to get a work visa, unless you plan on immigrating for some reason.

Keep in mind that the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. It's rarely enforced, but technically you could be required to renounce one of your citizenships if discovered by the State Department, or have your U.S. citizenship stripped. This is how a lot of American mercenaries became, well, expats back when joining foreign legions was popular.
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They've lightened up a lot on that in recent years.

Absent acts that can be construed as treason, serving in certain public offices in another nation, serving in a hostile nation's armed forces, becoming a commissioned office of another nation's armed forces without permission, or a few other exceptions, U.S. citizenship is not jeopardized by obtaining citizenship in another nation unless the individual acquired that citizenship with the intention of giving up U.S. citizenship, which can only be proven by the affirmative act of renunciation. (See Kawakita v. United States and Vance v. Terrazas).

I actually hold dual Italian - U.S. citizenship. I was born an Italian citizen jus sanguinis under Italian law by virtue of my grandparents having been natural-born Italian citizens (along with some other stipulations involving the dates of my parents' birth and my grandparents' U.S. naturalization), and a U.S. citizen jus soli under U.S. law by virtue of having been born here. I could quite easily obtain an Italian passport if I wanted one.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation when we were in high school except that his jus sanguinis citizenship in Italy was by virtue of his parents' birth in Italy, not his grandparents'. They'd also registered his birth with the Italian embassy when he was born. When he turned 18, he got drafted into the Italian army. He wound up getting an educational deferment. I don't know what happened after that because we lost touch.

Interestingly, the Italian military did say that serving in the U.S. military would have satisfied his Italian military obligation.

Rich
 
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Sac Arrow said:
Keep in mind that the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. It's rarely enforced, but technically you could be required to renounce one of your citizenships if discovered by the State Department, or have your U.S. citizenship stripped.
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This is a bunch of drivel. The US doesn't recognize dual citizenship in that if you are a citizen of the United States, the US considers you such even if you have citizenship elsewhere.

The state department can't force you to give up or remove your US citizenship. It requires the action of the court and isn't going to happen just because you acquired citizenship elsewhere. You can with specific intent to do so, give up US citizenship by getting naturalized in a foreign country.

One thing you should be careful on is that certain positions requiring security clearances are going to be difficult with dual nationality (though I'm not sure that Canadian citizenship is going to affect other than the most highest levels).
 
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Sac Arrow said:
Getting a second citizenship? No. Again, the U.S. and Canada have a reciprocal tax agreement where you can choose file and pay in either country without having to pay both.

In the case of working in a country where there is no such agreement, you still have foreign holding reporting requirements (which, by the way are invasive and onerous), but you aren't taxed by the IRS on the earnings until you bring it back in to the U.S.
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I meant that if you get a "dual" citizenship and the US strips you of citizenship as a result, then you aren't liable to US tax laws, including reporting.
 
flyingron said:
This is a bunch of drivel. The US doesn't recognize dual citizenship in that if you are a citizen of the United States, the US considers you such even if you have citizenship elsewhere.

The state department can't force you to give up or remove your US citizenship. It requires the action of the court and isn't going to happen just because you acquired citizenship elsewhere. You can with specific intent to do so, give up US citizenship by getting naturalized in a foreign country.

One thing you should be careful on is that certain positions requiring security clearances are going to be difficult with dual nationality (though I'm not sure that Canadian citizenship is going to affect other than the most highest levels).
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That's correct. About the one thing you must worry about if you have multiple citizenships including US, is that you MUST enter the US as a US citizen. You cannot enter the US on a Canadian passport if you have both.

In terms of security clearances, if you have multiple citizenship, you may not exercise any privileges of another citizenship and maintain any clearance. The mere act of using a Canadian passport to enter Canada will put your clearance in jeopardy. They take security clearances very seriously, unless, of course, you're running a home-brew e-mail system with classified information on it, that's totally cool.
 
One other note...one does not simply become a citizen of another country (except by birth or descent). One must FIRST immigrate to that country for a time as a non-citizen, then apply to become a citizen.

I'm in my 9th year living in the US as an alien.
 
JeffDG said:
That's correct. About the one thing you must worry about if you have multiple citizenships including US, is that you MUST enter the US as a US citizen. You cannot enter the US on a Canadian passport if you have both.

In terms of security clearances, if you have multiple citizenship, you may not exercise any privileges of another citizenship and maintain any clearance. The mere act of using a Canadian passport to enter Canada will put your clearance in jeopardy. They take security clearances very seriously, unless, of course, you're running a home-brew e-mail system with classified information on it, that's totally cool.
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For Top-Secret, it's almost always required that a candidate actively renounce any other citizenship(s).

For Secret or Confidential, it's strongly preferred that any other citizenships be actively renounced, but exceptions can be made based on the countries involved and whether or not the applicant actually exercises the privileges of the foreign citizenship(s). Some applicants don't even know they have dual or multiple citizenships until they apply for a clearance. A technical, jus sanguinis citizenship in the land of one's parents' birth might not be a problem if the applicant wishes to retain it simply to avoid hurting his or her parents' feelings. But obtaining a passport or otherwise exercising the privileges of a jus sanguinis citizenship will be a problem, as will intentionally obtaining the citizenship of another nation whose citizenship was not automatically bestowed upon the individual at birth.

