AOPA Dues going up again

paflyer said:
Talent costs money. And DC area COL is huge. Anyone in a for-profit of the same level would be making just as much, if not more.
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AOPA is not in DC. It is in Frederick, MD. The COL there is average.
 
If I thought for an instant that the AOPA was even remotely interested in the little guy GA pilot, I'd re-up in a New York minute.
But they don't, so I won't.

Example: Medical reform had nothing to do with old guys like me (who can still pass a physical), and everything to do with keeping aging pilots flying even older airplanes so the Big 4 could keep on selling parts.
 
In today's aopa live Warren Morningstar and Melissa Rudinger said GAMA was the leader in the part 23 rewrite effort. Aopa was just a member on the committee.

What does that say? AOPA should be leading not just sitting on a committee. And now with the focus on drone pilots? Look at the SMA airport closure? Shows they are in one business - preserve the future of the organization and raise money. Not taking leadership on key issues is disappointing...
 
paflyer said:
Yes, and patently absurd posts are deserving.

Do you think we'd be flying with the freedom we have post 9/11 without AOPA?
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Yes.

Sundancer said:
I haven't looked at the AOPA salaries, but if you think $200K is big money in the DC 'burbs, I can tell you it is not. You won't miss any meals, for sure, but entry level single family homes in low-end areas are $400K+. Good(ish) schools, solid middle-middle class areas, $700K and up. Close in, slightly tonier neighborhoods, $1M - $2M. These are "regular" homes, ramblers, Cape Cods, etc., not McMansions. Maryland is very much a tax-spend state - "If you can dream it, we can tax it". Northern VA is slightly better.

I don't know if AOPA management is "good" or "bad", but those bucks are certainly in line for a senior manager in this area. I can tell you an accomplished and connected lobbyist does a heck of a lot better than $200K.
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Someone else pointed out that Frederick is cheaper, and I don't know... but I can tell you this... if it's too expensive to operate there, then move the damned HQ. I'm a member of all sorts of organizations that effectively lobby D.C. Just fine who's HQ isn't located anywhere near D.C.

Everskyward said:
How do we know which group is getting results and which group isn't? Maybe they are working together to get results (or no results).
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They'd better be telling us, or they'll continue to lose members. It's the Information Age, so they say.

The last straw for me was the doofus who started the wine club. Haven't been a member now for a long time. EAA gets my "advocacy" money. (And a crap ton of money for having a friend stake out a big patch of grass for longer than the Oshkosh event runs. :) )
 
dmspilot said:
AOPA is not in DC. It is in Frederick, MD. The COL there is average.
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I live in the DC metro area (in Maryland), and Frederick is/is a 'burb of DC, a bedroom community. The main drag twixt Fred-neck and the DC-NoVa-MD centers of gov't and commerce is I-270. It's the highway-to-hell inbound in the mornings, and the same outbound in the afternoons. COL is most definitley not average there, except on the northern and western peripheries.

Lobbying orgs have tended to move the bulk of their staffs out of DC in the last couple of decades, leaving just the lobbyist and his/her direct support staff in town, to reduce costs. I don't know, but it may be AOPA was in Fred-neck back in the day, before real esate and taxes headed north?

Effective lobbyists are very well paid in DC. That's the cost of doing business, where votes are expensive; when you hear "conflict of interest", think PAC donations from XYZ corp, spent to support Senator/Congressman Doe, whose committee is working legislation directly affecting XYZ corp. Doesn't meet the legal defintion of a bribe, but . . .

Anyway, some pretty strong anti-AOPA feeling here, and sounds like it's from the heart - no worries, all good. I just don't see the cons out weighing the pros myself. . .
 
