AOPA Dues going up again

Eaa was huge in 3rd class reform. And with the recent push for non-certified avionics. AOPA did some, but little.

Look at the salaries for their execs - out of control. *uller got a huge going out package, *udinger and *aines make well over 200k, and the list goes on and on. Look at the number of Chiefs. Read the tax documents if you don't believe.

They try this guilt thing - we advocate for you and how can you not join and support an organizations that enables you to do what you love doing? No longer works for me. Their insurance is a joke. Horrible service and the rates I could easily beat by calling a broker.

It may work for you but not for me. Dropped years ago and don't miss. Go EAA!
 
Given my first look at the Part 23 re-write AOPA is crowing about that does NOTHING for the old GA fleet (it's original stated purpose) I stand by my decision of years ago; AOPA gives lip service to Part 91 ops and thats all...

Chris
 
GLMS_NC said:
Eaa was huge in 3rd class reform. And with the recent push for non-certified avionics. AOPA did some, but little.

Look at the salaries for their execs - out of control. *uller got a huge going out package, *udinger and *aines make well over 200k, and the list goes on and on. Look at the number of Chiefs. Read the tax documents if you don't believe.

They try this guilt thing - we advocate for you and how can you not join and support an organizations that enables you to do what you love doing? No longer works for me. Their insurance is a joke. Horrible service and the rates I could easily beat by calling a broker.

It may work for you but not for me. Dropped years ago and don't miss. Go EAA!
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I haven't looked at the AOPA salaries, but if you think $200K is big money in the DC 'burbs, I can tell you it is not. You won't miss any meals, for sure, but entry level single family homes in low-end areas are $400K+. Good(ish) schools, solid middle-middle class areas, $700K and up. Close in, slightly tonier neighborhoods, $1M - $2M. These are "regular" homes, ramblers, Cape Cods, etc., not McMansions. Maryland is very much a tax-spend state - "If you can dream it, we can tax it". Northern VA is slightly better.

I don't know if AOPA management is "good" or "bad", but those bucks are certainly in line for a senior manager in this area. I can tell you an accomplished and connected lobbyist does a heck of a lot better than $200K.
 
Sundancer said:
I haven't looked at the AOPA salaries, but if you think $200K is big money in the DC 'burbs, I can tell you it is not. You won't miss any meals, for sure, but entry level single family homes in low-end areas are $400K+. Good(ish) schools, solid middle-middle class areas, $700K and up. Close in, slightly tonier neighborhoods, $1M - $2M. These are "regular" homes, ramblers, Cape Cods, etc., not McMansions. Maryland is very much a tax-spend state - "If you can dream it, we can tax it". Northern VA is slightly better.

I don't know if AOPA management is "good" or "bad", but those bucks are certainly in line for a senior manager in this area. I can tell you an accomplished and connected lobbyist does a heck of a lot better than $200K.
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Go look at the salaries and bonuses. I get D.C. Is pricey. Be curious if you feel the same way after seeing what folks get paid. It's your dues money.
 
I'm good with it. . .I get that they don't align with your priorities, and that's legit, and your call. I'm just not seeing the compensation being out of line for that kind of work in the DC area. The membership seems reasonably priced for me, I use their services from time to time, and to my mind they appear engaged and in there pitching - GA needs someone to rep. . .
 
Received another "last chance" renewal offer yesterday. 4th or 5th one. This time they've upped their "free gift" to a penlight flashlight, think even w/ 2 batteries included. Filed it.
 
We'll make it easy for everyone.

2014 tax return is here => https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/...opa-governance-page/2014aopaform990.pdf?la=en

Salaries are on page 43 and other comp on the following pages. Read the entire return about their investments, membership, advertising revenue, use of the company planes, etc. Other year tax returns are also available. Boyer and Fuller....read for yourself how they were taken care of.

Remember there are other organizations in play besides just AOPA. You will see those listed in the tax return but those numbers are not in this return. Have to read those returns to see what is gong on there.

I am NOT saying the organization is bad. This is an individual decision. There are more than one group that advocates for GA where we can send our money.

Happy reading...
 
GLMS_NC said:
There are more than one group that advocates for GA where we can send our money.
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Does the other group(s) have the same clout in DC/with the FAA as AOPA? Are they able to have a seat at the table when the FAA tries to extend class B's or C's in areas that would be detrimental to VFR GA aircraft? Do they have similar PAC's that allow them to have good relationships with law makers? I'm not asking loaded questions with any motives just trying to get more informed.
 
