Anybody getting hired?

Pilot-To-Be

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I assume the current hiring environment is still stalled, but just curious if anyone has heard back on class dates, hiring schedules etc. I just hit 1420TT and was thinking about making an Airline Apps account for giggles to see what happens. I’m sure there still isn’t many nibbles happening, however.
 
This really isn’t the best resource, you may want to check out https://www.pprune.org/ and the Reddit forum r/flying. There’s are a few pro pilots here but most of us ain’t.
 
APC and/or JetCareers would be better forums to ask that question at.
 
I'm at 1250. from what I'm reading online it's tough market out there. I have been working on my resume, recommendation letters, and airline app for a while now. it's all ready to be sent out but I got discouraged. sounds like even 1500 hrs is nothing these days. so, I'm going to build up to 1500 hrs along with 50 multi then apply and see what happens. I hearing nobody will look at you under 2k hrs.
 
Job searching is like fishing, if you don’t bait the hook and toss it in you won’t catch anything.

There’s no harm in sending out applications and resumes. Hiring is fluid, they may not be hiring today, but tomorrow they may decide to hire. If your app or resume is not in their hands, then you don’t get called.
 
I'm at 1250. from what I'm reading online it's tough market out there.

Yup. My part 135 employer's hiring mins are 2500tt with all Part 135 IFR PIC mins met for a PC12. 500 multi before they look at you for a King Air. Those are mins and they don't want to be your first aviation employer. We are in need of pilots, but I've heard they won't budge on the total time mins.
 
It totally depends on where you are, qualifications wise. Always has. Remember the days of 10,000 applicants that had 5000+hrs, at least 1 type rating, 2500 pic at least 1000 jet with heavy preferred just to get you looked at as a white male. AND told the pool of applicants is pretty poor. We may hire as many as 20 this year. It all depends on your timing. I've been retired for a few years now. I have friends who are still working, mostly in the training departments. They tell me the applicants are getting better, but still not really what they would like to see. ( it never is) But they are training as fast as they can run them through the pipeline. Remember its not just the new hire pipeline, but the collateral effect of movement through the seniority list.

My advice........Keep plugging away, building credentials. Live clean and make health part of your plan. By living clean, I mean no tickets, good credit, debt free etc. Stay flexible on where and when you are available. The applicant who kept plugging away will be the most qualified when standing in the right place at the right time. You have a long way to go, try to enjoy the journey along the way. It will add character that will show in a big way come interview time.
 
Yup. My part 135 employer's hiring mins are 2500tt with all Part 135 IFR PIC mins met for a PC12. 500 multi before they look at you for a King Air. Those are mins and they don't want to be your first aviation employer. We are in need of pilots, but I've heard they won't budge on the total time mins.
How on earth do you get 500 multi if you're flying a PC12? :dunno:

Also, are you getting people for the King Airs with numbers like that? Plenty of places are putting people in the left seat of jets once they have 250 multi.
 
I assume you want to go to a regional airline. From what I have heard, they are only hiring through cadet programs right now. Apply to any that you have the mins for though.

The 135 guys have also increased their hiring mins. I would caution you not to not log a bunch of right seat time in single Pilot aircraft (Citation I, PC-12, King Air 90/200, HondaJet, etc.).

Turbine PIC is king for major airline applications. If you don’t go 121, find a way to get PIC quickly.
 
Plenty of places are putting people in the left seat of jets once they have 250 multi.

Yikes!

edit: Our insurance requires 3000TT and 1000 Multi for the jet. We did get a pilot approved under 3000 hours, but she had 1700 multi and 900 in the plane SIC.
 
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I'm not kidding when I say this.
Go to Oshkosh. Dress nice, bring your resume.

All the big players were out there and they all had people taking resumes.
Getting in front of someone physically is likely to do better for you than airline apps although I would do that too just because maybe you'll win the lottery.

I walked around the tent and talked to a lot of the different folks and some of them would look at your resume and say
don't give this to me go get 12 more of X-Type hours and email me your updated resume otherwise we're going to ignore it.

All of the players are different and they all want different things but they will tell you exactly what their environment is.

The benefits of doing this is afterwards you can go to SOS Brothers have a cold beer and then watch the Thunderbirds.

Probably not a bad idea to get on this website and start hitting some job fairs:

My gut tells me right now it's a lot more about getting in front of people than applying online and it feels like that in most Fields not just aviation.
I got my interview because I was able to hand my resume and a couple letters of recommendation to a human.

The short answer to your question though is the pendulum is starting to go back the right direction.
Classes at the big carriers in my area are resuming this week.
Most of the regionals in this area started classes mid December.
Cadets are being prioritized over pilots off the street.
 
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Yikes!

edit: Our insurance requires 3000TT and 1000 Multi for the jet. We did get a pilot approved under 3000 hours, but she had 1700 multi and 900 in the plane SIC.

