Any Duke Drivers?

LDJones

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
10,998
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Display Name
Display name:
Jonesy
Yeah, I've heard all the recent jokes and seen the animated video. Funny stuff.

But it looks like I may be spending a lot more time in one. I'm looking for those with significant hours in them who might like to share some experienced perspective on Duke ops.

Thanks in advance.
 
No experience flying them, but I must admit, I'm jealous if you're going to be. In spite of all their faults, I'd love to fly one.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
No experience flying them, but I must admit, I'm jealous if you're going to be. In spite of all their faults, I'd love to fly one.
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Yes, I've admired them for years, despite their reputation (some deserved, some not so much.) I flew it for the second time today. 760 hp definitely gets things going. It handles like a heavier Baron or much heavier Bo, but still very nice. Key is the care and feeding of the fire-breathing dragons. I'm learning all I can about them. I'm being mentored by some pretty seasoned Duke experts, but looking for all the info I can find.

I'll let you know how it goes.
 
The TIO-541s are supposedly loved by people have ones that work well. Even George Braly said that running them LOP is difficult (although not impossible).

The engines themselves were rather interesting. The 380 HP a side rating is optimistic at best, and in reality they make about 10-30 HP a side less than that for one that's running well. Still gives a decent kick in the rear. My recollection is that rated is around 2900 RPM, with recommended cruise around 2300-2500. That's not too far off what the 310 does (rated at 2850 RPM and cruise at 2300-2500).

They probably have some of the worst detonation characteristics in the piston world, but so long as they're operated with conservative mixture settings, it's not a problem. Navajo Chieftains are regarded as being the most prone to detonation out of any piston engine (the GTSIO-520 isn't far behind), but you don't see cylinders falling off because people run them properly, and 100LL is a very good fuel.
 
LDJones said:
Yeah, I've heard all the recent jokes and seen the animated video. Funny stuff.

But it looks like I may be spending a lot more time in one. I'm looking for those with significant hours in them who might like to share some experienced perspective on Duke ops.

Thanks in advance.
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But the RV-10 is the perfect airplane for your mission!

:rofl::rofl:
 
Has it been flying regularly prior to the purchase?

LDJones said:
Here we go, again! Seriously, I love the RV-10...I want one. But the guy is buying the Duke instead. So the Duke it is.
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The only thing I know about the Duke is what I've learned from leaving noseprints on the windows... :D

So all I can say is that they are beautiful airplanes and hope you enjoy flying it. :yesnod:
 
wabower said:
Has it been flying regularly prior to the purchase?
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Yes, very regularly and excellent maintenance by an experienced Duke shop. It appears to be in great condition with all the bells and whistles.
 
My cousin had a Duke. After fighting the engines he did the turbine conversion. Now that was a rocketship. Sold it and bought a King Air but he still misses the cruise speed of the Duke.
 
make sure to visit only long runways with good shops on the field
 
yakdriver said:
My cousin had a Duke. After fighting the engines he did the turbine conversion. Now that was a rocketship. Sold it and bought a King Air but he still misses the cruise speed of the Duke.
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The Rocket Engineering turbine conversion is impressive. I don't think that's in the game plan, although I wouldn't object! I think they claim 290 kts at altitude plus more useful load. http://www.royalturbine.com/
 
LDJones said:
The Rocket Engineering turbine conversion is impressive. I don't think that's in the game plan, although I wouldn't object! I think they claim 290 kts at altitude plus more useful load. http://www.royalturbine.com/
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I think that conversion is the maximum amount of sex you can put on 3 wheels and a pair of wings.

I'm convinced I'll own a Duke before I die. I may also die due to financial stresses caused by aforementioned Duke. :D I hope any estate I leave understands that I will need to be buried in said duke -- or at least trimmed up, powered up, autopilot coupled to GPS -D-> Honolulu or something and just launched west...
 
Mike has it right: A Duke would make a good coffin. Certainly, plenty of others have found it workable for that, intentionally or otherwise. :yikes:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Mike has it right: A Duke would make a good coffin. Certainly, plenty of others have found it workable for that, intentionally or otherwise. :yikes:
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Sadly, I don't think there is an airframe out there that hasn't been put to that use. :sad:
 
LDJones said:
Sadly, I don't think there is an airframe out there that hasn't been put to that use. :sad:
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Very true. My understanding is that Dukes aren't particularly forgiving OEI, and are at the legal limit for rudder input forces. Best get to the leg press.