I encourage you to look at what EAA and NBAA do.
 
NBAA, I should have included with AOPA as I know they have a seat at the table. From my positions, usually pretty low on the totem pole or completely outside looking in, I haven't really seen EAA there much. I know they are huge proponents of GA and I don't question that at all. I will research them more and see what I can dig up on them as far as the other stuff I mentioned. Thanks.
 
EAA may not get to go to the cocktail parties but they've done more for GA the past few years than AOPA by a good margin. They were major players in 3rd class reform and they are the drive behind the new certification of experiential equipment (and it is succeeding), which may be the most helpful thing for GA in decades.
 
Bonchie said:
EAA may not get to go to the cocktail parties but they've done more for GA the past few years than AOPA by a good margin. They were major players in 3rd class reform and they are the drive behind the new certification of experiential equipment (and it is succeeding), which may be the most helpful thing for GA in decades.
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I understand everything you mentioned. Unfortunately, given how DC works, the organizations that go to bat for you need to be really good at the "cocktail party" part of it. It's how stuff gets accomplished in DC. Maybe that will change and of course I hope it does.
 
The point is, their supposed influence hasn't accomplished much lately while groups you say are outsiders are getting things done. So maybe they should examine that.
 
Roger that. And sorry if I came off as suggesting EAA was outsiders. I was honestly just asking if they were more "inside" than what I've seen, which I tried to stress is limited to begin with. Was just trying to learn.
 
I womder how much AOPA is going to do to fight the privatizing of atc and if they will even get off their butt to help with the Santa Monica fiasco?
 
Reference privatizing ATC, AOPA was very vocal about opposing the Shuster proposal and that was well documented on their site and in the media coverage. Unfortunately I didn't hear much about EAA at the time. Hopefully their voice will be heard and reported more in the future.
 
Radar Contact said:
Reference privatizing ATC, AOPA was very vocal about opposing the Shuster proposal and that was well documented on their site and in the media coverage. Unfortunately I didn't hear much about EAA at the time. Hopefully their voice will be heard and reported more in the future.
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To that point, I was reading the latest EAA mag this morning on the crapper, and they have a list of what the organizations accomplishments were this year, broken down by month. It was an impressive list, and almost all of it directly related to my type of flying. I've never seen anything from AOPA. AOPA might be doing some good for me representing my interests, but I've never seen much about what they've accomplished with all that cash. The EAA was detailed, and covered many pages of what they're doing for us.

That, and the EAA magazine is actually interesting. AOPA was mostly ads for expensive stuff I wouldn't buy even if I could afford it.
 
Yeah well at least the AOPA Pilot magazine is pretty good. Some benefits like discounts on FAA exams help as well but with higher costs and diminish returns will see how long I keep mine.
 
Bonchie said:
The point is, their influence hasn't accomplished much lately while groups you say are outsiders are getting things done. So maybe they should examine that.
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I can point to items where AOPA wasn't been able to take care of GA's needs. ADS-B comes to mind. The thing is, AOPa should have been screaming at the top of its lungs about ADSB. I do not remember them doing that. 3rd class medical reform has turned into something less than it should have been. The re-write of certification rules too. So it is easy to point out their failures.

On the other hand, it is hard to point out their successes because it is impossible to know where we'd be without AOPA's influence. Would the aviation caucus in the Senate or House have taken care of business anyway? I dunno...

And I suspect most people are in the same boat. We don't know how effective AOPA is. Add to that some of the odd things they do (for example, fighting low utilization tower closures) makes it easy to give up on them. They need some front and center legitimate wins that translate to things which help GA (Like EAA's new STC's).
 
Bonchie said:
The point is, their supposed influence hasn't accomplished much lately while groups you say are outsiders are getting things done. So maybe they should examine that.
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How do we know which group is getting results and which group isn't? Maybe they are working together to get results (or no results).
 
There are three related discussions going on here: (1) mismanagement/the cash hoard (2) payroll and (3) effectiveness.

I think the umbrella issue is this: Many of us, members or not, do not trust AOPA to be telling us the truth or to be doing the right thing. I think the reason is this:

Members are systematically excluded from participating in the governance and operations of AOPA. The "membership" association is run by insiders who are responsible to a board that is selected in secret and operates in secret.

