Are buyers always like this?

[JoseCuervo]

I did assume that 60k was the top of his budget. there was nothing prior to that to make me think differently.

What is the value of attempting to make an assumption of the potential buyer's bank account?

If a guy has a budget of $260k, do you assume that he can't afford to maintain the plane later, and should really be looking at $200k planes?

I can afford $50k leather trimmed, expensive PU's with custom items, and outrageous stereos, custom wheels and tires, etc.... etc....

But, when I go buy a PU, I set a budget that may be less than $50k for any of a bazillion reasons. My budget, and the reason for the budget, has no affect on the price the seller will ultimately decide to accept.


Moving on, what classifies as "low ball"? Is it $0.50 on the dollar? $0.60 on the dollar? $0.75 on the dollar?

Where does the line cross from "shrewd" to "low-ball"?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Moving on, what classifies as "low ball"? Is it $0.50 on the dollar? $0.60 on the dollar? $0.75 on the dollar?

Where does the line cross from "shrewd" to "low-ball"?

That is probably subjective I suspect. Personally I would say a low ball offer is something ridiculous like the previously mentioned offer of $500-1500 for an airworthy Apache. Others might think 20% below the asking price is a low ball.

 

[BillyBH]

Obviously we all do things different. If I low ball someone, it's gonna be on a tired product, that the seller hasn't touched in a few years. I bought a rough Porsche a few months back that was asking $2800 and I paid $1500 which is low ball. I was there, I had the money, but I didn't offer $1500 on the phone. If I'm a buyer, I go where the product is. If I'm just a BS artist, I make an offer and expect it to be rejected.

I'd like to hear from ONE person here who's accepted a low-ball offer in their life. Not me, I'd rather let it sit and rot to dust.

Well, I think people that would rather let it sit and rot to dust are idiots. I accepted a low ball offer on a boat I did not use and was deteriorating more and more every day.... Like lots of airplanes. I wanted to sell it. I got probably slightly less than what it was "worth", but being petulant and letting it rot to dust serves no one.

 

[Tom-D]

What is the value of attempting to make an assumption of the potential buyer's bank account?

Wasn't it you that said in post 43

people may have a budget (loan approval or cash on hand) that limits them to $XXXX dollars."

now you criticize me for making that assumption as to that is what he referred to as his budget?

The conclusion you should have drawn was that you should never use all your budget as the purchase price.

use all your bank account to buy, then get hit with the 14k annual, nice position to be in, right?

 

[douglas393]

I have been reading this thread and wondering whether I should post. Against my better judgment I will.

In the world of purchasing there is a buyer and a seller. They have a thing in common but with different goals. The common thing is the object for sale call it an airplane. The goal of the seller is to sell it for as much as possible and make as much of a profit as possible or limit their losses as much as possible. The goal of the buyer is to purchase the item for as little as possible. This is how capitalism works.

I have sold a number of houses, and bought a number of houses. I will be honest I never cared whether my asking price or offering price was going to insult someone. I knew what my goals were, and sorry for being blunt I was not worried about hurting feelings. If the seller did not like my offer, he could counter or he could tell me to take a walk. How he would respond would not hurt my feelings. I knew his goals and would assume he knew mine. At the end of the day we could come to terms that were mutually agreeable or not. It was my choice to accept his offer, and it was his choice to accept mine. No one was forcing us to do anything else.

That is how life is. So if I sell my plane, house, boat, etc, I will come up with a number I think is reasonable by whatever method I choose. I will add some amount to this number to give me bargaining room and that is what I will ask. If it is too high, no one will give me an offer. If it is too low I will probably sell it faster.

In a seller's market sellers have the upper hand. In a buyer's market buyers have the advantage. I have played both roles in both markets, that is just the way capitalism is. Getting emotional about it or being insulted does not help the situation. It is a business transaction, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win, sometimes you do both at the same time.


Good luck on selling your plane.

Doug

 

[docmirror]

Well, I think people that would rather let it sit and rot to dust are idiots. I accepted a low ball offer on a boat I did not use and was deteriorating more and more every day.... Like lots of airplanes. I wanted to sell it. I got probably slightly less than what it was "worth", but being petulant and letting it rot to dust serves no one.

Yes, but they're idiots who didn't take a lowball offer. How do you know letting it rot doesn't serve the owner?

 

[onwards]

Yes, but they're idiots who didn't take a lowball offer. How do you know letting it rot doesn't serve the owner?

Obviously it does - not everyone is motivated by financial self interest. People will often make stupid financial decisions to serve an emotional need, and not just in buying and selling stuff (retirement savings is a well-know area).

Taken strictly in the context of selling aircraft, many folks will "hold on until the right offer comes", in the meantime costing themselves a lot of money, for no good FINANCIAL reason. Many do it for pride, or because they dislike the feeling of being screwed (remember, this is subjective), or the far more common difficulty in taking a loss that makes many, many people ride stocks down to zero. It doesn't make them idiots, just human.

 

[Tom-D]

But it was Grandpa's aircraft it must be worth more than that

 

[SONICMASD]

You can always counter. I am not advocating low balling to an insulting level, but sometimes its just a bargaining position. When I get a super lowball offer I counter with the asking price. Sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't.

