Any Tips on Battling an Unwanted Property Development

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

En-Route
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
3,187
Location
Central AR
Display Name
Display name:
ARFlyer
Over the past few months a local land developer has been trying to get a permit to build a new subdivision in our area of the county. The guy tried to sale the 200 acres a few years ago but couldn't find buyers.

He wants to build a 400+ house neighborhood within 200 acres on top of a ridge line. To do this approximately 30' of the ridge will be sliced off to provide enough room. Also a sewage treatment plant with a retention pond will be built. The neighbors do not want this developent to happen. It doesn't fit the character of the area where the smallest lot is 5/10 acres. It will also drastically increase the traffic on our local county road.

We are also extremely worried about the pollution run off from this "retention pound" on our local creek, where the locals swim during the summer.

The county neighborhood association has successfully fought off the city and local EPA approval, however one last vote is scheduled and has been a topic in the local news.

So does anyone have an last minute tips on helping out the cause?
 
You need to demonstrate how the development would be bad to the county, not just your local community. Conduct research on how the necessary infrastructure expenses would cost the county, and demonstrate how the additional revenue any make up for it. Consider schools, fire, police, etc. further, demonstrate the lack of demand for housing, showing that even if they redevelop the area, it may take a while for buyers to show up.

Finally, the EA should kill it, if it hasn't done so already.

And worse comes to worst, claim the development is a hazard to air navigation.

(Strike that last comment...then they'll just try to shut down the local airport.
 
The developer, who's going to put $$$ into the project has determined that there is a market for 400 houses. So those houses are going to happen, whether on that piece of land or another. Development happens. Don't stonewall it. Guide it in the direction you want.

Your best arguments rely on local land use plans and zoning. If that area is supposed to remain low density housing on the land development master plan (your county has one of those, right?), you can pitch that angle in opposition.

The retention pond/water treatment plant story sounds incorrect. Retention ponds are typically for stormwater, not sanitary sewer. Get your facts absolutely right before you raise that flag.
 
Any history on the land? Civil War battles? Burial grounds? If you are feeling sneaky, bury a lot of arrowheads on the property...

The developer will need a lot of financing for a project of this size. Find out who will provide that and start a letter writing campaign.

If there is only one vote left in this process you may be too late. Good luck and fight hard!
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
start a pig farm....on your property.:yikes::goofy:
Click to expand...

My buddy pretty much did that. He dug up the rattiest nastiest 1970s era mobile homes he could find and started a "trailer park" across the street from where a new development was being built.
 
Think you have a couple of directions to take the fight.

Zoning - how is the land currently zoned? Is the developer within the guidelines or is he requesting a zoning change or curative amendment. If this needs to go before the zoning hearing board, you have a good opportunity to raise the issues and provide facts on whether it meets requirements or not. Decisions before a zoning hearing board may or may not be appealed to county/state court, I don't know your states regs.

Subdivision and land development ordinances - does the developer meet these? Again, you have the ability to challenge what the developer is doing. If he is asking for changes, that is another avenue to challenge. The traffic issue is a good one, will the project result in additional expenditures by the local government to account for this?

Water, stormwater and sewer provisions - can the developer provide adequate quality and quantity of drinking water. Same applies to septic. Is the developer relying on a stream discharge for the septic treatment plant? Sounds like you may be able to get some support from the state/EPA on water quality issues. Stormwater control and quality is another area where you may be able to get some state/EPA support.

Public involvement - On the local level, IMHO, voters REALLY do count. Nothing gets a local mayor, supervisor, commissioner's attention like a bunch of letters, phone calls or e-mails. Do you have a organized group in opposition? The more the better. Have there been any public meetings on the project, or can you get some scheduled? Time is money to the developer, the longer the process can be dragged out, the better for you. If you do have local media coverage, the bigger the turnout, the better. What is the city/townships/counties position?

The more facts that you can provide (along with a few emotionally outraged citizens :D) the more likely you will get attention.

Good luck!

Gary
 
Gary pretty much nailed it. Check your zoning for the area. If the developer has not yet put forth an official application, you can file a change to zoning that might negatively affect his project. Once filed, that stops (temporarily) any further development on that land until the zoning ordanance change is resolved.
Sometimes, once the developer sees the opposition, he bails out. There is little sense in throwing good money away.
 
I don't think you will stop it. But like most large home projects in AR, the buyers will not be there.

Demand roadway improvements, green energy projects like solar, increased tax base, build new schools to support 400 more kids.


If he wants to do it, I doubt you will stop it. It's tax revenue to the city/county and it's HIS property. Take that new job and base somewhere else if it's that big a deal.
 
Right off the bat in reading the OP, I do wonder...is this property in a resort area? Some of the information in the OP causes me pause.

