Anyone carry sectionals anymore?

nddons said:
I always have one in my flight bag as a backup, though it may not be current.
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A current chart on a second device (e.g. phone or tablet) is a better backup than an obsolete chart on paper.

I did my BFR yesterday and find laying out a sectional to be very satisfying when planning a flight. The screens in my iThings seem too damned small sometimes.
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If I'm planning at home or at the FBO, I can get a full-screen display of my charts using Skyvector. Some big advantages over paper: I can quickly switch among different charts for the same location, and quickly zoom in and out; and I can see an entire chart at once, instead of one side at a time on paper.
 
txflyer said:
Was cleaning out the plane and the hangar today and pulled out a binder from behind the co-pilot's seat in the elastic pocket with four or five year old sectionals in it. I realized I have not looked at any of them in those years.

I said to myself "screw it, what am I carrying this weight around for?"

So I tossed 'em. :rolleyes2:
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yup...still carry them and have them available for flight when needed. experimenting with ForeFlight and other EFBs but was taught to keep the paper available and think that's a good idea.
 
I fly with current paper charts. I have tried Foreflight, but I find it hard to read when the sun is shining.
 
650-750-G600 and an iPad, if it call quits at the same time in instrument conditions, I will just assume it's my time to go. :dunno:
I do miss the paper charts for blocking the sun on the side windows. ;)
SixPapaCharlie said:
Maybe but stastically:


  • Avidyne
  • 2 430s
  • Foreflight
  • avare on the phone


If all those fail, Karma is after me.
That said...
If I am renting a 172 without all that stuff, I will bring the paper as a backup.
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Absolutely. Nothing in paper, and 100% electronic.
 
Yes, because electronics fail. Never had a paper chart go blank in the middle of a flight.
 
430, IPad, IPad, IPhone. If the approach is going to be in IMC, I will print out plates.

I recall more than once dicovering the night before a long X-C that the airport is just off the edge of all the sectionals that I had just received from Sporty's.

It wasn't so bad when you could walk into any FBO and get a current sectional (except for the popular ones). I could go back to them if I had to, but I would not be happy.

SixPapaCharlie said:
Maybe but stastically:

  • Avidyne
  • 2 430s
  • Foreflight
  • avare on the phone


If all those fail, Karma is after me.
That said...
If I am renting a 172 without all that stuff, I will bring the paper as a backup.
Click to expand...
 
txflyer said:
Was cleaning out the plane and the hangar today and pulled out a binder from behind the co-pilot's seat in the elastic pocket with four or five year old sectionals in it. I realized I have not looked at any of them in those years.

I said to myself "screw it, what am I carrying this weight around for?"

So I tossed 'em. :rolleyes2:
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Always. TAC and sectional.
 
I have Foreflight on my iPad and iPhone, and an EFIS in my panel, but yes, I am old fashion and carry them. When planning, there is still something to be said about laying them out on the dining room table...
 
Whenever we get our hands on a real sectional chart, we laminate it into one of our hotels tabletops.
 
I always have a current paper sectional with me.

I know some of you younger whipper snappers think some of us more seasoned aviators are dinosaurs, but let me ask a question. If all of your electronic backups (maybe you have 4 or 5 with you) depend on a good GPS signal, do you really have a backup?
 
I've accumulated sectionals for most of the US and Alaska. They're works of art and I hate to see their demise. Even though I seldom use them.
 
somorris said:
I always have a current paper sectional with me.

I know some of you younger whipper snappers think some of us more seasoned aviators are dinosaurs, but let me ask a question. If all of your electronic backups (maybe you have 4 or 5 with you) depend on a good GPS signal, do you really have a backup?
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The GPS signal will allow a representation of my current position on the electronic sectional. But without a signal, I still have the sectional available on all of my devices, just not my current position (which is easily determined by looking outside and/or using the onboard, non-GPS nav equipment).
 
Two words for the OMG! my electronics quit now I'm lost without a chart crowd.

Water towers. :wink2:
 
somorris said:
I always have a current paper sectional with me.

I know some of you younger whipper snappers think some of us more seasoned aviators are dinosaurs, but let me ask a question. If all of your electronic backups (maybe you have 4 or 5 with you) depend on a good GPS signal, do you really have a backup?
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Umm... Yes. I really have a backup.
My electronics do not depend on a GPS signal any more than your sectional does.
 
somorris said:
I always have a current paper sectional with me.