I have a friend who discourages haggling when he sells something by INCREASING the price whenever anyone offers a lower price:

Seller: "The price is $3,000"
Buyer: "Will you take $2,500?"
Seller: "I can do $3,500"
Buyer: "Wait, what? Okay, how about $2,750"
Seller: "Okay, I'll go down to $3,250"

Seriously, I've seen him do it many times.

 

[Tom-D]

I have a friend who discourages haggling when he sells something by INCREASING the price whenever anyone offers a lower price:

Seller: "The price is $3,000"
Buyer: "Will you take $2,500?"
Seller: "I can do $3,500"
Buyer: "Wait, what? Okay, how about $2,750"
Seller: "Okay, I'll go down to $3,250"

Seriously, I've seen him do it many times.

Every time I'm selling and enter into haggling I loose money.

 

[Jaybird180]

Then use the example above - LOL

 

[Henning]

A seller wouldn't be a seller unless he was willing to sell. He has to accept what the buyer/market is willing to pay or retain ownership. Yes its that simple.

Yes and no. Sellers can set a sale price as easily as buyers can set a buy price, either they can make a deal or not. You can buy my plane for $80k, but not $40k.

 

[ja_user]

I have a friend who discourages haggling when he sells something by INCREASING the price whenever anyone offers a lower price:

Seller: "The price is $3,000"
Buyer: "Will you take $2,500?"
Seller: "I can do $3,500"
Buyer: "Wait, what? Okay, how about $2,750"
Seller: "Okay, I'll go down to $3,250"

Seriously, I've seen him do it many times.

That, is awesome!

 

[SCCutler]

I have a friend who discourages haggling when he sells something by INCREASING the price whenever anyone offers a lower price:

Seller: "The price is $3,000"
Buyer: "Will you take $2,500?"
Seller: "I can do $3,500"
Buyer: "Wait, what? Okay, how about $2,750"
Seller: "Okay, I'll go down to $3,250"

Seriously, I've seen him do it many times.

Good for him; nothing wrong with this at all.

If you counter to a seller with a lower price or different terms, do so with an open understanding that you may not get the goods at all. I know researchers claim people want to have a haggling session when they buy a car (for example), but I have not a clue who those people might be. I prefer trading with someone who places a fair and fixed price on the goods or services, and delivers with good value and service. For this, I gladly pay the asking price.

That's how I bought my Suburban; car by side of the road in a small town (place populated by good honest folk), had a price and an honest description of condition. Price listed as "firm." My research said it was a good price, so I called the guy up, asked a couple of questions, and said "the price seems fair, so assuming here's nothing in the way it drives that concerns me, I'll take it." Seller said, "I think you'll like it, but if you don't deal's off."

I flew down, drove it a mile or two, knew it was as represented, gave him the check (personal check, no issues), and drove it home. That was two years ago, and it has been perfect. Bet I could sell it for what I paid today.

 

[Tom-D]

Good for him; nothing wrong with this at all.

If you counter to a seller with a lower price or different terms, do so with an open understanding that you may not get the goods at all. I know researchers claim people want to have a haggling session when they buy a car (for example), but I have not a clue who those people might be. I prefer trading with someone who places a fair and fixed price on the goods or services, and delivers with good value and service. For this, I gladly pay the asking price.

That's how I bought my Suburban; car by side of the road in a small town (place populated by good honest folk), had a price and an honest description of condition. Price listed as "firm." My research said it was a good price, so I called the guy up, asked a couple of questions, and said "the price seems fair, so assuming here's nothing in the way it drives that concerns me, I'll take it." Seller said, "I think you'll like it, but if you don't deal's off."

I flew down, drove it a mile or two, knew it was as represented, gave him the check (personal check, no issues), and drove it home. That was two years ago, and it has been perfect. Bet I could sell it for what I paid today.

It's all in knowing a good deal when you see it.

 

[wabower]

If you're booking odds on market value, place your bet that the buyers will have done more market research than the sellers. That doesn't mean a buyers' initial offer will reflect the results of this research, but they will typically know more about the number of airplanes for sale and by whom for how much than will sellers. The reason the know more isn't because they're smarter, it's because they have the option of pursuing many different airplanes while the seller has only one for sale.

It's all in knowing a good deal when you see it.

 

[BillyBH]

Bottom line is its only worth what someone will pay you. It simply doesn't matter how much you have " invested" ( hah!). I'm not advocating offering one tenth of vref, but 90% of vref is not an insult. I recently offered $83K on an asking price of $85K. I also offered to fund the first $2000 of a new annual. He responded with the earlier gents technique with $86K. This was after I flew from Florida to New Jersey to look at the airplane. F*** him. He came back twice with 85, then 84. Very few of us need an airplane. He is an idiot. The plane still sits. It can rot for all I care.

That "up the ante" technique should only be used when you are blowing off the would be buyer. It really irritates a genuine buyer.

 

[Steve Foley]

gave him the check (personal check, no issues), and drove it home.

I don't know many people that will take a check. I recently purchased a vehicle and traded a check for the title. Once I had it registered and insured, I picked it up. By then my (local) check had cleared.