Are there any Duke sims? Most pressurized/cabin class twins they seem to want sim training for, but I suppose it depends on your insurance broker.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Very true. My understanding is that Dukes aren't particularly forgiving OEI, and are at the legal limit for rudder input forces. Best get to the leg press.

Are there any Duke sims? Most pressurized/cabin class twins they seem to want sim training for, but I suppose it depends on your insurance broker.
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We're bringing in a guy that specializes in Duke transition training. He'll put me through a five day intensive course with about 10 hrs in the plane. That's supposed to happen once the deal is finalized. The current owner/pilot will also fly co-pilot for the first 10 hrs or so until I'm completely comfortable with it...especially in ice. He's well versed in its ice carrying capabilities. Flying in the upper Midwest, that's pretty important.
 
LDJones said:
We're bringing in a guy that specializes in Duke transition training. He'll put me through a five day intensive course with about 10 hrs in the plane. That's supposed to happen once the deal is finalized. The current owner/pilot will also fly co-pilot for the first 10 hrs or so until I'm completely comfortable with it...especially in ice. He's well versed in its ice carrying capabilities. Flying in the upper Midwest, that's pretty important.
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I'd be interested in a pirep, particularly concerning OEI rudder input forces. :)
 
LDJones said:
The Rocket Engineering turbine conversion is impressive. I don't think that's in the game plan, although I wouldn't object! I think they claim 290 kts at altitude plus more useful load. http://www.royalturbine.com/
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For the same price as a Conquest II, you get 1/2 to 3/4 of the airplane!:rolleyes:
I have never owned a Duke, only flew a short trip in one, it's small inside and used a lot of runway. But, it is a SEXY looking bird!:D
 
www.dukeflyers.org

There are some passionate operators of Duke's out there. Who like most other maligned types would like to provide you with some input from actual owners.
 
N747JB said:
For the same price as a Conquest II, you get 1/2 to 3/4 of the airplane!:rolleyes:
I have never owned a Duke, only flew a short trip in one, it's small inside and used a lot of runway. But, it is a SEXY looking bird!:D
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You can't have everything! :D
 
LDJones said:
We're bringing in a guy that specializes in Duke transition training. He'll put me through a five day intensive course with about 10 hrs in the plane. That's supposed to happen once the deal is finalized. The current owner/pilot will also fly co-pilot for the first 10 hrs or so until I'm completely comfortable with it...especially in ice. He's well versed in its ice carrying capabilities. Flying in the upper Midwest, that's pretty important.
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I found that whenever I went to look for ice with a CFI, I'd never get any, so I ended up learning the hard way. You may find similar. Just be conservative and test the waters slowly and you'll be fine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I found that whenever I went to look for ice with a CFI, I'd never get any, so I ended up learning the hard way. You may find similar. Just be conservative and test the waters slowly and you'll be fine.
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I hear you. I may want to pick your brain about your experiences since this is only the second FIKI-capable a/c that I will be spending time in. Plenty of ice encounters trying to avoid it. Still plan to avoid it as much as possible.
 
Don't forget to send us pictures...because we really want to know...
 
LDJones said:
I hear you. I may want to pick your brain about your experiences since this is only the second FIKI-capable a/c that I will be spending time in. Plenty of ice encounters trying to avoid it. Still plan to avoid it as much as possible.
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Feel free to anytime. You know where to find me. ;)
 
Duke flight

I put a couple of hours on the Duke yesterday. We needed to test the pressurization system so made a little x-c flight from KFCM to KRWF, climbing to 15,000' on the way out. Quite the amazing traveling machines.

Quick synopsis: Fire up the pre-oilers to lube the engine before start. Prime the fire-breathing dragons and fire them up. After a thorough warm up and preflight tests, line up, bring them to 2000 RPM, confirm everything is in the green and release the brakes. Smoothly power up to 41" and add just a bit of back pressure to get the weight off the nose (that big sloping nose is a huge down force otherwise) and let her fly off.

At take-off power (41"/2900 RPM) those TIO-541s are SCREAMING!! It's almost scary how powerful they sound. At 1,000' feet bring props back to 2750 (in case you ever have to meet one of the neighbors!) and leave them there. Throttles to 36" and keep TIT under 850 deg. She climbs like a homesick angel.