Sundancer said:
I live in the DC metro area (in Maryland), and Frederick is/is a 'burb of DC, a bedroom community. The main drag twixt Fred-neck and the DC-NoVa-MD centers of gov't and commerce is I-270. It's the highway-to-hell inbound in the mornings, and the same outbound in the afternoons. COL is most definitley not average there, except on the northern and western peripheries.
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A suburb? Maybe, but just barely. I have shopped real estate in Frederick and have friends that live there. COL is in line with the rest of the eastern seaboard. Housing is 1/3rd the cost or less compared to actual DC suburbs like Alexandria or Bethesda. It is not DC. If you worked at AOPA you could conceivably live somewhere even cheaper like Hagerstown.
 
The median American HOUSEHOLD makes $51,000 a year.

The median D.C. household makes $93,000.

Think there's some folks getting close to grabbing the pitchforks and paying the oligarchs a little visit coming relatively soon, as has happened all throughout human history?

D.C. doesn't represent anyone but D.C. at this point, and people know it but don't like to admit what it's going to take to reverse it eventually.
 
Dig deeper? The outer fringes of Frederick, opposite the DC side, are cheaper, but that's eroding. Alexandria and Bethesda are snug up against DC; old, established, close in, and expensive communitie - pretty high cost locations for the immediate area. More comparable with Fred-neck would be Rockville in MD, or Herndon in VA. And MD fees/taxes/surcharges etc. are breathtaking. I guess staffers could live in Hagerstown - anyone else with business downtown could not. But again, the salaries mentioned just don't light up as out of line with the DC area. . .
 
denverpilot said:
The median American HOUSEHOLD makes $51,000 a year.

The median D.C. household makes $93,000.

Think there's some folks getting close to grabbing the pitchforks and paying the oligarchs a little visit coming relatively soon, as has happened all throughout human history?

D.C. doesn't represent anyone but D.C. at this point, and people know it but don't like to admit what it's going to take to reverse it eventually.
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Pretty much spot on, and I live and work here. . .If I had a kid in public school here, and if our household income was only $93K, I'd have to live in an apartment or condo, to afford housing in a decent school district. For a modestly good quality of life, I'd guess-estimate a family of three needs about $150K here.
 
Sundancer said:
Dig deeper? The outer fringes of Frederick
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Don't know what you mean by "outer fringes". It's not that big of a town. I am talking right in the middle of town. Maybe your perception is skewed if you are only looking at McMansions on the DC side. AOPA headquarters is at the FDK airport.

Sundancer said:
Fred-neck
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Why do you keep saying that? I don't know what Fredneck is. I am talking about Frederick.
 
I guess I'd refer you to one of the real estate sites; Fred-neck has an old town center, and the City goes way back; modern homes aren't routinely available city-center, and if commuting to DC routinely, as I presume many of the higher salaried AOPA staff do, then the DC side is the side to be on. . .by derogatory slur, do you mean "Fred-neck", by chance? It's a local nick-name in semi-common usage - picked it up from a co-worker, and Frederick resident, in the 80's. Bit of a stretch to call it a slur, in my mind, but set the PC bar as suits you. As will I. . .
 
Again, I am familiar with the area. I have looked at housing in Frederick IN PERSON because I considered moving there, and I have close friends living there. The COL is not "huge" as somebody else said. It is normal. Maybe you consider 20 miles from Frederick to be Frederick, but I don't.
 
Sundancer said:
Anyway, some pretty strong anti-AOPA feeling here, and sounds like it's from the heart - no worries, all good.
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If you read other aviation forums you will see similar comments. AOPA is doing it to themselves and people are calling them out.
 
Sure thing, no issue with personal opinions. Anybody in an advocacy business will be putting some people off; it's almost inevitable. I haven't looked too hard, but POA rants aren't real specific - I remember salaries and cash reserves coming up lately, and that annoying some people. I just don't care about thier cash on hand, and I do know something about living and lobbying in DC, so the salaries aren't shockers, either.

I like the magazine well enough, gotten some good reading/info there; I like the web site and some of the training stuff. Dues aren't that high, to my mind, and the lobbying is a necessary evil. I guess I see value in what they do, at least enough to renew.
 
