Battery Life and Care

AKBill

AKBill

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AKBill
What causes poor battery life... Lately I have had to jump my little Beech to start. Battery is a 4 year old, Gill G-35. My first battery lasted 10 years...

AMP meter shows good charge when engine is running.

I have pulled and serviced every year since new. Been flying at least once a week all summer. Pulled battery a few weeks ago and serviced. Same thing, 1 week later, had to jump start.

Are the plats Bad or do I look elsewhere???
 
I feel anything more than two years is a gift from the battery gods.

Even a single deep discharge may dramatically shorten the life of a battery.

Some sort of ongoing trickle charge seems to help extend battery life and performance.
 
I have an Odyssey that's 16 years old and going strong. You need to buy a better battery.
 
Common for Gills, I've had several and have one now.
Things that might reduce lifespan
-initial charging done incorrectly
-charged at too high a rate (do you know your charging system output? Gill told me 13.9v is optimal)
-let the charge get too low for too long (not flying)
-cranking while battery has too low a charge
-charging while really hot outside
-rapid charges, charges which result in the battery getting hot
-letting the electrolyte get low enough to expose plates
-letting the battery get too hot or too cold (I experienced this in Canada, and now I live near Mexico)
-failure to desulphate
-owning the battery when the moon is in conjunction with more than two major stars
-add yours here ___________
basically they go downhill from the moment you flood the cells and it is more rapid if you look at it sideways. Terrible technology.
 
Ditch the flooded battery and get an AGM. Odyssey really does make the best. An Odyssey can sit on the shelf for two years and not need a charge. It puts out almost full starting power when cold so no need to preheat the battery. No need to trickle charge unless you have a phantom load on the system. I've parked my planes in fall several times for outdoor storage here in Anchorage. In the spring I just turn the key and the engines fire right up, no battery care needed. My B&C alternator and regulator charge at 14.4v and my system is healthy. Heat kills batteries. Alaskans don't have to worry about that!

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/docs/us-ody-tm-002_1014.pdf
 
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Is there a standard Gill to Odyssey conversion table? I don't know if you need an STC in that case or not.
 
Stewartb said:
Ditch the flooded battery and get an AGM. Odyssey really does make the best. An Odyssey can sit on the shelf for two years and not need a charge. It puts out almost full starting power when cold so no need to preheat the battery. No need to trickle charge unless you have a phantom load on the system. I've parked my planes in fall several times for outdoor storage here in Anchorage. In the spring I just turn the key and the engines fire right up, no battery care needed. My B&C alternator and regulator charge at 14.4v and my system is healthy. Heat kills batteries. Alaskans don't have to worry about that!

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/docs/us-ody-tm-002_1014.pdf
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Thanks for the replay Stewart, I think I will try one.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Is there a standard Gill to Odyssey conversion table? I don't know if you need an STC in that case or not.
Click to expand...

I could not find a conversion chart for the odyssey, may need to get a field approval.. I will look into further and let you know what I find
 
I use a Deltran Battery Tender and also try to fly 1-2 times each week. The battery tender keeps the charge topped off and helps extend the life by avoiding some of the issues Letsgoflying mentioned above. I have a AGM battery which is over four years old and still works great. When it does die, I'll replace with an Odyssey. Had one on my 200hp IO-360 on my Starduster Too. It would spin it well even after sitting for several weeks, with a Battery Tender.
 
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Yeah, Gill is crap, cost nearly the same as a odyssey or Concorde and isn't event 1/4 the quality, has to be serviced, can easily spill and damage expensive stuff, just junk.

Also +1 for the battery tender.

I have tenders on everything with a battery which I don't run at least every other day.
 
We will all have lithium batteries in 5 years. My Shorai lithium motorcycle is the cat's meow.
 
Stewartb said:
I have an Odyssey that's 16 years old and going strong. You need to buy a better battery.
Click to expand...
I fly with an Odyssey dry cell Battery PC680 and use a battery tender specifically made for an Odyssey.

I fly several times a week.

After about two years the first one failed the high rate discharge rate and failed to start the engine at three years. My second lasted a little longer and I am on my third now. It too failed the high rate discharge test at 70% after two years. I am still using it after four years but it does not have the power a new one does and it takes less time to become discharged.

I have a 65 amp alternator.

My Battery needs to start my Lycoming IO-320 and operate a Toyota starter for about 15 seconds to operate my pre-rotator. This application is very hard on a battery because the starter is at low rpm for most of the time.
 
AC43.13-2B chapter 10 is about battery replacement and relocation. No STC required.
 
kgruber said:
We will all have lithium batteries in 5 years. My Shorai lithium motorcycle is the cat's meow.
Click to expand...
Hopefully, they'll have figured out how to keep them from bursting into flames by then.
 
kgruber said:
We will all have lithium batteries in 5 years. My Shorai lithium motorcycle is the cat's meow.
Click to expand...

My EX Cub has an Earth X ETX900 lithium iron battery. Nice and light but with failures in the fleet not ready for prime time yet. Odysseys are rock solid and being lead acid the AC chapter applies.
 
I "think" my Shorai would easily power the starter on my O-360. It has been flawless in my Roadliner, and it only weighs about 3 pounds.
 
weirdjim said:
I've never seen a lithium motorcycle. I'll bet it is really light. :yes:
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not, but at least it's not subject to such severe bouts of depression.