2021 I was hired at a small 135 operation flying Citation II jets, 1500 tt 16 multi.

After a year and 300 sic they sent me to the sim for ATP and CE-500 PIC type. I had 2000 tt and about 300 multi when I became CA. Another PIC gave me 25 hrs SOE (supervised operator experience) since it was my first type. I did that for another 1.5 yrs and had 930 jet pic and approx 3000 tt. Then the big leagues called Oct ‘23.
 
2021 I was hired at a small 135 operation flying Citation II jets, 1500 tt 16 multi.

After a year and 300 sic they sent me to the sim for ATP and CE-500 PIC type. I had 2000 tt and about 300 multi when I became CA. Another PIC gave me 25 hrs SOE (supervised operator experience) since it was my first type. I did that for another 1.5 yrs and had 930 jet pic and approx 3000 tt. Then the big leagues called Oct ‘23.
Thats amazing you got hired at your 135 with those hours. Congrats on everything.
 
It was the Lord’s blessing for sure. I needed a new job and the timing worked perfectly.
Absolutely man. The lord has been good to me too. I just need one more blessing. lol
A friend of mine had his sister tell him he there is a chiropractor who said there is someone looking for a pilot. He sets up a chiro appt and gets that job info. Calls and gets hired to fly a small jet prop with very low hours. Today he is flying all kinds of jets and making a killing.
Right place and right time.
 
I'm not kidding when I say this.
Go to Oshkosh. Dress nice, bring your resume.

All the big players were out there and they all had people taking resumes.
Getting in front of someone physically is likely to do better for you than airline apps although I would do that too just because maybe you'll win the lottery.

I walked around the tent and talked to a lot of the different folks and some of them would look at your resume and say
don't give this to me go get 12 more of X-Type hours and email me your updated resume otherwise we're going to ignore it.

All of the players are different and they all want different things but they will tell you exactly what their environment is.

The benefits of doing this is afterwards you can go to SOS Brothers have a cold beer and then watch the Thunderbirds.

Probably not a bad idea to get on this website and start hitting some job fairs:

My gut tells me right now it's a lot more about getting in front of people than applying online and it feels like that in most Fields not just aviation.
I got my interview because I was able to hand my resume and a couple letters of recommendation to a human.

The short answer to your question though is the pendulum is starting to go back the right direction.
Classes at the big carriers in my area are resuming this week.
Most of the regionals in this area started classes mid December.
Cadets are being prioritized over pilots off the street.
Well damn. Looks like I am flying to Orlando for couple of nights thanks to you.
I agree networking and meeting faces are the way to go and I have totally sucked at that.
 
cadet programs
do we know whether cadet programs for anyone? even old people like us?

I would caution you not to not log a bunch of right seat time in single Pilot aircraft (Citation I, PC-12, King Air 90/200, HondaJet, etc.).
To add to this comment as someone who logs a little PC12 SIC, there is a fair amount of paperwork to do this legally on a per-flight basis. 1200TT can't come soon enough.
 
do we know whether cadet programs for anyone? even old people like us?
Every airline’s pipeline is different. United’s Aviate seems most comprehensive.


Delta and SWA seem a bit more targeted.



AA’s appears to geared those who can finance/PFJ

 
Do the airlines have much interest in guys in their mid 50's? Like someone with 1550 hours, 60 hours turbine PIC, 60 hours multi, minimum night and IMC?

Asking for a friend.
 
Do the airlines have much interest in guys in their mid 50's? Like someone with 1550 hours, 60 hours turbine PIC, 60 hours multi, minimum night and IMC?

Asking for a friend.

I bet they would offer an interview, especially during big hiring waves.
 
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Do the airlines have much interest in guys in their mid 50's? Like someone with 1550 hours, 60 hours turbine PIC, 60 hours multi, minimum night and IMC?

Asking for a friend.

I haven't seen age be much of a problem from a hiring standpoint - at my shop age isn't even noticed until an applicant comes in for an interview, and by then the job is theirs to lose.
 
@kaiser Many of those programs are tied with a structured 141 training program like ATP, American Flyers, etc

I did all part 61. In 2020, at a Thrust Flight CFI Academy I did a HR interview with Envoy and they made me a “cadet”. They send me some books/swag and promised a final interview when I was approaching mins. Then the shutdown occurred which vaporized the program. Once they started hiring again, they said as a former cadet they will give me an in person final interview. However, I decided to upgrade to CA in the 135 company instead.
 
I would caution you not to not log a bunch of right seat time in single Pilot aircraft (Citation I, PC-12, King Air 90/200, HondaJet, etc.).
Why not, provided it's logged legally?