After 20+ years my AOPA membership dies 5/31 with no regret.
 
Lotsa cheap guys here who want to enjoy the benefits of advocacy but have others pay for it. Where's your "fair share"?
 
Scrabo said:
After 20+ years my AOPA membership dies 5/31 with no regret.
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Same as I. Though in my case I started flying experimental last year and AOPA seems a lot less relevant to me.

On top of that I am winding down to retirement and just couldn't justify the $69 to my significant other anymore.

I appreciate their advocacy and think they do a good job. I just can't afford to support them anymore and the member benefits no longer justify the expense.

If it was still in the $40 range I might remain a member, or if I were rich ☺.
 
paflyer said:
Lotsa cheap guys here who want to enjoy the benefits of advocacy but have others pay for it. Where's your "fair share"?
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Used to feel exactly the same, and ragged on my friends for freeloading. But in recent years, seeing their focus, I dropped them and threw away my decade pins.....
 
paflyer said:
Lotsa cheap guys here who want to enjoy the benefits of advocacy but have others pay for it. Where's your "fair share"?
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You mean their "advocacy" of begging FAA for ADS-B in 2005 costing all aircraft owners a small fortune and the country a large one?
Or maybe hiring that "Washington Insider" Craig, who did absolutely nothing as far as anyone can tell, and then having to pay his golden parachute?
Or maybe all the great maintenance tips and competitive pricing information they've offered "Owners" in the whole "aOpa" thing over the years?

Sorry... if I ever re-join it'll be for something specific... and right now, I'm not seeing anything they do or offer that I need. I truly wish I did, but I don't... and haven't for a while.

I've said it before, I'd happily support a membership that every dollar went ONLY to the AOPA ASF. They do good work. The rest of the place? Not seeing it. Not saying I couldn't again someday, but pretty sure the best of the organization's "advocate" work ended when Phil Boyer retired.
 
MichiPilot said:
Just received a renewal notice to lock in a $49 annual rate before the dues go up to $69 in 2017. That's what 3 or 4 hikes in the last 5 years?
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I have both + NAFI but if you can afford to fly, what's the fuss over $69 / year.
 
denverpilot said:
You mean their "advocacy" of begging FAA for ADS-B in 2005 costing all aircraft owners a small fortune and the country a large one?
Or maybe hiring that "Washington Insider" Craig, who did absolutely nothing as far as anyone can tell, and then having to pay his golden parachute?
Or maybe all the great maintenance tips and competitive pricing information they've offered "Owners" in the whole "aOpa" thing over the years?

Sorry... if I ever re-join it'll be for something specific... and right now, I'm not seeing anything they do or offer that I need. I truly wish I did, but I don't... and haven't for a while.

I've said it before, I'd happily support a membership that every dollar went ONLY to the AOPA ASF. They do good work. The rest of the place? Not seeing it. Not saying I couldn't again someday, but pretty sure the best of the organization's "advocate" work ended when Phil Boyer retired.
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Believe me, the ADSurveilence-Bullsnot is a cluster.

However, no one can convince me we'd be better off without AOPA being in the ring. Lots of people would be very happy to see every GA airport in the country turned into another shopping center or HOA community.
 
I use their insurance brokerage for my aircraft, and also renew my CFI via their online service. As an established retail customer of two distinct products I think my membership should be complimentary. That's the jist of why I'm not a member. In my case at least, it's a much more Occam's Razor angle than the oligarchic-advocacy/rent-seeking/corruption aspect being debated on here (much of which I happen to agree with btw).
 
paflyer said:
However, no one can convince me we'd be better off without AOPA being in the ring. Lots of people would be very happy to see every GA airport in the country turned into another shopping center or HOA community.
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They're losing at every airport they've named as being one of their "focus" airports over the last decade. Or they're suddenly unwilling to take any credit for ones they're winning in secret? LOL...
 