What it boils down to is that someone who may some day need a U.S. security clearance should not take another nation's citizenship. Simply living in another nation can even be a problem. Even if it was for purely pragmatic reasons (for example, to take a superb job offer), it greatly complicates the process of obtaining a clearance.

But if an individual has no need for nor desire to ever obtain a security clearance, living in another nation, or accepting citizenship in most nations, does not in and of itself put their U.S. citizenship in jeopardy.

Rich
 
Canada is a hard place to get citizenship and to work, although it is possible.

Look into the finances. Taxes are exorbitant. You're financially best off if you can avoid Canadian taxes.
 
flyingron said:
This is a bunch of drivel. The US doesn't recognize dual citizenship in that if you are a citizen of the United States, the US considers you such even if you have citizenship elsewhere.

The state department can't force you to give up or remove your US citizenship. It requires the action of the court and isn't going to happen just because you acquired citizenship elsewhere. You can with specific intent to do so, give up US citizenship by getting naturalized in a foreign country.

One thing you should be careful on is that certain positions requiring security clearances are going to be difficult with dual nationality (though I'm not sure that Canadian citizenship is going to affect other than the most highest levels).
Click to expand...

Furthermore the U.S. does not recognize any obligations that you may have to another nation of citizenship. Yes it is true that for the most part having a citizenship in another country in itself won't be a cause for revocation of your US citizenship, but this is more of a non-enforcement issue that a technical issue.
 
OK, first of all, I don't know anything about dual citizenship, the ins and outs, or anything. I do know a fellow who was born in England, and his parents came to the US when he was six. He is in his fifties now. So he became a US citizen, and grew up here. But he claims to still have British citizenship as well. I don't know if he does or not. But he decided that he had it with the US, sold out, and moved to the UK. But he couldn't get a job, because, according to him, he is not a resident of UK. Again, this is his story, not mine, but he said that in the UK, while they recognized his dual citizenship, they did not recognize his residency because of the amount of time he had been living in the US, and he was not permitted to work.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Furthermore the U.S. does not recognize any obligations that you may have to another nation of citizenship. Yes it is true that for the most part having a citizenship in another country in itself won't be a cause for revocation of your US citizenship, but this is more of a non-enforcement issue that a technical issue.
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Actually, the Supreme Court has been clear that the US cannot revoke your US citizenship simply for taking another country's citizenship, so it's not a matter of non-enforcement, it's a matter of your fundamental rights as a US Citizen.
 
Maxmosbey said:
OK, first of all, I don't know anything about dual citizenship, the ins and outs, or anything. I do know a fellow who was born in England, and his parents came to the US when he was six. He is in his fifties now. So he became a US citizen, and grew up here. But he claims to still have British citizenship as well. I don't know if he does or not. But he decided that he had it with the US, sold out, and moved to the UK. But he couldn't get a job, because, according to him, he is not a resident of UK. Again, this is his story, not mine, but he said that in the UK, while they recognized his dual citizenship, they did not recognize his residency because of the amount of time he had been living in the US, and he was not permitted to work.
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That sounds odd. Certainly, having been born in the UK he would be a UK citizen.

I don't see how they could stop him from working. He might need to establish residency in the UK for some period of time before being entitled to benefits like NHS and such, but that time period would not be huge (months).

I have Irish citizenship in addition to Canadian, and I can go to the UK to live and work at any time on the basis of my Irish citizenship under the EU agreements, so I can't see them denying a UK citizen.

Voting is again another matter. I cannot vote anywhere right now. Ireland requires residency to vote. Canada will permit you to vote for 5 years after you last reside in Canada, provided that you have an intent to return to Canada to reside in the future. I'm out on both counts, in that I've lived in the US for 8 years and have no specific intent to return.
 
paflyer said:
I meant that if you get a "dual" citizenship and the US strips you of citizenship as a result, then you aren't liable to US tax laws, including reporting.
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Unless of course you have US income in which case you will need to squat and dump at the IRS altar every April 15. My wife held a single citizenship in Croatia while living and working in the USA for 27 years, and had a Green Card. She was required to pay taxes just like a natural born US Citizen. Effectively, the only thing a Green Card holder can't do is vote.

-Skip
 
Very difficult to believe that an intelligent young man cannot get a mechanical engineering job in the US.
 
JeffDG said:
Actually, the Supreme Court has been clear that the US cannot revoke your US citizenship simply for taking another country's citizenship, so it's not a matter of non-enforcement, it's a matter of your fundamental rights as a US Citizen.
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I'm not familiar with the ruling, but okay.
 
steingar said:
Very difficult to believe that an intelligent young man cannot get a mechanical engineering job in the US.
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Getting a job isn't a problem. I just think it's be interesting to live and work elsewhere for some amount of time and I like Canada
 
Duel Citizen (Naturalized US) and held a TS for a while never asked to renounce anything...I still have two active passports and routinely travel outside the US on my EU and return on my US (Global Entry) to the states.
 
