AOPA Jet

Lindberg said:
So they should just outright bribe congressmen?
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Slippery slope much? I think there are other uses for member donations that aren't either private jet expenses or bribes
 
Kristin said:
They may be on their second jet. Back around 2007, Phil Boyer flew into my local airport to give away a Cherokee Six. He came in on a jet. I think it was a CJ, but not 100% on that. While I still belong to AOPA, after that, I throw out all their epistles bleating for donations -- unopened.
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N4GA was a CJ3. That N-number is now on an '89 Bonanza also registered to AOPA.
 
Darn, can’t track 4GA on holiday weekends to find where the parties are now. What’s the jets tail number?
 
She's a witch! Burn her!
 
I gladly pay the $$$ for AOPA and EAA. I also gladly pay my union dues.
These are LOBBYING organizations. Plain and simple. They represent the little guy, medium guy, and the big guys. It’s cheaper for me to spend a few hundred bucks a year versus me flying to DC and meeting with politicians and pushing my agenda.
Maybe most of the active GA doesn’t use their birds for business trips but I assure you that most high dollar birds do have a legitimate purpose. An active business team can hit up three clients in 8 hours and be home for supper and sleep in their own beds at night. Try doing that with Delta.
 
YooperMooney said:
I gladly pay the $$$ for AOPA and EAA. I also gladly pay my union dues.
These are LOBBYING organizations.
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AOPA has turned itself into a holding company for tens of millions of dollars of cash. If its dues were akin to EAA's dues, it would make a lot more sense, but AOPA's dues are 2x as much, and again, AOPA is sitting on tens of millions of dollars in liquid assets. It ain't like the organization is struggling for liquidity, so I don't understand the high dues unless they are building reserves for a 20 year long golden parachute for the Senior Leadership beginning after the last GA aircraft has been retired or outlawed.
 
strangebird said:
Some one has a home in the Keys, that is why all the flights to Marathon, you would think AOPA would block the tail # so members would not see the free ride someone is getting on the members dime, today they are in Idaho , skiing or another home, they picked someone up in MN first then to Idaho.
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Baker lives down there
 
YooperMooney said:
I gladly pay the $$$ for AOPA and EAA. I also gladly pay my union dues.
These are LOBBYING organizations. Plain and simple. They represent the little guy, medium guy, and the big guys. It’s cheaper for me to spend a few hundred bucks a year versus me flying to DC and meeting with politicians and pushing my agenda.
Maybe most of the active GA doesn’t use their birds for business trips but I assure you that most high dollar birds do have a legitimate purpose. An active business team can hit up three clients in 8 hours and be home for supper and sleep in their own beds at night. Try doing that with Delta.
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I wouldnt have a problem if they actually spent the cash lobbying. Why do they need to sit with so much cash in reserve? What is it right now? $50mil? EAA seems to get more done and is more responsible with members cash, (and I say that as someone who is not a fan of Pelton)
 
deftone said:
I wouldnt have a problem if they actually spent the cash lobbying. Why do they need to sit with so much cash in reserve? What is it right now? $50mil? EAA seems to get more done and is more responsible with members cash, (and I say that as someone who is not a fan of Pelton)
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War chest money. Would you rather they kept it at $1M? What is a reasonable number in your opinion?
 
gacoon said:
They should provide a log/manifest for each flight and purpose. Post in members only section. Otherwise they should sell it.
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I agree completely. For us AOPA members, it's our jet. They should be accountable in using our jet for business purposes only.

It's hard to see the business use of flying the jet to KDIG Driggs Idaho, where it sits today, very near ski resorts, Grand Targhee and Jackson Hole. AOPA should absolutely explain the business use of each flight of this expensive jet. Or they should sell it.
 
On a serious note. I think it's fair for members of a donation based organization to question how their money is spent. If there is a growing number of people questioning the value that their donation brings them then that's on the organization to change that perception, not on the growing number of people expressing discontent
 
Tantalum said:
On a serious note. I think it's fair for members of a donation based organization to question how their money is spent.
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Of course. I would argue that doing so in the context of an annual member meeting or a townhall meeting is more constructive, since AOPA will be able to respond to the question. Out here without a response, asking the question feels more like throwing mud at AOPA.

- Martin
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Is it time for an "AOPA Has Too Much Money" thread already? Time certainly does fly.