Every year there is a two-page spread in the NRA Rifleman explaining how to nominate people to run for the board and encouraging members to participate. From time to time, it even happens that members who are unhappy about something will propose a slate of nominees designed to change what they don't like. The corporation's annual meeting is held in conjunction with the annual convention and is relatively well attended. In most, maybe all, issues of the Rifleman there is a small blurb introducing one of the board members and talking about his experience an interests.

Has anyone received an email notice of an upcoming AOPA board opening and been encouraged to apply or to participate in the selection? Ever gotten an email notice of job openings at AOPA HQ with information on job requirements and how to apply? Has anyone ever attended an annual AOPA corporation meeting? Has anyone ever seen a copy of board minutes that might indicate how resources are being deployed? How many members can name a single board member? How many have ever actually had a meaningful conversation with a board member? I could go on and on.

There is a lovely word, "cabal," that Wikipedia defines as follows: "A cabal is a group of people united in some close design together, usually to promote their private views or interests in an ideology, state, or other community, often by intrigue, usually unbeknown to persons outside their group. The use of this term usually carries strong connotations of shadowy corners, back rooms and insidious influence."
 
airdale said:
Has anyone received an email notice of an upcoming AOPA board opening and been encouraged to apply or to participate in the selection? Ever gotten an email notice of job openings at AOPA HQ with information on job requirements and how to apply? Has anyone ever attended an annual AOPA corporation meeting? Has anyone ever seen a copy of board minutes that might indicate how resources are being deployed? How many members can name a single board member? How many have ever actually had a meaningful conversation with a board member? I could go on and on.
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Every week, both AOPA and EAA send out a weekly email. The one from AOPA, if you read it all, has had a list of several job openings, most in Frederick, MD (AOPA HQ), but some in other places, that are all hyperlinked to their Job Openings web page. Sorry if you haven't seen them, I've been checking them occasionally (when they sound interesting) for at least the last 4-5 years.

Their annual meeting is always in Frederick, at some regular time not associated with any other event or meeting. The notice is usually a color-highlighted paragraph or two somewhere in the magazine. I fully agree that the notice could be more clear, and that having the meeting in association with a larger event would be helpful for rank-and-file members who want to attend. But then again, this is the typical modes operandi for most U.S. businesses. If you own any stock, you should get these in mail or email from the company or your broker. Should we all take Coke and Boeing over the coals for not having their annual board meetings announced somewhere outside if their normal corporate publications and as required by the Securities and Excahnge commission? That seems to be one of your larger beefs with AOPA.

As for "not trusting AOPA to tell us the truth," this is the first charge of that kind I've heard. What do you think they are / have been lying about???
 
Hank S said:
Every week, both AOPA and EAA send out a weekly email. The one from AOPA, if you read it all, has had a list of several job openings, ...
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Good to hear. I dropped out about 5 years ago so I have not been seeing that. Do they advertise board openings and solicit member nominations and participation? Is there solicitation and a mechanism for receiving member input on issues?

Hank S said:
heir annual meeting is always in Frederick, at some regular time not associated with any other event or meeting. The notice is usually a color-highlighted paragraph or two somewhere in the magazine. I fully agree that the notice could be more clear, and that having the meeting in association with a larger event would be helpful for rank-and-file members who want to attend. But then again, this is the typical modes operandi for most U.S. businesses. If you own any stock, you should get these in mail or email from the company or your broker. Should we all take Coke and Boeing over the coals for not having their annual board meetings announced somewhere outside if their normal corporate publications and as required by the Securities and Excahnge commission? That seems to be one of your larger beefs with AOPA.
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AOPA is a membership organization, much different than a Coke or a Boeing. Re location, for many years they held the annual meeting at some obscure airport in PA, apparently where AOPA was founded. I got an attendees list and minutes one time. There were maybe twenty people present, all but a couple easily identified as insiders. There was no substantive business conducted, simply a resolution to approve all actions of AOPA management for the previous year. But actually, the issue is more fundamental than excluding members from the annual meeting. The proxy system they have implemented is brilliant. Members sign proxies without really understanding what they are doing (IMO) and the insiders walk into the meeting with enough proxies to completely control everything. And probably 99% of the members don't care. So we get what we deserve.