I know some of you younger whipper snappers think some of us more seasoned aviators are dinosaurs, but let me ask a question. If all of your electronic backups (maybe you have 4 or 5 with you) depend on a good GPS signal, do you really have a backup?
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Plus they are always doing "GPS testing" which can reduce your tablet to nothing more that a yoke accessory.
 
I like my paper back ups, cheaper than a ipad, no glare, opens bigger than any tablet screen, folds thinner than any iphone, can be left on for decades, bends without breaking, costs less than a medium cap, and if it gets lost, meh oh well.


Scrabo said:
Plus they are always doing "GPS testing" which can reduce your tablet to nothing more that a yoke accessory.
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Don't even get me started with the folks that mount giant tablets to their yokes or block off the real world view from windows with them :mad2:


Just put the thing on your lap :yes:
 
When I made the post about GPS reliability, I was just kind of thinking about the book that was titled (I think) Everything I Ever Needed to Know I learned in Kindergarten. Remember the admonition "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

I love GPS and not having to calculate ETE, ground speed, and all the other stuff. But, I have had my GPS lose signal also. Stuff sometimes happens. I like to be as prepared as I can.
 
somorris said:
When I made the post about GPS reliability, I was just kind of thinking about the book that was titled (I think) Everything I Ever Needed to Know I learned in Kindergarten. Remember the admonition "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."

I love GPS and not having to calculate ETE, ground speed, and all the other stuff. But, I have had my GPS lose signal also. Stuff sometimes happens. I like to be as prepared as I can.
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The electronic chart doesn't disappear if the GPS goes TU.
 
Yep, still do. Been trying out a few different iPad apps to see if going electronic works better. First off, the iPad has to be put somewhere so I can see it. Ended up velcro'ing it to my kneeboard, that works, sort of. Second, if it's bumpy, errors on the touchscreen are easy to do. Third, it actually seems harder to have to wade through different screens to find the info I want.

So far, I'll stick with the charts and eyes out the window.

Gary
 
I think this thread can be summed up as follows:

"Different strokes for different folks."​
 
I do have a very old SFO sectional in my flight bag. Don't know why. I haven't looked at it in years. I have 430W, 696 (powered by battery and ship power), iPad (powered by battery and ship power) and iPhone.


  • If my plane's power buss goes dead, I still have moving maps and sectionals.
  • If my iPad over heats and shuts down, I still have moving maps and sectionals.
  • If the Iranians hack the GPS and shut it down, I still have sectionals, VORs and the windows.
  • If the Chinese attack with a huge EMP burst and black out all my electronics at once and I find myself in very unfamiliar territory, then I will bust out the old paper sectional so I can find my way to nice place to ride out the inevitable nuclear exchange coming. Being out of date will be OK. Mountains and airports don't move much.
Sectionals are good for planning at home with though.
 
I carry sectionals and TAC with me although they might be a cycle outdated. Had electronics fail me in the past so while I carry tablets and portable GPS it's my backup to my electronic backup.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Maybe but stastically:

  • Avidyne
  • 2 430s
  • Foreflight
  • avare on the phone


If all those fail, Karma is after me.
Click to expand...
Don't concern yourself with Karma. ATC is a better option. They will even read you the pertinent data for an approach.

That's what is so funny about doom and gloom you will die a horrible death if you fly with an iPad posts. They either seem to come from people who (1) have never had a paper chart tear, fall under the seats, get wet or just plain accidentally get left behind* or (2) assume that a pilot with an iPad has nothing whatsoever to back him up. If they get so bent out of shape losing a few charts, I'd sure hate to be with them during an emergency.

I think it's just fine to carry charts in whatever medium one wants to. In fact, when I saw the title to the thread, my first impression was, "yes, of course I do," even though I haven't carried paper charts for almost 4 years.


(* No that hasn't happened to me with paper charts (I know folks to whom it has). But then again, it hasn't happened to me in the 4 years I've been using an iPad either. And, yes, I am one of those extreme risk takers who, like those who bait alligators for fun, fly without paper backups.)
 
