ASEL, no fire extinguisher on board: go or no go?

Way to go people, jump all over the guy with 23 posts and call him names.

Don't mind those asshats OP, they'll burn alive while you have the last laugh.

Personally, I want an extinguisher in these fifty year old buckets of bolts we're flying in.
 
This thread made me recall this story about an in-flight fire:

Real Pilot Story: Fire in the Cockpit

(Great, that sounds mildly perverted after the "Skin Zone" thread)

I fly all the time without an extinguisher but I'm about to join a club and the club plane has one. I guess no more wisecracks about all the precious floor space it uses up. It might help a little if the flames were licking at my legs.

Now are we going to debate why it's just as uncool to fly a C172 in a nomex flight suit as it is to fly a warbird without one? :D
 
Stewartb said:
Hell, I was serious. I have a fire extinguisher mounted to my pilot seat and I've used it a couple of times. After my second airplane ground fire experience I added one in my truck, too.
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I've carried them in every ground vehicle for decades. And at least two, usually more, in every vessel with an engine, motor, or stove. Any every aircraft other than flight school provided training aircraft.

Seneca V nose fire because of battery explosion - on ground. No extinguisher. Linemen unavailable. Burning nose cone dripped onto pavement.

Cherokee 180 behind panel electrical fire - during taxi, entering runway for takeoff. 180 exit to clear runway. Fire put out by onboard bottle before CFR arrived.

Truck carburetor fire - not me, but it took two of my extinguishers to put out the flames that had spread to wiring and oil/grime in engine compartment. I raced through a busy intersection against a red light.

VW bug cabin fire originated by cigarette igniting headliner. Total loss in spite of 5 extinguishers. Too engulfed by time of rescue.

Mazda sedan car fire - fire caused by failed exhaust system. Minimal damage because caught in time.

Boat explosion - operator of open skiff was seen pouring raw fuel into carb on outboard. 3 fatal right before my eyes.

Boat fire - 57' yacht newly built had diesel stove fire into exhaust stack. Extinguished then flared up when insulation in adjacent berth broke into open flame. Two 50# hand extinguishers saved the day.
 
I hadn't considered having one in my plane, but will be adding it to the list after reading this thread. Thanks OP.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think my Cirrus was the first plane I owned with a fire extinguisher.

My Sky Arrow did not come with one, but I added one:

11731898556_ba8d590788.jpg
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Holy Crap! How would you ever FIND the fire extinguisher with all that red interior!?? :yikes:

And yes, I would fly without one.
 
JHW said:
I have one in the plane, and I have one in the car. But these days the thing I'm more worried about are lithium batteries. The other day i was hanging around the hangar waiting for someone so i decided to take an oven mitt and try to throw my imaginary burning iphone out the little beechcraft vent window. I'm not sure i could do it before it burned through the mitt. I'm not yet carrying an oven mitt in the back seat pocket, but the whole issue gives me pause about letting everyone in the plane bring in 1 or 2 personal i-devices.
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They are most likely to ignite if damaged or while charging. We had a fire in my lab when a student was trying to charge a LiPo battery that (apparently) had a bad cell. He heard it hissing, saw it expand, and was able to drop it into an ammo can that another student had just happened to have left sitting on the table. The can contained the fire, but not the smoke - it actually bulged the can from the heat and pressure inside.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...cfc4dca1d2a9f22b02&oe=56BF9125&size=2048,1152
 
txflyer said:
Way to go people, jump all over the guy with 23 posts and call him names.

Don't mind those asshats OP, they'll burn alive while you have the last laugh.

Personally, I want an extinguisher in these fifty year old buckets of bolts we're flying in.
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I see one asshat, an order of magnitude more posters answering the question, and for some reason a bunch of posts reacting as if the asshat was the only one posting. Did posts get deleted or something?
 
James331 said:
Are your pax trying to stab their phones with knives?

From what I've seen it takes a bit to get one to go up.

I can tell you that you can bend a iPhone 6+ nearly 45 degrees and bend it back, it'll still work for a while, no fire, explosions or apocalypse.

I'd still be more worried about someone creaming you on the drive to the airport.
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They catch fire, it happens. We use them in lots of pieces of equipment and every year we have a few units out of a couple thousand that have a battery fire. As mentioned, it usually happens while charging.