Clip4 said:
I mean how much of the $69 pays for the AOPA jet?
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I'm happy AOPA has an aircraft fleet that includes a jet. Not having (and using) GA, including jets, would be hypocritical for them.

That said, my displeasure with them is the bizarre "war chest" they have created plus the fact that they didn't figuratively lay across the railroad tracks regarding ADS-B. Add all of that up and I concluded that my dues were going into the rainy day fund to keep the executives paid for a decade after the organization loses its last member. I don't feel like paying for that.
 
kyleb said:
I'm happy AOPA has an aircraft fleet that includes a jet. Not having (and using) GA, including jets, would be hypocritical for them.

That said, my displeasure with them is the bizarre "war chest" they have created plus the fact that they didn't figuratively lay across the railroad tracks regarding ADS-B. Add all of that up and I concluded that my dues were going into the rainy day fund to keep the executives paid for a decade after the organization loses its last member. I don't feel like paying for that.
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Warren Buffet calls his jet the "Indefensible",
 
Clip4 said:
Warren Buffet calls his jet the "Indefensible",
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Buffet is an interesting guy. For him, a G550 would be a minor rounding error. But I think he currently flies on Netjets, which is part of the Berkshire portfolio.
 
paflyer said:
Lotsa cheap guys here who want to enjoy the benefits of advocacy but have others pay for it. Where's your "fair share"?
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EAA is now getting my money, AOPA over the last 7 or so years seem to have lost the focus on why they exist, the mag just seems to a) rerun old story's , b) feature aircraft that I could never afford to own or fly, c) more ad space than articles

To quote someone ... "SAD"

Will miss their forums even if the activity there was slowing down.
 
Scrabo said:
EAA is now getting my money, AOPA over the last 7 or so years seem to have lost the focus on why they exist, the mag just seems to a) rerun old story's , b) feature aircraft that I could never afford to own or fly, c) more ad space than articles

To quote someone ... "SAD"

Will miss their forums even if the activity there was slowing down.
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I'm a member of both orgs. Magazines in general are good. EAAs is a cut above. We need both of them.
 
airdale said:
I dropped my membership in disgust several years ago. I ran into Baker at a meeting one time and tried to ask him about the cash hoard. He just turned on his heel and walked away. Apparently he had no way to defend it.
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I ran into Baker along with some of his clingons at KGIF last year during Sun N Fun, they had spent a couple of days at the show and called in at KGIF in a Caravan on floats to gas up...and in the words of one of his entourage..."That's the boring sh*t done, now lets get down to the Bahama's and party" ....
 
kyleb said:
...my dues were going into the rainy day fund to keep the executives paid for a decade after the organization loses its last member. I don't feel like paying for that.
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Well said.

Baker's last three jobs were as CEO of failing businesses. I'm sure he feels very good about this.
 
Clip4 said:
I mean how much of the $69 pays for the AOPA jet?
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I can't understand this attitude. Whats the deal, here? We as pilots and plane owners only respect planes that are cheaper than ours? This is the kind of anti-GA attitude that we call out in others, and here we turn it on our own? Someone needs to explain this to me.
 
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George Mohr said:
... Someone needs to explain this to me.
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The public perception of light jets is that they are a hideously expensive means for rich people to avoid rubbing elbows with commoners on commercial flights. Every flight of N4GA confirms this.

Baker is not Mary Barra and he is not Warren Buffet. Real executives' time is incredibly valuable and expensive transportation can be justified. Baker (like prior incumbents) is the head of a podunk lobbying organization and, relatively speaking, his time is almost valueless. Light jet travel for guys like him and his staff is simply joyriding.

Here's one: Have AOPA dues paid to get Baker a type rating in the jet? I don't know but would not be surprised. That would really be joyriding.
 
For an association called "Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association" to own and operate a small fleet of GA airplanes seems totally appropriate to me. Particularly if it helps them do their job as an advocate/educator/etc. You can make the argument that it doesn't, but then you are basically saying GA has no business value.
 
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