That is, if it's a part 91 leg, you don't log anything unless you're the sole manipulator of the controls. Part 135, it depends if you have the SIC in lieu of autopilot OpSpec (A015) - If you do, it's the same as 91. If you don't have the A015 OpSpec, you can log the time *if* you have passengers and you're operating IFR (135.101) in which case you can either log PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i) for the time where you are sole manipulator*, or SIC under 61.51(f)(2) for the time where you are simply acting as a required SIC.

* If you're at a 135 operator with OpSpec A062 SIC PDP, you do not log PIC even on sole manipulator legs (See the 61.159 exception to 61.51(e)(1)(i)), you log SIC under 61.51(f)(3) instead, providing you're operating that leg within the requirements of 135.99(c) in a multiengine (piston or turbine) or single-engine turbine airplane.
__________

Now - All that said - There are airlines that want to know how many hours of acting PIC time you have. Sometimes that time will be loggable in a single-pilot airplane - 61.51(e)(1)(i) if you're flying the plane, 61.51(e)(1)(iii) if you're acting PIC on a 135 IFR passenger leg. However, other times (91, VFR, or no pax) when you're not the sole manipulator it's not loggable at all according to 61.51 but may be something that counts towards the acting PIC time the airline might want to see. For this reason, I've added a custom time field to my ForeFlight logbook for "Acting PIC". On otherwise loggable legs, I fill that in with the total time for the leg and everything else is the same. For legs that would not otherwise be loggable, I log 0 for everything except the Acting PIC field. I also went back through my entire logbook and filled in that field where appropriate, so now I know how much acting PIC I have in case I ever decide to go fly for an airline that wants things done their own way.
Yikes!

edit: Our insurance requires 3000TT and 1000 Multi for the jet. We did get a pilot approved under 3000 hours, but she had 1700 multi and 900 in the plane SIC.
I've seen ads that say 250, but I know in our case it would have been for people who already had a fair amount of single-engine turbine experience, plus most/all of that 250 hours in the right seat of the type they'd be flying as captain.
Thats amazing you got hired at your 135 with those hours. Congrats on everything.
At that time, that was a pretty hireable in 135. We were taking people at 1000 TT, or 900TT + CFI, even a little less if they'd meet those numbers after training was complete.
To add to this comment as someone who logs a little PC12 SIC, there is a fair amount of paperwork to do this legally on a per-flight basis. 1200TT can't come soon enough.
What paperwork? Aside from the logbook, there's no other paperwork required unless you're logging it under an SIC PDP, in which case the PIC needs to sign your logbook with a little blurb about meeting the SIC PDP requirements.
 
FWIW, as someone who manages an SIC PDP program, the PICs must be trained on the PDP program. I figure most are most places, but there is additional training required that must be documented on the PICs end. In our case we just added a module to our recurrent CBTs last year to comply.
 
Why not, provided it's logged legally?

That is, if it's a part 91 leg, you don't log anything unless you're the sole manipulator of the controls. Part 135, it depends if you have the SIC in lieu of autopilot OpSpec (A015) - If you do, it's the same as 91. If you don't have the A015 OpSpec, you can log the time *if* you have passengers and you're operating IFR (135.101) in which case you can either log PIC under 61.51(e)(1)(i) for the time where you are sole manipulator*, or SIC under 61.51(f)(2) for the time where you are simply acting as a required SIC.

* If you're at a 135 operator with OpSpec A062 SIC PDP, you do not log PIC even on sole manipulator legs (See the 61.159 exception to 61.51(e)(1)(i)), you log SIC under 61.51(f)(3) instead, providing you're operating that leg within the requirements of 135.99(c) in a multiengine (piston or turbine) or single-engine turbine airplane.
__________

Now - All that said - There are airlines that want to know how many hours of acting PIC time you have. Sometimes that time will be loggable in a single-pilot airplane - 61.51(e)(1)(i) if you're flying the plane, 61.51(e)(1)(iii) if you're acting PIC on a 135 IFR passenger leg. However, other times (91, VFR, or no pax) when you're not the sole manipulator it's not loggable at all according to 61.51 but may be something that counts towards the acting PIC time the airline might want to see. For this reason, I've added a custom time field to my ForeFlight logbook for "Acting PIC". On otherwise loggable legs, I fill that in with the total time for the leg and everything else is the same. For legs that would not otherwise be loggable, I log 0 for everything except the Acting PIC field. I also went back through my entire logbook and filled in that field where appropriate, so now I know how much acting PIC I have in case I ever decide to go fly for an airline that wants things done their own way.

I've seen ads that say 250, but I know in our case it would have been for people who already had a fair amount of single-engine turbine experience, plus most/all of that 250 hours in the right seat of the type they'd be flying as captain.

At that time, that was a pretty hireable in 135. We were taking people at 1000 TT, or 900TT + CFI, even a little less if they'd meet those numbers after training was complete.

