Arrest for the first time...

I

idiot

Guest
So I messed up. Bad. Went out with some buddies and ending up drinking a bit too much. I've been charged with alcohol intoxication (First offense), disorderly conduct, 2nd degree, menacing and criminal mischief (I ripped a guys shirt). I've never been arrested before and my court day is in a few days. I talked to the arresting officer today. I apologized and told him I just had too much. He says he is going to try to get most of it dropped. I've never been in any trouble before. Now, I need to know what to report to the FAA. The FAR's say arrest and convictions, but it seems like a grey area to me. I'm also terrified now. I'm almost done with CFI and now i'm afraid i'll be un hire able as both a instructed and a future airline pilot.
 
Get a lawyer

And don't be a sucker, that cop ain't your friend and will try to f' you the best he can

Lawyer, ASAP
 
I personally know the cop. I used to be in law enforcement. I don't think he will rail me. I'll probably have to go for a public defender. If the case is dropped, would I still have to report anything?
 
I personally know the cop. I used to be in law enforcement. I don't think he will rail me. I'll probably have to go for a public defender. If the case is dropped, would I still have to report anything?
 
Future airline pilot??? May not be good. It might be okay, but it will indeed be akward in the interview. We all are held responsible for our actions. If it was a simple disorderly, I would say fess up and no big deal. That said, you have been charged with a laundry list if more serious crimes.

I do wish you luck.
 
Is it really that bad? They are all misdemeanor charges and hopefully most of them will be dropped. Am i really that screwed? I've never been arrested before and i'm hoping to get them expunged afterwords.
 
A few have said to get a lawyer. You reject that good, solid advice. So, what was the reason you bothered to ask?

You say you acted like an idiot. You can continue to act like one or try a different direction.
 
This is going to sound mean but I have to question...if you have difficulty exercising self control and good judgement, have poor decision making skills (for example not getting a lawyer in a case that could effect your future and career) then maybe being a CFI and working in a heavily government regulated business isn't the best career choice for you.

Borrow the money do what you have to get a LAWYER! I wish you luck.
 
I really appreciate it. I rarely drink and we were out celebrating and it got out of hand. I'll have to consult someone soon. My court day is in 9 days. I'm hoping they will go easy on me, being former law enforcement and having no priors.
 
Point being, the decision to prosecute isn't up to the cop. Once the charging documents are filed, it's up to the prosecutor. The apology, first offense and all that may work in your favor, have an attorney make that case to the states attorney and make a deal before you get to the judge. In MD, we have something called the Stet docket, where cases can be placed, and if no further complaints are filed for a period of time, the case goes away. Your state may have something like it, or another option, but only an attorney can get it done. You may escape prosecution, but you will always have been arrested if you are the be truthful when asked.

You really need an attorney, go to the courthouse and ask around. Somebody'll help you out, and probably for not a lot of money given your background on the job. Everybody screws up sometime, nobody got hurt.
 
Short answer is, you have to report all "arrests" regardless if you are convicted. Some have to be reported within 60 days, some at your next medical. My guess is, if all the charges get dropped, you will probably be able to fly, but will have to explain the arrests forever. If convicted on some, who knows? But you certainly need some good help like everyone else has said. A consult with an aviation attorney and maybe a chat with your AME. I would further suggest a long sit down and study of the applicable FAR's own your own. Lastly, you need to grow up. I don't feel an ounce of sorrow for you, if you have flown enough to be going for your CFI, you knew better.
 
I deserve that. I'm beating myself up about it. I came this far and in one night It's possible I've ruined it all.
 
Yes you do, but honestly, the thing that is uglier than stupidity is self pity. You have gotten all the advice you need. If you are a commercial rated pilot, you have seen adversity before and overcome it. Now get off the damn internet and get busy repairing your life.
 
Can't do much now. It's Sunday and no attorney's office is open. I've been digging through the FAR's and the internet about how to approach this. All signs lead to an aviation lawyer.
 
Mike Smith said:
Short answer is, you have to report all "arrests" regardless if you are convicted.
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We just went down this road a few weeks ago and I believe the above to be FALSE.

You must report arrests that involve DWI type offenses, i.e. involving a motor vehicle. The section regarding non-motor vehicle offenses still references conviction only. I interpret the OP's situation as not involving a motor vehicle. If my interpretation is accurate, and charges are dropped, then he will NOT have to report.

OP, you been told many times to hire a lawyer. You say you can't afford one. I say you can't afford NOT TO hire one.
 
Op here again. To clearly, it did not evolve a motor vehicle what so ever. As far as the lawyer is concerned, i'll have a public defender at the very least, i'm hoping for an aviation lawyer though.
 
Seriously dude. I'm former Leo as well and if you are former Leo as you state, you know the paperwork isn't worth it unless you deserve it. I would never stroke out a current or former Leo unless...... Well you know what I'm saying. Since you know the system and how it works, I'd make a few calls but I'm guessing your not going to get very far based on my first point.
 
timwinters said:
We just went down this road a few weeks ago and I believe the above to be FALSE.

You must report arrests that involve DWI type offenses, i.e. involving a motor vehicle. The section regarding non-motor vehicle offenses still references conviction only. I interpret the OP's situation as not involving a motor vehicle. If my interpretation is accurate, and charges are dropped, then he will NOT have to report.