For the OP, if you're concerned about your battery life you should also check the rest of the charging system. Just like in a car, if your alternator or voltage regulator are on the fritz they can kill any battery you install. And do consider an Odyssey if possible. They are a much better alternative to the old batteries.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Common for Gills, I've had several and have one now.
Things that might reduce lifespan
-initial charging done incorrectly
-charged at too high a rate (do you know your charging system output? Gill told me 13.9v is optimal)
-let the charge get too low for too long (not flying)
-cranking while battery has too low a charge
-charging while really hot outside
-rapid charges, charges which result in the battery getting hot
-letting the electrolyte get low enough to expose plates
-letting the battery get too hot or too cold (I experienced this in Canada, and now I live near Mexico)
-failure to desulphate
-owning the battery when the moon is in conjunction with more than two major stars
-add yours here ___________
basically they go downhill from the moment you flood the cells and it is more rapid if you look at it sideways. Terrible technology.
Click to expand...

-leaving the master switch on overnight. :mad::mad:

Did that once, and learned my lesson. I double (and sometimes triple) check the switch before I leave the hangar.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
-leaving the master switch on overnight. :mad::mad:

Did that once, and learned my lesson. I double (and sometimes triple) check the switch before I leave the hangar.
Click to expand...

some leave their rotating beacon switch on at all times so when you get out, its easy to notice the master is on

I don't have one but I do have a lo volt light which I should notice upon exiting, although in bright daylight....
 
I made the mistake when I turned the master back on to lower the flaps, then forgot to turn the master off. RV flaps aren't designed to be stepped on, so most guys lower them in the hangar for ease of entry/exit, and so passengers aren't tempted to step on them.
 
Not to hijack the thread but how much of a charge should you see on the voltmeter while the engine is running? I read up above that 14.4 is optimum. I get 13.1. :confused:
 
Timbeck2 said:
Not to hijack the thread but how much of a charge should you see on the voltmeter while the engine is running? I read up above that 14.4 is optimum. I get 13.1. :confused:
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I think it depend on voltage regulator and battery condition. Anything over 12v is charging. Typically I think 14.5 for a 12v system is good. I don't have a volt meter on my plane just and amp meter. Going to install voltmeter at annual end of November. Have you had issues with battery charging at 13.1v?

If every thing is turned off what is the voltage?
 
Nope. I installed a volt/amp meter (thanks again Spike) because I only had an ammeter in mine and I ran the battery down on a flight because the wire connection to my alternator decided to take the day off. Now I have a warning light if the volts get below 12.
 
I edited sorry. Nope, no problems with 13.1. I've actually never checked it with everything off. I didn't know what "optimum charge" was until I read this thread.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Not to hijack the thread but how much of a charge should you see on the voltmeter while the engine is running? I read up above that 14.4 is optimum. I get 13.1.
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see post #5 for Gill's response.
I have my jpi programmed to alarm at 14.3.
 
I bet if I turned everything off I'd be pretty close to 13.9. I'm assuming your alarm at 14.3 is for the high side?
 
AKBill said:
I think it depend on voltage regulator and battery condition. Anything over 12v is charging.
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Actually if you see 12V you have a problem. A fully charged lead acid battery will read about 12.7 at rest. You can use Google to find enough (often contradictory) references to make your head hurt, but charging voltages range from around 13.8-ish to as high as 14.7 or 14.8.
 
Just for reference, I see right around 14.2 volts when charging.
 
Seems pre-internet days that 14.4V and 28.8V were considered respective charging voltage for 12VDC and 24VDC systems.
 
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A) My previous Gill lasted 8 years. My new Gill is 9 years old and in great shape.
B) Charging voltage should be in low 14's for 12V systems. Hence the "14V system" designation. :) Overvoltage protection should kick in when you cross into the 15's.
 
So If I turn everything off and the voltage is less than 14 should I be concerned? I have a brand new alternator and don't know if the voltage regulator is original to the plane (doubt it) and adjustable.
 
12.6v is typically considered a 100% state of charge for a 12v lead-acid battery.

voltchart1.gif
 
Not to complex things up, but battery charging voltage is a fairly strong function of temperature. Not that any alternator regulator I'm aware of builds in temperature compensation.

Volts-Temp.jpg

Jim
 
Timbeck2 said:
Not to hijack the thread but how much of a charge should you see on the voltmeter while the engine is running? I read up above that 14.4 is optimum. I get 13.1. :confused:
Click to expand...
Read the manual for your battery. There is a LOT of good info in the Gill manual.
 
weirdjim said:
Not to complex things up, but battery charging voltage is a fairly strong function of temperature. Not that any alternator regulator I'm aware of builds in temperature compensation.

Jim
Click to expand...

Yup, which is why a manufacturer's service manual should specify what the charging voltage is, at whatever regulator temperature is in play. Cessna has a manual specifically for charging systems that covers all that.

I have found batteries shot because they were constantly being topped up right to the split rings while NOT under charge. The electrolyte swells while charging (gas bubbles in it) and it will overflow and go overboard if it's topped right up and then put to work. Gill is specific on this: top it to the rings ONLY when it is actively charging. In the airplane I will bring the level to about halfway between the plates and rings and it won't lose acid there.

Lost acid is replaced with water, weakening the overall concentration of acid and ruining the battery. Normal loss should be due to evaporation, not boil-over. The acid will stay in the battery and water will evaporate.
 
Lost acid is replaced with water, weakening the overall concentration of acid and ruining the battery.
Click to expand...

But we never top the battery from that bottle of leftover acid we had, from when we first serviced the battery. As tempting as it may be. (I know some who do, now that I think about it)
 
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