Area 796 Support cancelled

[John Meeks]

I have an Area 796 that is my standby GPS in case of a power failure, and I use it for weather, and xm radio.It is less than 3 years old, and has developed an internal problem that when patched into my panel, (professionally done by a certified Garmin shop) it broadcast static such that my aircraft is INOP. I have been told by Garmin that they are not offering repairs or replacements until January of 2018. This is really unacceptable as it is my backup in case of a power failure. This effectively has me flying with no backup, and has diminished my confidence with my GTN 750 as well.

Garmin is asking pilots to expose themselves to the very perils which Garmin's products are supposed to be the solution for.

Ian, Garmin's telephone support rep told me that even though the screens were the real issue as they are unavailable, Garmin chose to stop all support of the 796.

I had pre-ordered Garmin's G-500 Autopilot to replace my existing single axis, but am now wondering if that is a mistake.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

They still support the 430/530s...this is the world of uncertified avionics, they are relatively cheap, they don't make much money on DB subscriptions, if they stop selling, they drop them like a bad habit.
iPod with FF or GP is killing the dedicated handhelds.
The 500 won't have that problem.

 

[JohnAJohnson]

I know the feeling. Lowrance quit supporting my 2000C 1.1 years after I bought it - no charts, no repairs, no nothing. This was a heads-up that any of these guys can stop supporting any piece of avionics, panel or portable, no matter how expensive, anytime they feel like it and the owner could be left screwed.

 

[frfly172]

It's all about the money they support their products untill they have a new arrival,then all bets are off.just saying as I have had most of their portables from the 155 up.

 

[kyleb]

796's are still for sale at all of the major outlets and Garmin's website makes no mention of it being a discontinued product. I assume the support problem is a temporary issue.

 

[Stewartb]

The latest 796 software update release was 2 months ago. I'm not sure what support they may have cancelled. Are you certain your static issue is internal to your 796? How do you "patch" it into your panel? Has your professional installation shop looked at it?

 

[Stan Cooper]

So far, one voter out of twelve has had a problem with Garmin or Garmin support. Personally, I've been very happy with my Garmin products and support.

 

[Matthew]

I have been told by Garmin that they are not offering repairs or replacements until January of 2018.

Maybe it's a spare parts issue?

 

[Jim_R]

I can understand your disappointment, but your response seems a bit extreme, at least from the information you've provided here. It sounds like the unit functions fine except for when it's connected to the panel (presumably for some audio capability, though you don't really explain what the "patch" is for or how it's connected, so I could be misunderstanding). Presuming further, you could continue to use the 796 without establishing the "patch" and thus maintain backup navigation without audio.

Many (the majority of?) portable nav device users use their devices without connecting them to ship's audio. I don't understand how this "effectively has me flying with no backup". I also don't understand why a problem with an uncertified portable unit would "diminish your confidence" in the certified GTN750.

If Garmin doesn't have parts, they don't have parts. From one online retailer:

SHIPPING STATUS: Due to a touch-panel supply issue, the Garmin aera 796 will experience a gap in unit production. Garmin is working diligently to restore aera 796 production as expeditiously as possible, however current estimates from Garmin indicate that they will resume shipping in December 2017. All orders will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis. We never charge you until we ship and you can cancel your order at any time prior to shipment. Your order now will simply reserve your place in line when this resumes shipping in December.

You may have an issue that's an annoyance, and it may be disappointing that Garmin won't deal with it immediately, but this hardly sounds like something to make a federal case over.

(And if it's a power issue, have you considered alternate power sources like a portable 12V battery? Something like this might make a lousy jump-start solution, but a perfectly fine power source for small electronics.)

 

[Stewartb]

FWIW I've always connected my Garmin portables to aircraft power. Never a hint of any interference. I'm no electronics guy but how a gps receiver can suddenly create static is a curiosity. I'd like to hear what it takes to resolve the problem.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

It's all about the money they support their products untill they have a new arrival,then all bets are off.just saying as I have had most of their portables from the 155 up.

That may be true, but I would tend to believe the touch screens could be difficult to find.

I am in an industry that produces electronic devices, and the obsolescence rate on components, particularly on something like a touch screen is huge.

This device was released in 2011. Engineering likely started several years prior.

I would be relatively assured that a low resolution, 480 x 800 pixel touch screen from around 2009 is obsolete, is not being spec'd into any new consumer devices, and will be very hard to come by once Garmin's inventory is depleted.

This will continue to be the bane of the electronic gizmos we are paying big dollars for in our panels.

 

[timwinters]

I would be relatively assured that a low resolution, 480 x 800 pixel touch screen from around 2009 is obsolete, is not being spec'd into any new consumer devices, and will be very hard to come by once Garmin's inventory is depleted.