What paperwork? Aside from the logbook, there's no other paperwork required unless you're logging it under an SIC PDP, in which case the PIC needs to sign your logbook with a little blurb about meeting the SIC PDP requirements.
My head hurts. lol
Thank you for the info though.
 
That’s why I say stay away from the sic time in single pilot planes. Too complicated and your initial atp examiner may balk. Or the interviewer turns his nose up at your experience.
 
That has always been the conundrum hasn’t it?
-how do you get experience if you don’t have experience?

… Those are mins and they don't want to be your first aviation employer...

I am baffled that part 91 operators such as Net Jets want more experience/total time than let’s say, United Airlines.
But that’s how it is!?!
 
I am baffled that part 91 operators such as Net Jets want more experience/total time than let’s say, United Airlines.
Net Jets at least trains/checks to 135 or 121 requirements. And most of the people I know who have done both consider corporate flying to be generally more challenging than airline flying with regard to the variety of operations.
 
What paperwork? Aside from the logbook, there's no other paperwork required unless you're logging it under an SIC PDP, in which case the PIC needs to sign your logbook with a little blurb about meeting the SIC PDP requirements.
Yes this. isn't that already a lot? then the compliance paperwork and FML and locating and and and :)

FWIW, as someone who manages an SIC PDP program, the PICs must be trained on the PDP program. I figure most are most places, but there is additional training required that must be documented on the PICs end. In our case we just added a module to our recurrent CBTs last year to comply.
Also need 6 months as PIC before one can sign SIC PDPs.
 
Do the airlines have much interest in guys in their mid 50's? Like someone with 1550 hours, 60 hours turbine PIC, 60 hours multi, minimum night and IMC?

Asking for a friend.
We’ve been hiring folks from 28-58 roughly. But, not with those kinds of hours.
 
That’s why I say stay away from the sic time in single pilot planes. Too complicated and your initial atp examiner may balk. Or the interviewer turns his nose up at your experience.
I made it very complicated by including all of the various 135 scenarios. Part 91 it's simple: Are you flying a plane you're rated for (Category, Class, and if applicable, Type)? If so, log it. Done. 61.51(e)(1)(i) is clear, if a bit counterintuitive at first, but there are a zillion FAA interpretations that all say the same thing. Log it.

Part 135 is already a mass of complex regulations. If you can fly 135, you can figure out what legs it's legal to log. It's a helluva lot easier than figuring out what your alternate minimums are. :rofl:
Yes this. isn't that already a lot? then the compliance paperwork and FML and locating and and and :)
It's no more than any run-of-the-mill part 91 instructional flight would be. All that other stuff exists regardless.

Bottom line, it's worth logging the time that you are entitled to log. And I say this as someone who is just a hair shy of the 3,000 hours that many employers want because I always tried to choose legs that would let the young guys log more time.
 
I'm not kidding when I say this.
Go to Oshkosh. Dress nice, bring your resume.

All the big players were out there and they all had people taking resumes.
Getting in front of someone physically is likely to do better for you than airline apps although I would do that too just because maybe you'll win the lottery.

I walked around the tent and talked to a lot of the different folks and some of them would look at your resume and say
don't give this to me go get 12 more of X-Type hours and email me your updated resume otherwise we're going to ignore it.

All of the players are different and they all want different things but they will tell you exactly what their environment is.

The benefits of doing this is afterwards you can go to SOS Brothers have a cold beer and then watch the Thunderbirds.

Probably not a bad idea to get on this website and start hitting some job fairs:

My gut tells me right now it's a lot more about getting in front of people than applying online and it feels like that in most Fields not just aviation.
I got my interview because I was able to hand my resume and a couple letters of recommendation to a human.

The short answer to your question though is the pendulum is starting to go back the right direction.
Classes at the big carriers in my area are resuming this week.
Most of the regionals in this area started classes mid December.
Cadets are being prioritized over pilots off the street.
I’m really hoping you get to my airline soon so I can fly with you!
 
I am baffled that part 91 operators such as Net Jets want more experience/total time than let’s say, United Airlines.
But that’s how it is!?!

Posted minimums aren't the same as competitive minimums - today's pilot coming through the door at United will generally have much higher time than the posted mins. The majors post low minimums to hire fighter pilots, who tend to have less TT due to the nature of their flying. Us mortals need a lot more to get looked at, and I'd be willing to bet that the typical TT of pilots in today's class at United is significantly higher than that of Netjets.

Now before anyone gets butthurt about my post, none of this has anything to do with how tough the job is, how good a pilot you need to be, or whatever else you tell girls at the bar. ;) It's purely based on demand. The post-COVID years saw hiring demand that was unprecedented, and the competitive mins at the legacies dropped to levels that were pretty unbelievable. We're back to a more normal hiring environment, and as such the competitive mins have adjusted upwards accordingly.
 
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