Hank S said:
As for "not trusting AOPA to tell us the truth," this is the first charge of that kind I've heard. What do you think they are / have been lying about???
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That's my attempt to summarize the points people are making about not knowing whether AOPA is effective and not believing they are helping on important issues. It feels like distrust to me. Maybe you would summarize differently.

And, actually, I think they probably do some good. It was good to see them recognized by The Hill. I think they could do more good if they weren't so secretive and if members' inputs and participation were actively sought. But the only way to get their attention is by withholding dues. Unfortunately, members will probably never withhold enough dues to have that effect. After all, they have the hoard which they can all easily live on until retirement.
 
Focus on facts and leave emotions out of this.

Quite simple really. If they speak for you and you feel you get value - pay the dues. If not, don't join. We can debate this topic forever.

People keep paying dues so why should aopa change? What is the incentive? Tax returns/numbers are public so members must be ok with them.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I womder how much AOPA is going to do to fight the privatizing of atc and if they will even get off their butt to help with the Santa Monica fiasco?
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and when third class medical was the bargaining chip. let's all enjoy paying at the tower!
 
IMG_2938.JPG What organization is referenced here?
 

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The one that is actively working to make GA better?
 
I was a loyal member for 12 + years since I got my PPL and I sucked up one fee increase but this is out of control. I let it go this year. We all know 60 bucks a year is drop in the bucket but OTOH it sees to be like they are making tons of money from advertising and insurance etc. I suspect they are paying obscene amount in salaries and there is something fishy going on at the HQ. The AOPA mag has nothing but advertisements and you are constantly bombarded with offers to buy insurance. What do they do with all the money ? BTW I never bought AOPA insurance cause quote was always way higher than my current broker. Their legal plan is joke . I tried to use it and it did not work. They don't pay anything instead attorney will tell you that the discount was already included when he/she quoted the fees
 
Wow, I remember in July 2014 right when dues were increasing for regular membership from $49 to $59. At the time, lifetime membership came down from $999 to $750. I was 30 in 2014, so I took the life plunge at $750.

Today, regular membership is $69 and lifetime is $1749. Already been three years now for me, and at this rate, my lifetime membership will pay itself off in less than 8 years LOL!

Glad I got the $750 deal for life, IMO, it was a steal.
 
I've been a member since 1995 and just let it expire this year. They can pay their people whatever they want - to me it comes down to what I feel I'm getting for what I'm paying, and this latest increase crossed a threshold where it no longer works for me.
 
Yup me too. Still get the free shet offers every couple of weeks trying to get me to "reup". That Kaitlyn Jenner feature in both Pilot and Pilot Training was the nail for me.
 
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GLMS_NC said:
Go look at the salaries and bonuses. I get D.C. Is pricey. Be curious if you feel the same way after seeing what folks get paid. It's your dues money.
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Did I read that correctly? $782k in compensation, and another $108k for renting his own airplane?
 
Hold on guys, how is the C. Jenner article the breaking point? Like or hate any of the Kardashian clan, they are "celebrities" and if one of them became a pilot and owns their own airplane, I don't see what's wrong with an article on it. I do recall reading the AOPA article and the Flying magazine. Nothing stood out as over the top or offensive to me.
 
Flyer1015 said:
Hold on guys, how is the C. Jenner article the breaking point? Like or hate any of the Kardashian clan, they are "celebrities" and if one of them became a pilot and owns their own airplane, I don't see what's wrong with an article on it. I do recall reading the AOPA article and the Flying magazine. Nothing stood out as over the top or offensive to me.
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It was to me, and last I checked I'm n charge of my pocketbook. I wrote them about featuring he/she twice via both magazines and my displeasure (not that they GAS). I'm fine with you feeling differently.
 
mscard88 said:
I was ok with AOPA from '74 until they featured that girl that used to be a guy in their Pilot mag, and then I get my copy of Flight Training mag and they put whatever in there too. That was it for me, bye bye. YMMV so good for you if it does.
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Exactly why I dropped them, also belonged to AOPA since 1974,now just EAA.
 
strangebird said:
Exactly why I dropped them, also belonged to AOPA since 1974.
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Me too, signed up in '74 or '75. And you got the free sticker, free hat, free Airport Directory, and free plotter EVERY time you renewed for quite a few years, then they offered a choice of one, and now nutin". I mainly enjoyed the magazine and their training section on their web site. Oh well!
 
continues to show the utter lack of vision for AOPA. The founders of the organization would be rolling over in their grave if they saw what AOPA is today.
 
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