I know absolutely nothing about this so pardon this question if it's totally ignorant but...

...why couldn't Garmin simply mfgr retrofit touch screens with today's higher resolution?

 

[Mistake Not...]

At a guess, judging from the one instance I'm familiar with:
* Dimensions, mounting points, connectors, power supply (voltage / current), EMI, etc. have to match old display.
* Certification was done with another display, vibe / shock testing would have to be redone (if any).
* Software would have to be modified. I can only guess, but I would imagine the fonts / rendering are display specific. This would trigger a bunch of stuff related to software development / verification / validation processes. (Edit: And the potential to now have to support multiple software versions, depending on display type. )

 

[Grum.Man]

I'm not really sure why anyone would buy a portable GPS like the Garmin 796. Foreflight can do everything the 796 can and runs on an Ipad that will be supported and repairable for years. If not, trash the ipad and buy another one for a few hundred bucks.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

I know absolutely nothing about this so pardon this question if it's totally ignorant but...

...why couldn't Garmin simply mfgr retrofit touch screens with today's higher resolution?

Sure they could.

Which would require engineering support to likely redesign multiple components and/or connectors, as well as software revisions. And pass whatever their internal testing, advanced aging, and certification processes are.

That would take away recourses that would otherwise be working on the next new product.

And that effort would leave them with an 8 year old design and underpowered processor waiting for the next component to obsolete and start all over.

Garmin apparently has a larger priority in their portfolio to support.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Here's a used one that recently sold on EBay for $450.

Best fix for the problem, if you like the 796. If not, buy another model. I'm still coaxing my 296 along as a backup. Does the job just fine, and I can still get database updates.

But yes, the care and feeding of modern electronics sucks. Many of our shiny screens will be treated as disposable items when they create problems.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Garmin-Aera-...f6e27976fffffc96%7Ciid%3A6#vi__app-cvip-panel

 

[Mistake Not...]

I don't care if they go obsolete. I like upgrades.

What sucks is a fast product cycle when the damn things cost half* what my plane does. Get 'em down to mobile phone / laptop prices and I'll look forward to upgrading.

* For the literal interpretation crowd, I'm exaggerating for effect here.

 

[timwinters]

So far, one voter out of twelve has had a problem with Garmin or Garmin support. Personally, I've been very happy with my Garmin products and support.

Stan,

Do you remember back in the days when we were all on CPA...or was it CPS?...about 8 or 10 years ago when the 396/496 series were all the rage?

Remember how the charging cords used to come apart at the end that plugged into the back of the unit?

Remember how it was revealed that Garmin was instructing their "front line" phone answering techs to deny that there was a known issue even though they knew damned well that these cables were lasting, on average, less than six months?

Remember how these techs were denying warranty repair status unless you told them that you knew better, you knew what to say and proved to them that you knew the secret warranty handshake.

Remember how Dave Johnson (the one from Colorado, not the one from Arkansas) came up with the idea of supergluing the inner and outer bodies of this plug together and that fixed the problem?

Too bad his fix was 4 charging cables (two of which I bought because of Garmin's denials) into my experience with my 496.

And then there's my GNC300XL. All the plastic on the face, including all the buttons, became extremely "sticky" about 6 or 7 years after it was installed. The plastic seemed to be decomposing, like it had sat out on the street, face up, in the sun for six years. Except the plane had always been hangared. Nope, Garmin said they had no known issues. Send it back and we'll fix it for the $1,000 flat fee...(or whatever the fee was at the time)...sucker!

Amazingly, no other brand of radio I've ever owned, even those 3 to 4 times older, have ever done this.

Nahhh, even though I really like Ted, I won't cut Garmin any slack when it comes to customer service.

It's nice to have a virtual monoply.

 

[bnt83]

I've noticed the Flight Stream 510 was released way too early, in fact advertised functions did not work, I'll be watching for software updates and if they are "warranty reimbursable." So far the only way the updates would be at no cost is if the dealer eats the labor to update it. I believe the latest FS510 fixes require a GTN software update to work, again who's paying for it?

 

[Stan Cooper]

It's nice to have a virtual monoply.

Tim, in my own experience I've had Garmin portables (GPSmap 295 in 2000, GPSmap 396 in 2008, and just purchased aera 660), and I've never had a problem with any of them (well, except a couple of times due to operator error which were quickly resolved with calls to customer support). Likewise, I've never had a problem with my panel mounted SL-30 or GTX 327.

The OP's question was "Have you had problems with your Garmin avionics, or them supporting their products?" For me with 17 years experience using their products, the answer to that question is no. Maybe I've just been lucky.