I fly BasicMed. I file IFR for free. I get ATC for free. None of that would've been possible after 9/11 and into the next century without AOPA. Dues amount to about a day or two's ownership expenses on my Cessna single. I doubt anyone is doing anything better for GA with $79 a year (or whatever it is) than sending it to AOPA.
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Not really. Your taxes, and everyone else's, pay for ATC. You're just one of the few who use it (according to the latest figures on pilot population in the US)
 
Lindberg said:
Of course it is. Has anyone said it isn't?
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Suggesting bribing congressman as the only alternative to using their jet for dubious travel purposes is a fairly direct admonition "how dare you question their contribution to GA and use of their private jet!"

No, I didn't email Mark Baker to ask them what they used it for. That's a ridiculous question. But given that it's flying to the Florida Keys and ski destinations I think it's fair to question if that was the best usage of tax free member donations. If it had 8 trips in a day (as is suggested above) between obvious political purpose hubs that'd be a different case entirely.


Yes, I was a member, for a long time. I was proud of it. I left because I got tired of consistently being asked for money and I couldn't figure out what their actual advocacy was or what they did with the money. With 6% of pilots on basicmed and with 60% of people on basicmed over 80 this was hardly a big win for GA which is struggling to bring in new pilots, it actually doesn't do anything for third class holders or people who want to do more than be weekend warriors. I disagree with their war on FBOs (has anyone actually been screwed by an FBO? Don't like a private company's prices don't use them). I'd rather pay a few cents more for gas and get the plane hangered, a nice beautiful building with free food, concierge services, and know that the plane isn't rotting on a transient ramp

There are hundreds of reasons why aviation here is not like Europe.

ATC is paid for by everyone's taxes. If you go do a tracon tour and ask them about ATC, privatization, etc., they don't mention AOPA or their advocacy. They acknowledge Canada's system might be superior but that they also don't handle anywhere near the traffic the US system does, and that the US system works quite well. Big bad "user fees" would likely be levied on airplane tickets and not John Smith in his 172

Delta seems to be doing a fairly good job of advocating against privatization https://news.delta.com/sites/default/files/The Costs of Privatizing Air Traffic Control.pdf A $30 billion company has a much stronger voice than AOPA


I think AOPA has done a great job and taking a lot of well meaning honest people for a ride. It's only, what, $70 for a year, that's not a lot of money, but people would be well to heavily review how much advocacy work isn't being done. As another thread suggesting, having some other advocacy groups out their might unseat AOPA's monopoly, encourage them to work harder, and bring an even louder voice to congress to protect GA
 
A potential counterpoint to the beeyotching about AOPA's jet is that it is just might be in use for legitimate (AOPA centric) purposes.

"Senator Jones, don't you want us to take you and your spouse on a GA fact finding mission to Colorado, as part of your background work on General Aviation."
 
Tantalum said:
With 6% of pilots on basicmed and with 60% of people on basicmed over 80
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Dayum. I had no idea the take rate was that bad. I find the operating allowances of basic med to be pretty good for the recreational piston participant. Figured nothing to lose by getting on it early, and not having to get locked out EAB performance in later life with some BS 3rd class SI kabuki.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Dayum. I had no idea the take rate was that bad. I find the operating allowances of basic med to be pretty good for the recreational piston participant. Figured nothing to lose by getting on it early, and not having to get locked out EAB performance in later life with some BS 3rd class SI kabuki.
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I can look up the source if the group is interested, but this was as of September 2018.. a friend of mine (39) went basic med because it was easier however he's going to go back to third class

I have nothing against the basic med, I just wish it wasn't the only thing aopa was hanging their hat on in addition to the war on fbos
 
hindsight2020 said:
Dayum. I had no idea the take rate was that bad. I find the operating allowances of basic med to be pretty good for the recreational piston participant. Figured nothing to lose by getting on it early, and not having to get locked out EAB performance in later life with some BS 3rd class SI kabuki.
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It's tough to draw a conclusion without knowing Edgar the denominator is, but if that's 6% of all pilots, that seems pretty significant to me. Even if only six percent of third classes, you're removing a lot of hassle for those people, and some of them wouldn't otherwise be flying. I also wonder how eligible, but not currently flying, pilots will learn about it. I actually went into my last exam with my AME planning to go basic because of PITA things to document, but he was happy to give me a second 2nd so I did that. I'll be happy to go basic though when I need to.
 
Anecdotes aren’t data, but every active non-commercial pilot I know is on BasicMed.
 
During the transition period, there are also a lot of people who may still have an active 3rd Class and BasicMed, not sure how those would be counted.

The problem with BasicMed is the requirement for the initial 3rd class medical. FAA aeromedical still has its head up its ass on too many issues that should just be left between the patient and their doctor. As I've posted here before, I was subjected to several medically-unnecessary (as described by my urologist) and expensive tests to clear myself of kidney stone issues for my 3rd class.
 
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