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Skip Miller said:
Unless of course you have US income in which case you will need to squat and dump at the IRS altar every April 15. My wife held a single citizenship in Croatia while living and working in the USA for 27 years, and had a Green Card. She was required to pay taxes just like a natural born US Citizen. Effectively, the only thing a Green Card holder can't do is vote.

-Skip
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if you work in US under temporary worker visa arrangement, i.e. non-permanent resident and no Green Card(J1, H1-B, etc), you will not be paying quite as much taxes. Still Fed and State income, but no payroll(SSI, Medicare).

Makes this a better deal for foreigners to legally work here then locals.

Having a green card is basically the same as being a citizen other than 1. no voting and 2. you can lose the green card in certain cases.
 
genna said:
if you work in US under temporary worker visa arrangement, i.e. non-permanent resident and no Green Card(J1, H1-B, etc), you will not be paying quite as much taxes. Still Fed and State income, but no payroll(SSI, Medicare).
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Citation?

I was in the US for 4 years on L-1 before becoming a LPR, and I paid SSI and Medicare for that time.
 
The topic evokes many powerful emotions. Not all good.

When I left, I was escaping a place which had a system that caused me to....(excuse any indelicacy that may result following a stiff drink)....work like a dog so that other people could drink beer and screw.
Now, I see it has followed me to some extent.

If you have a bank account/investments in a foreign country, don't forget to report them on IRS/FinCEN Report 114 each year.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The topic evokes many powerful emotions. Not all good.

When I left, I was escaping a place which had a system that caused me to....(excuse any indelicacy that may result following a stiff drink)....work like a dog so that other people could drink beer and screw.
Now, I see it has followed me to some extent.

If you have a bank account/investments in a foreign country, don't forget to report them on IRS/FinCEN Report 114 each year.
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If you dont mind... Could you elaborate? Where did you leave?
 
Left Canada 1991; many of us had such high hopes for the country. And no doubt, it still has many awesome features. As in most situations it is the humans that mess things up.
Worked 60hrs/week; great paycheck. Gross paycheck, that is. After taxes, (this is as a professional) there was never a hope I would buy a home. After rent & utilities, basic needs there was no hope to move up from my Hyundai Pony even. Certainly no airplane. (I was not the outlier, many many similar stories like mine.)
I would come home at night and see the guys who figured out the minimum work needed each year to collect pogey and lay around drinking beer for most of the year. Their pregnant girlfriends learned that if they had more babies, their government supplement would increase. They loved raising babies, and more babies meant more $ in their pockets, so they did not hold back in that regard.
Their entertainment (beer, babies) grew, my net paycheck shrunk.
I remember a very liberal woman chastising me for moving to the US, taking my skills/education with me; I felt like telling her she was the one that voted for babies and free beer.
 
Free beer, money for baby making? Sounds like we need to build a monorail from Mexico to Canada with no stops. Win win. Some are happy to give others to receive.:lol::rolleyes2:
PS The OPs engineer shortage info reads like all the pilot shortage PR repeated over the decades.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Perhaps not the best forum for this, and I know this is pilots of 'America' but I was wondering if anyone has insight into finding jobs and the paperwork involved in becoming a dual citizen.

I'm a mechanical engineering student, and upon my graduation I'd be looking for some aeronautical engineering jobs in the Vancouver BC area.

How are US engineers regarded in Canada?

Would any companies be willing to go through the paperwork to get a non-citizen employed?

What paperwork would I need, and in what timeline in regards to moving there?

Is there any paperwork necessary PRIOR to applying for jobs?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

You don't need dual citizenship to work in Canada, if you have a desired and needed skill in a major industry the employer can get you a work permit no worries. I've worked in Canada contract to Canadian companies before, it was zero effort on my end, it was all just handled with the job, a couple extra pieces of paper to sign clearing in.
 
sourdough44 said:
Leave your AR's and H&K's at home too. :(
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Yep! But, that's true in some U.S. states/cities also. Canada has no 2A, so you are at the mercy of a whimsical government. Check out the new PM, and that's all I'll say as this isn't SZ.
 
Anthony said:
Yep! But, that's true in some U.S. states/cities also. Canada has no 2A, so you are at the mercy of a whimsical government. Check out the new PM, and that's all I'll say as this isn't SZ.
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In Canada surviving humanity is your second objective, first you have to survive nature. Between the cold and the mosquitos, I'm not sure which was the greater enemy.:lol:
 
Henning said:
In Canada surviving humanity is your second objective, first you have to survive nature. Between the cold and the mosquitos, I'm not sure which was the greater enemy.:lol:
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LOL, he wants to move to Vancouver, not the bush. :D

Coincidentally, I had the same idea when I was his age and got the same answers about difficulty getting a work permit.

Much later in life I have a close relationship with a company that has its headquarters in Canada so we travel there often and know a number of Canadians. I'm sure there are plusses and minuses to living there, but in my viewpoint they just about equal out... except for the winter weather. But Vancouver doesn't have that issue.
 
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