Remarks section NO SID NO STAR, problem solved.
Some old silliness. Once upon a time, More than 30 years ago*, SIDs and STARs were in a separate book than approach plates and pilots would add "no SID no STAR" to flight plan comments to indicate they didn't have the book.Why?
Some old silliness. Once upon a time, More than 30 years ago, SIDs and STARs were in a separate book than approach plates and pilots would add "no SID no STAR" to flight plan comments to indicate they didn't have the book.
For some strange reason it hung on even after the paper plates were consolidated. I guess there were (and still are) those who prefer to take down and manually enter a full route clearance longhand to seeing it nicely displayed on a chart, even with electronic charts and EFBs and panel avionics which allow you to load them by name.
My AF buddy taught me the three IFR truths:I don’t think you are going to be the one deciding.
Well, before GPS and even in the early days of GPS, you had to enter them manually anyway, but at least you had a chart to assist rather than confirming the spelling of waypoints when were in unfamiliar territory.That is what I was gonna say. I'd rather plug XXX.XXXXX1 into my FMS/GPS than having them read every single waypoint on the arrival, and then have to enter each separately. Saying "No SID/STAR" doesn't mean they are going to give you direct to the airport.
Well, before GPS and even in the early days of GPS, you had to enter them manually anyway, but at least you had a chart to assist rather than confirming the spelling of waypoints when were in unfamiliar territory.
Story: I had a friend some years back who complained about getting a SID after putting "No SIDs" in the remarks. When they gave him the SID anyway, he said, "I filed No SIDs." He was upset when the controller replied, "OK. I'll read it to you." Even more upset when, once enroute, they gave him direct to an intermediate waypoint - it was on the SID but not part of the longhand clearance and not enroute chart.
Yeah. When I said "enter them manually" I was referring to putting the odd radial/distance fixes in an VOR-based RNAV box. But yes, even that was one at a time entry/navigation.Before GPS navigators there was nothing to ‘enter’ them into. You wrote clearances down on paper with a pen and ‘navigated’ them with CDI’s and such. Yeah, the big iron dudes had FMS but even that don’t go back forever.
Yeah. When I said "enter them manually" I was referring to putting the odd radial/distance fixes in an VOR-based RNAV box. But yes, even that was one at a time entry/navigation.
I did not use those old RNAV boxes too much. I do have around 4,000 hours using the old Global VLF/Omega Series II. No data base and the total of 9 waypoints were entered using Lat/Long. It only held one flight plan, the current one. I thought it was great when I started using around 1986.
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I remember the first time I flew an airplane with a KNS-80. In my student pilot and instrument training days (without even DME), I found triangulating VORs natural and did it all the time to find airports, so when I suddenly had not only DME but the ability to create actual waypoints to directly fly to I thought I was in heaven!I did not use those old RNAV boxes too much.
Departures are for leaving. Arrivals are for arriving. I would file a departure from KGTU and an arrival into KSSF based on your scenario.
It does not matter if you are arriving and there is a departure with the same or similar routing. That is often the case and the procedures are designed to fit traffic flows into and out of busy airports. So the similar route for opposing traffic are either not used simultaneously or they have vertical planning to prevent conflicts with the opposite direction traffic.
In that case I would file direct CWK for the arrival.The departure and arrival he listed overlap so much that there's no practical way to file both.
https://skyvector.com/?ll=30.028721366623525,-97.97001984230208&chart=419&zoom=5&fpl= KGTU GARDS BNDIA CWK MARCS BRAUN TROOP CRISS KSSF
I think I would do the same.In that case I would file direct CWK for the arrival.
Remarks section NO SID NO STAR, problem solved.
I never file a SID nor STAR, but if given input them and fly. No need to try to predict where ATC is going to want you.
For 90% of my IFR flying in the Midwest I file direct. Only time I file anything different is if I'm going east around Chicago then I add KELSI, because you know you are going to KELSI to go south of the Class B.
For 90% of my IFR flying in the Midwest I file direct. Only time I file anything different is if I'm going east around Chicago then I add KELSI, because you know you are going to KELSI to go south of the Class B.
KELSI is an intersection on the SW side of Chicago's class B, out past Joliet. If you are IFR and below 10,000, going around the south side of Chicago, you will get routed to it. In my trips to/from Ohio and Michigan from Iowa, I just file it.Good point, although I have never seen KELSI mentioned on any of the SIDs or preferred routes.
KELSI is an intersection on the SW side of Chicago's class B, out past Joliet. If you are IFR and below 10,000, going around the south side of Chicago, you will get routed to it..
KELSI is an intersection on the SW side of Chicago's class B, out past Joliet. If you are IFR and below 10,000, going around the south side of Chicago, you will get routed to it. In my trips to/from Ohio and Michigan from Iowa, I just file it.
I one time asked to cut the corner and go direct before KELSI, controller just laughed sure clear direct destination via KELSI.
I know where it is, but I don't think I've see it mentioned on any of the SIDs. Given how commonly it is used, I would have thought it should be mentioned somewhere.
You can file what you’d like but your going to end up flying what ATC wants and assigns.
It doesn't solve any problem. They can still give you the SID in words, and then you have to read the whole thing back, which would be a bigger pain. I don't understand why people resist SIDs and STARs. If you are flying VFR, wouldn't you like to know what the local pilots use for landmarks such as that grain elevator, or water tower or quarry? SIDs are STARs are the IFR version of that. They are based around some prominent fix which the traffic funnels through. It is useful to know what that fix is, because even if you don't get the SID, chances are you are still going to get vectored to that fix before you go your own way. I never file a SID, but I always look them over to gather some knowledge about the local area.
For 90% of my IFR flying in the Midwest I file direct. Only time I file anything different is if I'm going east around Chicago then I add KELSI, because you know you are going to KELSI to go south of the Class B.
KELSI is an intersection on the SW side of Chicago's class B, out past Joliet. If you are IFR and below 10,000, going around the south side of Chicago, you will get routed to it. In my trips to/from Ohio and Michigan from Iowa, I just file it.
I one time asked to cut the corner and go direct before KELSI, controller just laughed sure clear direct destination via KELSI.
Good point, although I have never seen KELSI mentioned on any of the SIDs or preferred routes.