OP, you been told many times to hire a lawyer. You say you can't afford one. I say you can't afford NOT TO hire one.
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You are right, I was painting with a very broad brush in this case. It was unclear to me, so I just generalized.
 
beg borrow or steal a lawyerlawyerlawyer. Way too important to DIY or hope for the best with your connections. In 5 years you may really regret not getting a lawyer.
 
Also, at this point in time you don't need an aviation atty IMO. You don't need an atty who knows aviation. You need a local boy who plays golf with the judge. Remember...

...a good atty knows the law, a great atty knows the judge.
 
Yes, it's Sunday, but if your hearing is in 9 days, you have no time to waste. Many small law practices have a website and an email address. Compose an email that you can send out to several law firms, stating your issues.

You have two problems, and they might best be handled by different attorneys. The criminal matter obviously needs a good local criminal attorney who knows the procedures in the court with jurisdiction over your case.

The other issue is whether you must report the arrest. For that, you may not need a local attorney (the regs are federal), so you can look farther afield. AOPA may have ideas.

You have a narrow question that probably does not involve more than a few billable hours (maybe somewhere between $300 and $500) to get an answer you can reasonably rely on, and point to in any future interactions with FAA.

Look up the website for your state bar association; many have tools for finding lawyers in various specialties. Ask the attorney his hourly rate for a simple initial consult. Also, study the FARs on your own so you can speak intelligently with the attorney. The less time he has to spend explaining basics to you, the less it costs.

I wish you success.
 
I can not believe anybody who is a recreational pilot will be indigent enough for a public defender. The PD isn't some default for those unwilling to pay for an attorney. You need to obtain proper counsel, even if it means putting off flying for a while.
 
Well, if he were already a CFI I have no doubt he'd qualify...

OP, go down to the courthouse, make nice with some of the folks who work in the clerk's office or someone who's on premises every day, and ask a few which local guy has the best rep for alcohol violations. They'll know. Get a name. If court's in session, sit in the gallery and see who gets the best result in similar cases. There's a woman I knew in MD who literally never loses, primarily because she doesn't take cases she can't win. You won't get info like that from a website.

This isn't a Perry Mason murder trial. It's basically a drunk and disorderly first offense. Bring your copy of the charging documents with you when you go in case somebody's available. The first thing they'll do is make sure they are technically correct.

A good guy will probably get this done in an hour on the day of your hearing. Tell whoever represents you of your special situation as a pilot.

I'm not an attorney, but one of my consulting gigs had me hanging around district court quite a bit.
 
Solid advice, Hopefully Bruce Chein will clock in with some more info. Upon reading the FAR's and FAA information, to my understanding i'll only have to report it if i'm convicted.
 
Mike Smith said:
Short answer is, you have to report all "arrests" regardless if you are convicted.
Click to expand...
Can you point to the rule or other FAA document that says this? I'm not familiar with it.

I'm familiar with the requirements for reporting "motor vehicle actions," for reporting certain arrests an convictions on a medical application, and for reporting drug-related convictions on a pilot certificate or rating application. But I'm not familiar with a rule like the one you are talking about.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Can you point to the rule or other FAA document that says this? I'm not familiar with it.

I'm familiar with the requirements for reporting "motor vehicle actions," for reporting certain arrests an convictions on a medical application, and for reporting drug-related convictions on a pilot certificate or rating application. But I'm not familiar with a rule like the one you are talking about.
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"Application Process for Medical Certification

Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
w. History of nontraffic convictions
The applicant must report any other (nontraffic) convictions (e.g., assault, battery, public intoxication, robbery, etc.). The applicant must name the charge for which convicted and the date of the conviction(s), and copies of court documents (if available). (See Item 47)"

Just mentions convictions, not arrest. From how I interpret it, you have to report both an arrest and convictions if it's a DUI/DWI.
 
Then again....

"Do I have to report anything other than alcohol and/or drug related convictions?
Yes, under 14 CFR Part 61, you must report alcohol and/or drug related administrative actions, whether a conviction took place or not. Arrests, administrative actions and convictions are also reportable under Part 67, the airman application for a medical certificate."

Seems conflicting to me. That's why'd I'd Bruce to chime in.
 
Dude you are wasting your time spinning your wheels. So far everyone has given you one piece of advice, actually one word.... LAWYER!
 
idiot said:
"Application Process for Medical Certification

Applicant History - Item 18. Medical History
w. History of nontraffic convictions
The applicant must report any other (nontraffic) convictions (e.g., assault, battery, public intoxication, robbery, etc.). The applicant must name the charge for which convicted and the date of the conviction(s), and copies of court documents (if available). (See Item 47)"

Just mentions convictions, not arrest. From how I interpret it, you have to report both an arrest and convictions if it's a DUI/DWI.
Click to expand...
YOU do NOT get to interpret the FARs. As noted here, you need 2 lawyers. One for the civil/criminal actions. The other, someone who specializes in aviation law. Stop whining. You want to be in the aviation business? You've had more than sufficient recommendations from people who are experts at this. And you need them at the same time. The av lawyer needs to explain to the other lawyer the issues, that a plea agreement or similar action where you admit to something may or may not be in your best interest down the line.

midlifeflyer is an attorney, just not aviation. But he knows enough av law to tell you the correct approach you need to take.

Stop looking for the loophole. That's what the lawyers are for. You know flying, they know the law. Until you go to law school, stop trying to interpret the FARs.
 
I've already reached out. I won't have a response until tomorrow. I didn't mean to come off as whining and i'm not looking for loopholes. Just some clarification while I'm waiting.
 
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