txflyer
En-Route
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
Anyone carry sectionals anymore?
- Thread starter txflyer
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As someone said, "Dont rely on GPS entirely, if the GPS signal goes down, there are going to be a LOT of LOST PILOTS!". And they are right, if the GPS signal ever goes down, there ARE going to be a lot of lost pilots!
Part of explaining why people use what they use is comparing advantages and disadvantages of the available options. I think it's a mistake to equate that with saying "you are a fool for using a tablet."
I don't think anyone is a fool for using one, I do myself. But if you're relying on it 100%...
I always have a paper sectional out and folded to where I am within easy reach. I've had enough iPad failures in-flight to know better.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
If that is your mitigation plan, that's fine. But why do you really think you need the paper as a backup vs a second/independent electronic source?
If I carried full paper backups for my coast to coast trips, it would amount to at least 20-25 lbs of extra weight and which was a primary reason for going to an EFB.
If I am going to carry that much paper, it might as well be the primary.
What would make me think that if one electronic unit fails that the other one won't or hasn't? If the GPS goes out, they're all useless; if it's heat, ditto. Battery lasts a good long time on paper, and as long as it's not on fire, heat won't bother it either.
I have no idea what you fly or what your mission is. I therefore can't comment on what's appropriate for you. That being said, I can't imagine that the several sectionals one might have to carry for a specific route across the country would weigh that much. Maybe every chart and all the approach plates for the whole country, but not for a specific route.
If GPS goes out, you still have the electronic chart - hardly "useless"
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Exactly. I'm not one of those that depends on the moving dot to know where I am.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
I fly a lot of IFR. Coast to coast requires multiple Jepp binders and lots of sectionals. That is a lot of weight. When I went to an EFB (back when I was only flying in the Southwest (2 Jepp binders) my flight bag lost almost 15 lbs of weight.
I gladly traded that for a couple of extra battery packs for the iPad and iPhone (and those are only used if there is a problem (or I forget) to charge the devices in flight.
Like I said earlier, if paper is what you want to use for your backup, that's fine - it is a valid backup, but please don't get holier than thou on those of us who don't do it your way.
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Velocity173
I used to fly around SD with just a paper sectional and no GPS. 
After awhile I didn't even look at a sectional. It's called SA and knowing your area. These days, unless it's a X-country I don't look at any paper charts or GPS.
After awhile I didn't even look at a sectional. It's called SA and knowing your area. These days, unless it's a X-country I don't look at any paper charts or GPS.EminiTrader
Cleared for Takeoff
WEll with the charts on the G1000 then 2 Ipads w/ stratus and a damn Iphone - I havent carried paper in over a year.
If GPS goes out - the chart is just like paper - except easier to carry
If GPS goes out - the chart is just like paper - except easier to carry
narchee
Line Up and Wait
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Long Blinker
The only time I ever carried paper was during training. Otherwise, hell no, this is the 21st century. I have triple redundancy for my electronic charts. The probability of all three sources going Tango Uniform is small enough to not worry about.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I still carry them. They're great for Origami. They'd be good at lining birdcages, if I had a bird.
Read the post immediately preceding yours. And the other post by people saying that if the GPS goes out you have nothing (except of course all the charts and other information they contain
)
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
People... remember that an EFB provides maps and huge amounts of data even if there is no GPS. Many people use EFBs without GPS receivers anyway - most of the airline guys use them that way. And those who do use them with GPS/ADS-B receivers would still have their maps, plates, databases, weather and some, albeit less, traffic in the absence of GPS.
If GPS went out EFBs would be the least of our problems.
This repeated argument about the GPS going out has nothing to do with the pros and cons of paper vs EFB. But when GPS is ON it can add something to an EFB map that paper can't match.
If GPS went out EFBs would be the least of our problems.
This repeated argument about the GPS going out has nothing to do with the pros and cons of paper vs EFB. But when GPS is ON it can add something to an EFB map that paper can't match.
This thread reminded me...... I've been carrying this pile of stuff since training. Have used none of it since and can't come up with a scenario where I'm likely to be using any of it. All the paper stuff is expired anyway.
The iPad I took the picture with is used every flight. Should that and my gns430 and my iPhone all fail at the same time I guess I'll pull out one of the sectionals in the map pocket but I doubt I ever would get to that point.
And without all the extras that flight bag makes a great overnight bag....
The iPad I took the picture with is used every flight. Should that and my gns430 and my iPhone all fail at the same time I guess I'll pull out one of the sectionals in the map pocket but I doubt I ever would get to that point.
And without all the extras that flight bag makes a great overnight bag....
Attachments
Read the post immediately preceding yours. And the other post by people saying that if the GPS goes out you have nothing (except of course all the charts and other information they contain
OK, I re-read those posts, and I still don't see how they equate to "you are a fool for using a tablet."
Gerhardt
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Gerhardt
I could be the only pilot who still carries a sectional and marks off where I am every several minutes. That's how I was trained in the pre-gps days. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when Garmin came along, but still did things the old-school way as redundancy. I've never needed the paper, I think I probably just do it out of habit.
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable not doing it.
As far as a second electronic device, thanks, but no.
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable not doing it.
As far as a second electronic device, thanks, but no.
RalphInCA
Cleared for Takeoff
Is this you?
Attachments
I guess we are just reading them a bit differently.
acrodisiac
Pre-Flight
Miss my paper charts......darned handy for covering the panel on hot sunny days
Stewartb
Final Approach
I use charts as topo maps. They're good to use for looking for new or alternate routes through the mountains. The best application example is flying for hunting. The mission isn't point A to point B but more exploratory. Charts beat tablets for seeing the bigger picture and they're easy to pack up the mountain.
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RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
Haha... That's like refusing to take an escalator so you won't get stuck in case the power goes out.
Got any tips for keeping those pesky neighborhood kids off your lawn?
tehmightypirate
Line Up and Wait
I carry a handful of my local sectionals that I keep within a few years of current or whenever I know a big change happens (airport closes or similar). Like yourself I haven't used one in-flight for about 4 years except maybe once during a flight review.
If one were looking for a reason to be offended, one could just as easily read the posts about using paper charts for toilet paper as "you're a fool to use paper charts."
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
I do this too. It depends on what you're using EFB-wise. The sectionals in FF are excellent quality and the ability to zoom them is great. I wonder if you could put up georeferenced quads on an iPad in flight. I haven't tried that but it would be handy for scouting as those quads are very high res.
EFBs, or even panel mounts like my GTN 750, that don't use the actual sectional are hiding information that I want. And given how much I paid for the stupid 750, it'd be nice if it could show sectionals or other charts. But it can't.
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oldShar
Cleared for Takeoff
I CARRY a local one.
Haven't used on (on the plane) in over a decade, but I do carry one
(and I do use them for planning ---- on the dining room table as a cross check or alternative big picture with Skyvector or FlyQ) as a last ditch CYA ....
Of course, if I loose my avionics, I'll likely be too busy flying the damned airplane to be worried about some stupid charts, but who knows? Maybe it would come in useful after the crash ...
Haven't used on (on the plane) in over a decade, but I do carry one
(and I do use them for planning ---- on the dining room table as a cross check or alternative big picture with Skyvector or FlyQ) as a last ditch CYA ....
Of course, if I loose my avionics, I'll likely be too busy flying the damned airplane to be worried about some stupid charts, but who knows? Maybe it would come in useful after the crash ...
That's because nobody said that.
This wasn't funny.