In the plane I always have my ipad and iphone on charge, also the 496 battery. I worry about it. I don't have a ready solution other than to minimize the number of devices and limit charging time to what is required. I've actually removed the battery from the 496 as it was old and not working well anyway, that's one battery gone. The worst part is that the device i really need to keep on charge is the ipad and it's also the only one that won't fit through the window, it would have to go out the door.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think my Cirrus was the first plane I owned with a fire extinguisher.

My Sky Arrow did not come with one, but I added one:

11731898556_ba8d590788.jpg


That said...

1) The chances on any given flight of having a fire are vanishingly small.

2) The chances that you'll be able to reach such a fire with an extinguisher is even smaller.

But overall, cheap insurance.
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For some reason, "Balls of fire" enters my mind when I see that layout.
 
Who knew that fire extinguishers could lead to such a heated :rofl: discussion? I’ve been around long enough on other forums to expect being flamed. This kind of flaming I can handle. ;)

The examples noted above and an article I recently read in Flying Magazine illustrate circumstances where the use of a fire extinguisher in the cabin did or would have mitigated the situation. I’ll stand by my no-go decision and a fire extinguisher will always be on my personal minimum equipment list. We train to handle other remote events, such as engine outs, so being prepared for yet another remote event - especially when the opportunity cost of doing so is minimal - is an obvious conclusion for me. In my limited flying experience, I was frankly taken aback at encountering a rental aircraft that didn’t have a fire extinguisher on board, especially an aircraft that is part of a fleet also used for flight instruction. Every aircraft I’ve flown in to date had one. This is where my naiveté shows through based on some responses in this thread. But now I know that I should expect this omission more often in the rental fleets, and thereby be prepared by bringing my own unit as part of my flight bag. For that this thread has been most informative.
 
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If it makes you comfortable, then make sure you have one to carry with you.

But it wasn't a defect of the plane. It's not legally required in that plane and not even morally required to be there.

I would prefer to have one, but if it's not there, I'll go wanyway.
 
daemon said:
Who knew that fire extinguishers could lead to such a heated :rofl: discussion? I’ve been around long enough on other forums to expect being flamed. This kind of flaming I can handle. ;)

The examples noted above and an article I recently read in Flying Magazine illustrate circumstances where the use of a fire extinguisher in the cabin did or would have mitigated the situation. I’ll stand by my no-go decision and a fire extinguisher will always be on my personal minimum equipment list. We train to handle other remote events, such as engine outs, so being prepared for yet another remote event - especially when the opportunity cost of doing so is minimal - is an obvious conclusion for me. In my limited flying experience, I was frankly taken aback at encountering a rental aircraft that didn’t have a fire extinguisher on board, especially an aircraft that is part of a fleet also used for flight instruction. Every aircraft I’ve flown in to date had one. This is where my naiveté shows through based on some responses in this thread. But now I know that I should expect this omission more often in the rental fleets, and thereby be prepared by bringing my own unit as part of my flight bag. For that this thread has been most informative.
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I have three 172 rental planes. One of them has a fire extinguisher. It has it because it came with it.

Would I add one if someone told me that was a condition of them renting? Probably not. I'd just tell them to buy their own and bring it with.

You have to draw the line somewhere on safety and expense and useful load. Of the hundreds of airplanes I've flown I honestly can't think of more than one or two that had one.
 
Rentals are such a mixed bag. That's why I bought a plane (that and the only rental Navion I knew about was mine).

I've always had an extinguisher. I don't believe it's terribly useful, but it's a cheap safety thing to have that might provide some options in an emergency. Inflight fire is an absolute GRAVE EMERGENCY and you have little option usually than to put it on whatever piece of earth surface you have in close proximity.

I've had a friend who had a real fire and they got out of the plane just in time to watch it become fully involved.

Note that ANY inflight fire is a reportable event to the NTSB.

Now on my (wooden) boat I carry two extinguishers. The potential outcome isn't so dire in the waters I navigate in (hell even if I don't grab the life jacket on the way overboard, I'll probably make it to shore), however the liklihood of a fire given the way the engine is situated is much higher than on the plane.
 
Better make sure the plane has a chute before you get in as well.
 
I've asked the same question, especially after reading stories of pilots with in-flight fires. I realize they are very rare but then again they do happen and there's a simple solution.

None of our club planes have fire suppression so I carry a halon with my flight bag. Not really big but enough to hopefully create enough time for me to get the bird on the ground.
 
labbadabba said:
I've asked the same question, especially after reading stories of pilots with in-flight fires. I realize they are very rare but then again they do happen and there's a simple solution.