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Scrabo said:
Plus they are always doing "GPS testing" which can reduce your tablet to nothing more that a yoke accessory.
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Really? You consider a complete set of current VFR charts, IFR charts, approach plates, runway diagrams, AFDs, checklists, flight manuals and more, all a few touches away "nothing more than a yoke accessory?" What the heck do you carry with you??!!!
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Dav8or said:
I do have a very old SFO sectional in my flight bag. Don't know why. I haven't looked at it in years. I have 430W, 696 (powered by battery and ship power), iPad (powered by battery and ship power) and iPhone.


  • If my plane's power buss goes dead, I still have moving maps and sectionals.
  • If my iPad over heats and shuts down, I still have moving maps and sectionals.
  • If the Iranians hack the GPS and shut it down, I still have sectionals, VORs and the windows.
  • If the Chinese attack with a huge EMP burst and black out all my electronics at once and I find myself in very unfamiliar territory, then I will bust out the old paper sectional so I can find my way to nice place to ride out the inevitable nuclear exchange coming. Being out of date will be OK. Mountains and airports don't move much.
Sectionals are good for planning at home with though.
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:D Sounds like an Army training scenario. After the GPS gets jammed, the satellites get shot down, the Doppler nav fails, and all the NAVAIDs get shutdown, you still show up to the dance with just a paper 1:50,000 map and sweating your balls off in NBC gear. :yes:
 
A good question is: "What did you bring with you on your last Check Ride? Did your DPE ever fail your EFB? What was your backup. Go NORDO and beg ignorance?
 
44Gort said:
A good question is: "What did you bring with you on your last Check Ride? Did your DPE ever fail your EFB? What was your backup. Go NORDO and beg ignorance?
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It's certainly not a bad idea to bring paper charts to a checkride, although having electronic backups is just as acceptable, and I would argue that "I would call ATC and ask for help" would show excellent CRM skills, something that is already tested and will be more tested under the upcoming paradigm.

Exactly the opposite of NORDO.
 
Sectionals are useful if you have an intestinal emergency. They can be used for some limited containment as well as wiping/cleaning and then removal through an open plane window.
 
txflyer said:
Two words for the OMG! my electronics quit now I'm lost without a chart crowd.

Water towers. :wink2:
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Foreflight is nice, however the fact is it simply make you lazier as a pilot. Planning on paper forces you to look at everything along the way and not just the start and end points.

I love it, but dependency upon it is too great.
 
narchee said:
Sectionals are useful if you have an intestinal emergency. They can be used for some limited containment as well as wiping/cleaning and then removal through an open plane window.
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Limited? It's more volume than your typical barf bag.

Step 1: Fold in half creasing a line of longitude
Step 2: Fold in thirds (i.e. letter fold) with the creases along the lines of longitude.
Step 3: Fold in half along a line of latitude.
Step 4: Count off 2 layers of paper and open the pocket to do your business.

(optional) Step 5: After landing, get ramp checked and when the FAA inspector asks if you have a current sectional... :devil:
 

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I used to always have a current paper terminal area chart until a few months ago when "it flew" out the rental J3 Cub.

Now I have a paper sectional chart but will get another terminal one on the next cycle.

(My iphone overheated once and I could not use it, so I just feel better always having a chart as backup. And then I pin the expired one on the cubicle wall so I can daydream where I'd fly some day).
 
I always carry a power bank and have Foreflight on my iPad and iPhone. Usually id clip my iPhone in its life proof case to top of my knee-board and have it sitting there always on current pos.

Cross-country is different. Id have Foreflight do all the planning for me and simply jot down the legs on some paper as an improvised NAV log in case something happens. Right on run-up I activate my flight plan through Foreflight and Im off with relative sectionals sitting in the flight bag.
 
The electronic chart doesn't disappear if the GPS goes TU.
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That is a good thing :).



I think this thread can be summed up as follows:
"Different strokes for different folks."​
Click to expand...

Agree, Richard.
 
A friend of ours posted this pic tonight. She is old school flight planning her flight to Blakesburg.

She claims to have found the sectionals in a museum. I had not seen a flight plan done this way in many years!

:)

fbb5dd5b990a8cf46d40021c6d2d58e6.jpg
 
I'll be honest, I feel as if I'm more prepared for an unfamiliar xc when plotted on paper. Granted, I still use Foreflight to assist, but I actually prefer the paper chart on my lap. I'm weird like that.
 
I find fore flight easier to use than the paper..... but I'm a bit of a tech enthusiast so that's probably not surprising.
 
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