Avgas price too good to be true

[Jeff K]

OK, I think I see the difference of viewpoint... and from each of ours we are right. Let me comment on your remaining points in what I intend to be friendly.

I am not retired...I work hard to afford my aviation hobby, but my vacation is somewhat flexible. I do have friends who work at companies with policies like you describe.

I have my own company. If you look at my log book, the vast majority of my flights are extended cross counties.. I have a certain day I want to leave... a certain day I wish to return, and 80+% of the time it's for business reasons. This drove my choice of an airplane. I heavily use my airplane for my business... it's integral to family vacations as well... and frankly I've made a lifestyle decision here. Are airplanes my hobby? Sure... but just like a fellow where auto's are his "hobby" he also uses his car as basic transportation.

Reasonable people can agree to disagree. We don't disagree that this was a bad business choice. We only disagree on the degree.

If we agree a woman is pregnant... can we disagree to the degree?? Instead I think we really have two different issues here.

To me it's business ethics... say what you will do, do what you say. To you it was a crazy promotion at the local grocery store for 5 cent apples. I'm however noticing this store initially saying the supply of apples was unlimited yet they only had 90 apples in stock and no intent to source any above that. That is my issue here... the supply was limited yet representing it wasn't in the initial ads/interviews.

This was a crazy advertised special. Even you thought so, and hesitated to commit to it. In my opinion, this whole situation is very different from "normal" business.

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal business". I don't see how one conducts oneself in business should change with the situation. Also I don't see this as a "crazy advertised special" but alot closer to "stupid advertised special." Advertised being the operative word. More on that at the end.

In your opinion, it's right up there with a legally binding signed contract. In my opinion, it was a crazy promotion and not surprising that it was unsustainable, and I'm not going to cut them out of my will for the mistake.

It's elements of both. On the surface it appeared to be a crazy promotion.... look at the title of this thread. However, the vendor repeatedly said the could handle any demand... that the promotion would last through the month, that they had the sources of the gas to meet the demand. Even the grocery store who runs a "crazy" promotion always has a disclaimer of limited supply. Obviously there was a known limit to the promotion.. Yet no disclosure of any limit... instead saying they wouldn't run out of gas. The lack of the disclaimer for this situation, and the vendor saying this situation would never occur is my issue here.

If we had a signed contract to do work for a given price, and then they screwed me....well, I'd be singing a different tune.

If I'd acted on the claim... so would I. However, do be aware businesses have been sued for false advertising and these cases are very often the focus of BBB complaints and actions from state attorney generals/the FTC. So the lack of signed contract still doesn't allow you to say whatever you want to the public in a business relationship. There is certain specific language that must be included in ad's to protect companies from liability.

At the end of our day, our "difference of opinion" consists of three missing words in the initial promotion: "While supplies last"


That being said.... I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill as I don't believe there was any real malice here and as I earlier stated this is likely a case of Halon's razor. But I do see a difference between crazy and stupid... and after reading the laws on bait and switch advertising... there is a whole lot more of the later then the former in the first ad announcing the promotion. There is a reason when the supermarket is running that special on $0.10 gallon water they say "supplies are limited" or give's out rainchecks and it isn't because they are worried Lake Michigan will dry up

 

[Jim_R]

If we agree a woman is pregnant... can we disagree to the degree??

A better analogy would be, if we agree that a man has been cut with a knife, can we disagree about whether it was closer to a nick while shaving or to decapitation with a guillotine?

 

[Jeff K]

A better analogy would be, if we agree that a man has been cut with a knife, can we disagree about whether it was closer to a nick while shaving or to decapitation with a guillotine?

I don't agree it's a better analogy but even in this case if some else is doing the cutting with intent it's assault and battery in both cases.

Business ethics... you either have them or you don't... not a matter of degree. But I am wiling to take a plea of Halon's razor here.

In any case, let's just agree to disagree and give this thread the well deserved burial it deserves.

 

[SCCutler]

I talked to one of the Redbird guys at AOPA Summit today and, while I haven't read all of the new posts above, here's what I learned:

They intended for it to run all month, based on a projection of 8x normal volume (after verifying they could get up to 15x through their Avgas supplier). Their actual dispensing has been 30x normal volume, and this simply can't be sustained with the supply available in central Texas.

He said the ramp guys/fuelers have been busting their butts in the Texas sun... working VERY hard. I asked if the pilots arriving have at least been tipping the line guys, seeing as they are getting $1 fuel. He said only three people tipped the line guys in the first three days, so they put out a tip jar. $50 in three days.

Each pilot is asked to complete a five minute survey, including the kind of flying they generally do, what aviation magazines they read (they hope to focus their advertising efforts based on what they learn), etc.

I think the experiment proved one thing (based on tips). Pilots are cheap bastards.

One thing you should know, Troy: during this event, you taxi up, they marshal you into parking, and by the time you're out of the plane, they move on. You register at the tent, and get a text when fueling is done (in my case, about an hour later). When I returned to the airport, they were still hustling, but no way to track down the guys who fueled you. I asked the tent folks, they said no tip jar and declined to collect a tip at that time when I offered.

No one marshals you out when you leave.

Glad to know they set one up later (G_d knows, they were earning their keep), but it is not so clear-cut that it's all "cheap bastard," because the traditional tip-giving events never occurred.

From my prior dealings with these guys, I can tell you: they are top-notch, and I tipped well then, because the service they delivered was well above and beyond ordinary. And, I'll throw some extra their way next time.