None of our club planes have fire suppression so I carry a halon with my flight bag. Not really big but enough to hopefully create enough time for me to get the bird on the ground.
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I don't know that I would call a fire extinguisher a "simple solution" to an in-flight fire.

Quite likely it's going to be worthless. And you kind of have to decide between being a pilot that is going to get the airplane on the ground ASAP versus being a fire fighter.

Doing both at the same time is quite likely not an option along with the strong possibility that you're not going to be able to do anything to put out the fire with the thing in the first place.
 
I helped my bro-in-law salvage some parts off an accident 185 that crashed after in in-flight fire. I guarantee that pilot would have fared better with a fire extinguisher. The chances that a pilot will need an extinguisher are far greater on the ground at start-up. I've put out two of my own and one in a plane that was parked next to me.
 
jesse said:
I don't know that I would call a fire extinguisher a "simple solution" to an in-flight fire.

Quite likely it's going to be worthless. And you kind of have to decide between being a pilot that is going to get the airplane on the ground ASAP versus being a fire fighter.

Doing both at the same time is quite likely not an option along with the strong possibility that you're not going to be able to do anything to put out the fire with the thing in the first place.
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Agree, but if flames are coming up under the panel and my legs are on fire I think I'd want a way to deal with that situation. It gives me piece of mind and I'm a chicken **** in the air anyway so if I can eliminate/reduce hazards I will.
 
If one were to use a fire extinguisher in flight, how do you evacuate the the spray and smoke without fanning the flames?
 
TFulwider said:
If one were to use a fire extinguisher in flight, how do you evacuate the the spray and smoke without fanning the flames?
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Hopefully you extinguished the fire/source, so opening the vents/windows will not stoke the flames while you clear the cabin of smoke.
 
Why in the hell would anyone want to carry a piece of equipment that is not mandatory? They cost money, add weight and take up space.

I mean, I know pilots who have older airplanes and they make all sort of mods to them and carry all sorts of equipment that is not required. WTF?

These idiots actually install not only fire extinguishers but they install things such as shoulder harnesses and even airbags on aircraft that the manufacturer decided not to. What are these people thinking? Do they really think they know best? Fools!

I also know several pilots who installed a 406 MHz ELT when the fed only requires the good ol' 121.5. Some of them even carry those newfangled PLB thingys. And don't get me started on a handheld VHF. Wastin' money I say.

If your balls are so small that you need all of this so called safety equipment to feel safe, maybe you shouldn't even fly. Flying is for real men who have no fear, not little girly boys.

Noobs like the OP should be ashamed that they ask questions like he did. He needs to pour gasoline over his head and light a match. Fire extinguisher my ass!

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
SkyDog58 said:
Why in the hell would anyone want to carry a piece of equipment that is not mandatory? They cost money, add weight and take up space.

I mean, I know pilots who have older airplanes and they make all sort of mods to them and carry all sorts of equipment that is not required. WTF?

These idiots actually install not only fire extinguishers but they install things such as shoulder harnesses and even airbags on aircraft that the manufacturer decided not to. What are these people thinking? Do they really think they know best? Fools!

I also know several pilots who installed a 406 MHz ELT when the fed only requires the good ol' 121.5. Some of them even carry those newfangled PLB thingys. And don't get me started on a handheld VHF. Wastin' money I say.

If your balls are so small that you need all of this so called safety equipment to feel safe, maybe you shouldn't even fly. Flying is for real men who have no fear, not little girly boys.

Noobs like the OP should be ashamed that they ask questions like he did. He needs to pour gasoline over his head and light a match. Fire extinguisher my ass!

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
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Do you think you could possibly state your point without making it a personal attack?
 
bflynn said:
I would kick myself for wasting air time asking someone else about whether or not a fire extinguisher was required by the KOEL rather than looking at it in the POH myself. Then I would go flying.

What's the question? You think you can't fly unless there's a fire extinguisher on board because...???

In the POH I found online for a 172N, the Fire Extinguisher is clearly marked as a -A item, meaning it is optional equipment. Go fly.

attachment.php
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Because when a fire in the cockpit starts, you want to be able to put it out.

Just go buy a portable Halon and have your own.
 