Trimming a hill down 30' is unbelievably expensive.
Building sewage treatment capacity is unbelievably expensive
The development is 200 acres...pretty small. The only way to get 400 homes on 200 acres is with 1/3 acre or smaller lots. Consideration for roads, greenspace and even the treatment facility will eat into this parcel pretty quickly.

Rarely do developers I have had experience with build sewage treatment plants so you might have a few facts out of place or incomplete information or...in fact ,this might be a case where the developer is required to build sewage treatment capacity. We had a county next to my home county put a two year moratorium on building permits until sewage capacity was in place. My point here is that, at least in NC, the sewage treatment capacity is almost always a municipal function, not a function of a developer. The infrastructure to deliver raw sewage to the treatment plant is typically on the developer.

If the developer having to build capacity is actually the case, it seems like a huge expense for a 200 acre development. The cost to build treatment capacity would need to be the offset by nicer, larger homes. If this is all acurate, the tax base that 400 larger homes with water and sewer systems (therefore allowing a denser development ratio) will contribute heavily to the local tax base and will be seen by some as a positive.

All that said, most, if not all, developments above a certain size are required to deal with stormwater runoff and building and maintaining a retention pond or two (depending on many factors) are a part of the process for approval. The ponds do not handle raw sewage and depending on if is a wet or dry 'pond", they can be attrractively worked into the development. As an aside, our county likes dry ponds, our city likes wet ponds...they are designed to be a good things for the environment in terms of sediments and pollutants in the runoff water that makes it back to the watershed.

So all that to say this...look closely at sewage capacity for the area. Call the utility to see if the capacity exists for this development. This should be relatively simple to figure out.

The sewage capacity will directly affect the allowed density of the development. The ability of the soil to handle septic fields will also affect the density.

Many times this detail and the costs surrounding the requirements are a deciding factor in a permit and density of a development.
 
Gary's post is spot on and much more comprehensive that my post which focused mainly on the sewage treatment capacity. It contains very salient points in many of the step in the development process.

I got stuck on the sewage treament capacity being built by the developer. That's just odd within my experience.
 
Last edited:
I wonder what the farm and ranch owners thought of your development when it was announced?

"All those homes packed in on only 5acre tracts?? The traffic, the noise . . . ."

Just sayin.
 
Blatham489 said:
I wonder what the farm and ranch owners thought of your development when it was announced?

"All those homes packed in on only 5acre tracts?? The traffic, the noise . . . ."

Just sayin.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Zoning is a beeyotch. The people who are already in an area typically want development to stop the day they bought their house. Until the day they want to sell their house to someone who wants to build a shopping mall, and then the story changes dramatically.
 
Why not just let him do what he wants to do and move on with your life. If it is within the county, state and federal regulations, it is his property and he has every right to do what they are proposing. He gave you and the community the option to buy the property as you say. If you want to preserve the land, join together and put your money where your mouth is. That is my opinion.
 
kyleb said:
Exactly. Zoning is a beeyotch. The people who are already in an area typically want development to stop the day they bought their house. Until the day they want to sell their house to someone who wants to build a shopping mall, and then the story changes dramatically.
Click to expand...

Well... there is some of the NIMBY sentiment out there. But, good, well written zoning can also allow a property owner to develop his property even if the opposition is emotional rather then factual. I do believe the residents of a community should have some say in how their local area is developed.

Gary
 
Thanks for the replies so far, I'll post more information when I get home
Tonight. I have answers to a few of the mentioned items.
 
Gary said:
Well... there is some of the NIMBY sentiment out there. But, good, well written zoning can also allow a property owner to develop his property even if the opposition is emotional rather then factual. I do believe the residents of a community should have some say in how their local area is developed.

Gary
Click to expand...

I understand your sentiment and I share it to some extent. On the other hand, I also believe that I should be free to do what I want with my property unless it prohibits you from the quiet enjoyment of your property.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
start a pig farm....on your property.:yikes::goofy:
Click to expand...

Nahhh...in Arkansas it would be "build chicken houses." They're quite prolific and extremely odiferous!!!

That'd quell any person's reasonable dreams of planting a residential development nearby.

Of course, I think Andrew would rather have the residential development than chicken houses as a neighbor.
 
Cutting 30' off a ridge line is very expensive, not to mention wastewater treatment facilities, for which the design is usually approved by the state environmental and Dept of Health agencies. The cost for SWPPP measures for cutting the ridge alone make me cringe. I would recommend you and your neighbors attend the next county board meeting and express your concerns. At the end of the day, it could go either way, the almighty dollar wields a lot of power, especially in projected tax revenue for the county.
 
timwinters said:
Nahhh...in Arkansas it would be "build chicken houses." They're quite prolific and extremely odiferous!!!

That'd quell any person's reasonable dreams of planting a residential development nearby.

Of course, I think Andrew would rather have the residential development than chicken houses as a neighbor.
Click to expand...

