As I've said, people think Keto is Atkins. It's not. Read Grain Brain.
Atkins vs Keto
- Thread starter RyanB
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You call an article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal published by the National Institutes for Health that has 17 pages of citations "all theory and opinion"? Okay.Hoo-boy.I started looking at the links. The first one is all theory and opinion, no actual study with documented results. The second starts off with this, "The conclusions of this well-conducted systematic review are likely to be reliable but the magnitude of the results were of little clinical significance." Then it states, "A low fat diet was defined as a restricted-energy diet with less than 30% of energy from fat." Well, that's not "low fat". Ten percent is low fat, not thirty. Thirty isn't even trying. I'm all for learning more about proper nutrition to stave off disease, but really...
Nice try. She said "we don't know whether it works in the low term, nor whether it's safe". The article I cited addresses both. And I didn't dismiss it based on the first sentence, I literally addressed every inaccuracy she raised.
bflynn
Final Approach
I will agree that one is called Keto and one is called Atkins. Beyond that, you really can’t tell them apart from a food standpoint.
Let me describe a diet that is 20% carbs, 20% protein and 60% fat. Which diet is it? We don’t know, it actually can be either one. Both are characterized as being ketogenic and derive weight loss from the ketosis process. Both are high fat / low carb. Both provide really good weight loss.
The name is irrelevant to me. What I do care about is a claim that Atkins should be 60% protein because not only will that probably not work, it would be dangerous. Which is why Dr Atkins said that high fat was crucial for the diet to work. Just like Keto.
The diet you describe is certainly not Keto or Atkins. One difference, probably the biggest one, is the kinds of fat. Keto is specific about eating high quality fats from grass-fed beef.
But to get to what I think is your bigger point: if you want to lose weight, stop eating carbs. It's really that simple. And that will work, and yes, who cares what it's called. I'm not doing Keto to lose weight though. That's the difference in my case.
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Mantis Toboggan, MD
What part of the cow do the bacon and eggs I see people talking about eating on a keto diet come from?
Nauga,
who doesn't think those round things in the beef cooler are eggs
I don't mean to say you only eat grass-fed beef, that's just an example.
deonb
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steingar
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What few of you understand is whatever idiotic diet you decide to do it will almost certainly not have lasting effects. The problem is simple. You have a diet in which you consume too many calories, so you get fat. You then go on your Adkins/Keto/Paleo/whatever, and get skinny. You then go back to your normal diet and get fat again. Duh (and I don't mean Toledo Suburban).
Someone said it. Calories out>calories in, you loose weight. Calories out<calories in you gain weight. Calories out=calories in, you don't gain weight. You can't exercise your way to skinny, the vast majority of the calories you burn are the ones keeping your body nice and toasty warm. Gotta eat right, or at least less. Portion control is your friend.
Your friendly neighborhood Steingar, who as of this writing weighs what he did in the 80's.
Someone said it. Calories out>calories in, you loose weight. Calories out<calories in you gain weight. Calories out=calories in, you don't gain weight. You can't exercise your way to skinny, the vast majority of the calories you burn are the ones keeping your body nice and toasty warm. Gotta eat right, or at least less. Portion control is your friend.
Your friendly neighborhood Steingar, who as of this writing weighs what he did in the 80's.
DaleB
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Unless, of course, your weight has been consistent or very slightly declining for the past 20 years or so, in which case your calories in are pretty much what you need.
Duh.
Fallsrider
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I understand it very well. The "Calories out<calories in" formula has been my life for the last 15 to 20 years. I need to lose about 30 lbs. I need to reverse the formula.
Neat, SGOTI's personal opinion. The point of Keto is to not eat grain. That's why you eat grass-fed beef, grass not being a grain, corn being a grain. That's why the book is called Grain Brain. He's (again) talking about Atkins and not Keto. Anyone who thinks you can consume grain-fed beef on Keto doesn't have the first iota of a clue what they're talking about.
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Except none of that is true. Do you think if someone ate nothing but 1,200 calories of pure sugar every day they'd lose weight?
You certainly can. But it won't happen with 30 minutes idling on the cardio bike a few days a week which most people who make this claim consider 'exercise'.
For exercise to figure into the weight equation, it has to be daily, at least moderate in intensity and be measured in hours. If you are on the bike at a 1000cal/hr level for two to three hours every day, your active calories are going to exceed your BMR pretty quickly.
As for staying warm and toasty. As I have gone back to the skinny side, my temperature tolerance has certainly gone down. There are just not the extra calories available to generate heat.
While that wouldn't be healthy for a number of reasons, a person with only moderate activity doing that would lose weight at a fairly good clip.
And that kind of esoteric **** is why it is so difficult to take the current crop of keto devotees seriously.
If you deprive your body of carbs, you are going to lose weight due to some quirks in metabolism. It works just the same without the hate on corn agriculture.
And I say for the 14th time, Keto is not Atkins - it is not about losing weight in and of itself. It is about brain health. Will you lose weight on Keto? In all likelihood yes. But that's not the goal.
Your brain health doesn't seem to be too good if you think that repeating your opinion a 14th time will make it the truth.
Maybe you and your guru don't do it for weight loss, but everyone else does (well, except for the seizure kids).
And for the 15th time, that's because most people think Keto is Atkins. It's not.
Atkins is a ketogenic diet. That's why it works.
I seriously give up.
Atkins himself discussed how to achieve ketosis. Seriously.
BrianNC
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The whole purpose of the Atkins diet is to get one in ketosis. That’s why the 2 week induction phase is so strict. 20 carbs or less and your carbs are basically from a salad, to insure one gets into ketosis. Then you begin to reintroduce ‘good’ carbs until you just stay in the edge of ketosis.
Although I think @mryan75 frustrstion may not be from that point.
Any diet that gets you into ketosis is a ‘keto’ diet. Although in the eating world ‘Keto Diet’ is used to denote specifically a diet high in fat and low in carbs. Where in Atkins you don’t intentionally eat higher fat like you do in the ‘Keto’ diet, it’s still a keto (ketosis) diet.
I believe you are correct on all points.
There were ketogenic diets before Atkins and there was Atkine before the current popularity of the concept. The biochemistry is the same.
The tiring thing with everything diet are devotees who get so focussed on their path to salvation that they ignore everything else. Vegetarians, Coopers grain eaters, Atkins,, Carnivores and Ketotics, they are equally intolerant. All of these things work if one sticks with the plan. Just a testament to the fact that we have the omnivore biology of the domestic pig. We can live on plants alone and we can live on piles of meat. Neither of them is 'right' or 'wrong'.