TFulwider said:
If one were to use a fire extinguisher in flight, how do you evacuate the the spray and smoke without fanning the flames?
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You wait. That's why you want a halon type extinguisher and not a CO2 or Dry Chem, you want to be able to continue to breath as long as possible before having to ventilate. Then crack the storm window gently, it will suck out smoke real quick with just a little crack.
 
Henning said:
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.
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Which I thought would have been pretty darned obvious to anyone who read the thread and understands sarcasm. I guess I should have added this before my post:

*****SARCASM ALERT!!!!*****​

Geesh.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Which I thought would have been pretty darned obvious to anyone who read the thread and understands sarcasm. I guess I should have added this before my post:

*****SARCASM ALERT!!!!*****​

Geesh.
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Yes you should've.
 
Henning said:
That is a truly sad indictment that you believe someone is at that level of stupid.:lol:
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Think what you want, but it was very similar to the early responses in this thread. And I absolutely believe that there are people stupid enough to post a response like that.
 
Henning said:
You wait. That's why you want a halon type extinguisher and not a CO2 or Dry Chem, you want to be able to continue to breath as long as possible before having to ventilate. Then crack the storm window gently, it will suck out smoke real quick with just a little crack.
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Halon displaces oxygen. That's how it works to extinguish a fire. If you're nearby and about to pull the trigger on a halon bottle, hold your breath. A halon extinguisher shoots a narrow concentrated stream of liquid that splashes and evaporates on contact with something solid. The flames are controlled immediately. My plane's door has an air leak conveniently located near my head so I'd have a fresh air source without opening a vent or window. Most planes have directional vents that will do the same thing without fanning the fire area.
 
Everskyward said:
Think what you want, but it was very similar to the early responses in this thread. And I absolutely believe that there are people stupid enough to post a response like that.
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That is why it is a "truly" sad indictment, there is truth there...
 
Stewartb said:
Halon displaces oxygen. That's how it works to extinguish a fire. If you're nearby and about to pull the trigger on a halon bottle, hold your breath. A halon extinguisher shoots a narrow concentrated stream of liquid that splashes and evaporates on contact with something solid. The flames are controlled immediately. My plane's door has an air leak conveniently located near my head so I'd have a fresh air source without opening a vent or window. Most planes have directional vents that will do the same thing without fanning the fire area.
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No sir it does not, it breaks the chain reaction at the molecular level and blocks oxidation basically with fluorine. When Halon first came out, DuPont had a trade show demo they did. Dude walked into a plexiglass box, they seal it, he pulls out a smoke and a Zippo lighter, lights it, smokes it... they discharge a can of Halon into the box and the lighter and smoke *poof* extinguish, and he keeps just standing there breathing. Mind you he died of cancer 15 years later, but that was a lot of exposure to smoking and Halon.
 
SkyDog58 said:
But I was assuming a certain level of intellect on here. I guess I was mistaken.
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It's very easy to interpret the written word in ways the author never intended. Is it the fault of the author or the reader?

In other words, if you want to make a point then the burden is on you to ensure the point is made by leaving no room for misinterpretation.

In this particular case you set yourself up for misinterpretation and gave few clues to the reader that you were being sarcastic. Now you follow that by attacking your audience. A facepalm emoticon is needed here.
 
Henning said:
No sir it does not, it breaks the chain reaction at the molecular level and blocks oxidation basically with fluorine. When Halon first came out, DuPont had a trade show demo they did. Dude walked into a plexiglass box, they seal it, he pulls out a smoke and a Zippo lighter, lights it, smokes it... they discharge a can of Halon into the box and the lighter and smoke *poof* extinguish, and he keeps just standing there breathing. Mind you he died of cancer 15 years later, but that was a lot of exposure to smoking and Halon.
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You got me on the way halon works but I call BS on the ability to breathe in the area where you shoot it. I'll buy the extinguisher if you'll stand in the booth to make a video. :)
 
Stewartb said:
You got me on the way halon works but I call BS on the ability to breathe in the area where you shoot it. I'll buy the extinguisher if you'll stand in the booth to make a video. :)
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At my last job (aviation parts sales place) they told me that these bottles over here are filled with halon and if one goes off or leaks to leave the area immediately because it will "suck the air out of your lungs".

Might be some common misperceptions. I couldn't find anything on google but I seem to remember something about my dad saying that they had halon bottles on the cargo deck of the C-17/C-5/An-124/etc that would totally flood the area and that they had to get to the cockpit before they went off.

Might be an OWT though. Who knows :dunno:
 
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