I was considering putting in a small chicken house. I consulted with an Ol timer who owns a chicken farm and produces 80k chickens about every two weeks for Tyson.

Simply said, don't do it. There is no money in chicken houses. Enough to put food on the table and a roof over your head. But just under 200k ish chickens to Tyson a month has left him with little saved and rough hands. He sent all,his kids to college or the military and said he is going to doze the houses in 2 years and sell the land to retire on.
 
The developer wants to rezone the land from single family lots to planned urban neighborhood. He also has to get waivers for just about everything. The proposed area goes against every future planning the city has in the area. The planning commission told him when he was first denyed that it goes aganist the city's wish for the area. Also the roads will have to be nonstandard which worries the board.

The city gave him a several page list of items that he had to have plans to do or have done before they would approve the permit. The list includes everything from streetlights to additional permits from every major agency of the area.

The sewage planet will use two open aeration ponds that will dump into the local creek via overflows. So the ponds are not for storm water but for wastewater. This is one of the major points that leads our neighborhood to be STONGLY aganist. The local EPA and Dept. Of Environment Quality has stated that the builder he wants to use has had numrous violations in the past regarding projects of similar design.

The ending statement from the city planning commission was that the development is strongly aganist the character of the area. That the development is best suited for a urban environment and not a rural environment.
 
Last edited:
JasonM said:
Why not just let him do what he wants to do and move on with your life. If it is within the county, state and federal regulations, it is his property and he has every right to do what they are proposing. He gave you and the community the option to buy the property as you say. If you want to preserve the land, join together and put your money where your mouth is. That is my opinion.
Click to expand...

We had the opportunity to buy the land to prevent this from happening years ago. My grandfather had a gentlemen agreement from the owner. However, the night before we were to sign the papers this guy came in and offered the dude cash. When this guy was offering the land up for sale a few years later he was WAYYY above market and common sense price.

The land is to expensive to build even a single family home upon. The hill is very steep and almost pure slate and Quartz rock. The flat area around the creek is within a major FEMA flood plain so the insurance is through the roof. The last four people who've tried to build on the land across the street have ultimately failed. The last guy got as far as a clearing the land a bit, a fence and a mailbox before they disappeared.
 
I've seen this over and over again. You do battle with one developer, who eventually gives up. Then, before you know it, another guy with more money, clout and greed takes over and builds something worse that what the first guy originally planned.

Unless you've got a solid reason for development not to happen in this area, its gonna happen. Its happening all over. Careful what you wish for. You just might get it, and then some!

I still have a rental property that was in a nice middle-class neighborhood with quiet streets and manicured lawns. An assisted living facility wanted to expand, which would have resulted in a parking lot with a fence and landscaping abutting our little development. The neighbors all fought it. Even though I thought I presented a valid argument for it on the grounds that the small additional parking lot with planned fence and landscaping would present a nice buffer, replacing the ratty little strip of undeveloped land full of trash and blackberry bushes that was there. But, they prevailed. 1 year later a developer bought the land and very quickly built low-budget homes on postage stamp sized lots and wound up getting some of them qualified for section 8 housing. My property is now across from neighbors who store garbage in a non-running vehicle parked in the side yard, throw parties that include loud cook-out/drinking sessions in the front yard and park their old jalopies all up and down the curb in front of my house. I moved out and rented the house out. There is such a shortage of rental property that its never empty. I feel sorry for my tenants that its all they can afford. its a messed up world.
 
This makes more sense. Sewer treatment and cutting rock ridge lines would preclude a project that contained only housing from being profitable.

Not seeing the plans of this project makes me guess that this type of development here in NC would be called mixed use development. This type of development is quite successful in the areas that I have seen it carried out. I am sure it is not without huge risks anywhere you attempt it.

If my correlation of zoning types is correct, the introduction of ability to have commercial zoning will be the keystone in making this profitable.


ARFlyer said:
The developer wants to rezone the land from single family lots to planned urban neighborhood. He also has to get waivers for just about everything. The proposed area goes against every future planning the city has in the area. The planning commission told him when he was first denyed that it goes aganist the city's wish for the area. Also the roads will have to be nonstandard which worries the board.

The city gave him a several page list of items that he had to have plans to do or have done before they would approve the permit. The list includes everything from streetlights to additional permits from every major agency of the area.

The sewage planet will use two open aeration ponds that will dump into the local creek via overflows. So the ponds are not for storm water but for wastewater. This is one of the major points that leads our neighborhood to be STONGLY aganist. The local EPA and Dept. Of Environment Quality has stated that the builder he wants to use has had numrous violations in the past regarding projects of similar design.

The ending statement from the city planning commission was that the development is strongly aganist the character of the area. That the development is best suited for a urban environment and not a rural environment.
Click to expand...
 
Move.

I never understood people who buy a house in a subdivision, then complain and try and stop more subdivisions in their area. It's called private enterprise, capitalism, and the free market. Our economy is based on these principles.
 
This thread reminds me that a number of years ago a neighbor came by with a petition to block a new subdivision. She was a little miffed when I wouldn't sign it. I've never been in favor of the, "I'm here, now you stay out" attitude. I realized just now that the subdivision was never built; probably because the market went downhill in 2009.
 
Last edited:
If you want to stop the development, buy the land, then you can do whatever you want or don't want with it.
 
Buy some Indian artifacts and bury them in strategic locations on the property. Problem solved.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Buy some Indian artifacts and bury them in strategic locations on the property. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Alternately, hire a biologist to find some endangered critter living on the acreage or in the creek downstream of the proposed sewage plant.
 
Clark1961 said:
Alternately, hire a biologist to find some endangered critter living on the acreage or in the creek downstream of the proposed sewage plant.
Click to expand...

preble's meadow jumping mouse ... stopped all development on and around the Rocky Flats site ... oh wait ... how did all those houses get there now?
 
gkainz said:
preble's meadow jumping mouse ... stopped all development on and around the Rocky Flats site ... oh wait ... how did all those houses get there now?
Click to expand...

Sekret government agency desire to study the effect of nuclear manufacturing wastes on a population of humans. They've already documented the two headed deer, the five legged coyotes, and the jack rabbits with horns.
 
Geico266 said:
Move.

I never understood people who buy a house in a subdivision, then complain and try and stop more subdivisions in their area. It's called private enterprise, capitalism, and the free market. Our economy is based on these principles.
Click to expand...

We arn't in a subdivision. The only reason the land is zoned as such is because we recently were placed under the future planning zone. The area is very much rural to very lighty neighborhoodish. The number of houses has been stable for about 30 years. We've own our land of 40 acres for roughly 50.

We tried to buy the land a number of years ago but got undercut unfairly by the current developer.
 
ARFlyer said:
The developer wants to rezone the land from single family lots to planned urban neighborhood. He also has to get waivers for just about everything. The proposed area goes against every future planning the city has in the area. The planning commission told him when he was first denyed that it goes aganist the city's wish for the area. Also the roads will have to be nonstandard which worries the board.

The city gave him a several page list of items that he had to have plans to do or have done before they would approve the permit. The list includes everything from streetlights to additional permits from every major agency of the area.

The sewage planet will use two open aeration ponds that will dump into the local creek via overflows. So the ponds are not for storm water but for wastewater. This is one of the major points that leads our neighborhood to be STONGLY aganist. The local EPA and Dept. Of Environment Quality has stated that the builder he wants to use has had numrous violations in the past regarding projects of similar design.

The ending statement from the city planning commission was that the development is strongly aganist the character of the area. That the development is best suited for a urban environment and not a rural environment.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks for the new info!

If the developer wants to take this further, your first opportunity is the zoning change. Sounds like the local planning commission/zoning board aren't all that enthusiastic about this to begin with. It's not that unusual for a developer to submit a conceptual plan to the planning commission just to see what his chances are and what he needs to move forward. From what you described, he's got quite the list. It's highly unlikely the planning commission will do anything else until the zoning change/variance/waivers issues are resolved. Most zoning hearing boards are sort of like an informal court. They take the presentation/justification from the developer as well as any opposing views. The city (if they wish) can present their case, either for/against. Your best chance is to do your best to convince the City to present a case against. Get your own facts together and present your case as well at the zoning meeting. I can't emphasize the importance of getting local residents on board with this. If the city is kinda on the fence, a group of citizens with a well organized case can really help you out with this. Talk to the city, have the others do so as well. Stress character of the area, traffic, city costs to maintain, environmental issues (sounds like you've got some good ones - double oxidation ponds - that's so 1920-sh) and the ability of the developer to do this somewhere else and be in compliance with existing zoning. Again.. the more the merrier! The more involvement with the locals the better. Go to the meetings and have as big of a crowd as possible. If you've go your act in gear, supported with facts, you will get an audience. Speaking to your local state representative is also a good idea - again, if the rep starts getting calls, he will listen and can be a great (and free) resource. Having a few of the those more "emotional" folks along doesn't hurt either, but the case will be made on the facts, the impact (costs) to the city and the "flavor" of your presentation. Good luck!! Even if you lose in the zoning board, the game isn't over, this is just round #1.

Gary
 
ARFlyer said:
We tried to buy the land a number of years ago but got undercut unfairly by the current developer.
Click to expand...

If you'd offered a better deal, the seller would have gladly taken your money.
 
Hire or install some billboard surrounding the area, "Site of Future Hi-Level Nuclear Waste Containment Facility"
They'll never sell a home!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top