Before long you're in the teens and cruising along in comfort pushing 200 kts. To start down with 242MF you can keep the throttles up, pop the spoilers and be coming down at 1500'/min. Or throttle back to 25"/2500 and you're set for the pattern. Gear and approach flaps can come out at 174 kts to help you slow down if needed.

Downwind at 25 squared, approach flaps and gear out, doing around 130 kts. GUMPS, Prop sync and yaw damper off, lights on. Turn base, slowing to 120-110. On final slowing to 100. Runway made, full flaps ease power out, round out, kiss the mains on, lower the nose and let it be your brake. Roll out and never have to even touch the (very expensive) brakes!

I may have mis-remembered a number or two, but those are pretty close.
 

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I have to say that is one good looking airplane! :DI like the winglets!:D
 
Re: Duke flight

LDJones said:
I put a couple of hours on the Duke yesterday. We needed to test the pressurization system so made a little x-c flight from KFCM to KRWF, climbing to 15,000' on the way out. Quite the amazing traveling machines.

Quick synopsis: Fire up the pre-oilers to lube the engine before start. Prime the fire-breathing dragons and fire them up. After a thorough warm up and preflight tests, line up, bring them to 2000 RPM, confirm everything is in the green and release the brakes. Smoothly power up to 41" and add just a bit of back pressure to get the weight off the nose (that big sloping nose is a huge down force otherwise) and let her fly off.

At take-off power (41"/2900 RPM) those TIO-541s are SCREAMING!! It's almost scary how powerful they sound. At 1,000' feet bring props back to 2750 (in case you ever have to meet one of the neighbors!) and leave them there. Throttles to 36" and keep TIT under 850 deg. She climbs like a homesick angel.

Before long you're in the teens and cruising along in comfort pushing 200 kts. To start down with 242MF you can keep the throttles up, pop the spoilers and be coming down at 1500'/min. Or throttle back to 25"/2500 and you're set for the pattern. Gear and approach flaps can come out at 174 kts to help you slow down if needed.

Downwind at 25 squared, approach flaps and gear out, doing around 130 kts. GUMPS, Prop sync and yaw damper off, lights on. Turn base, slowing to 120-110. On final slowing to 100. Runway made, full flaps ease power out, round out, kiss the mains on, lower the nose and let it be your brake. Roll out and never have to even touch the (very expensive) brakes!

I may have mis-remembered a number or two, but those are pretty close.
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What's that Prince song... sexy mf. Nice write up, awesome aircraft. I would say that is exactly why someone becomes a CFI.
 
Alex: You too can have a Duke of your own for $60,000. Just check Controller. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Alex: You too can have a Duke of your own for $60,000. Just check Controller. ;)
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They are cheap. Still, all I could afford to do with it is sit in the pilot's seat making engine sounds and show all my friends the pictures.

Its like wanting to date a supermodel, you have to go in knowing they've broken richer men than you.
 
Alexb2000 said:
They are cheap. Still, all I could afford to do with it is sit in the pilot's seat making engine sounds and show all my friends the pictures.
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It only burns 2.5x as much fuel as your T206H. ;)

Its like wanting to date a supermodel, you have to go in knowing they've broken richer men than you.
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"No matter how good looking she is, someone, somewhere is tired of putting up with her ****."
 
Re: Duke flight

Alexb2000 said:
What's that Prince song... sexy mf. Nice write up, awesome aircraft. I would say that is exactly why someone becomes a CFI.
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Her nickname is "MoFo"! And, yes, it is definitely a perk of having the CFI that I do appreciate....in addition to the joy of helping people realize a dream of flying.
 
Re: Duke flight

LDJones said:
Her nickname is "MoFo"! And, yes, it is definitely a perk of having the CFI that I do appreciate....in addition to the joy of helping people realize a dream of flying.
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Are you flying this for someone else? I looked at Flightaware and it was last flown IFR in September 2010!:eek::eek: Sounds like a hangar queen.:D
 
Re: Duke flight

N747JB said:
Are you flying this for someone else? I looked at Flightaware and it was last flown IFR in September 2010!:eek::eek: Sounds like a hangar queen.:D
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It may have been blocked. It flies regularly. It's owned by a respected Duke mechanic that's taken pretty good care of her. I think the only mod not on it is the addition of intercoolers. I flew one with that mod earlier this week.
 
Re: Duke flight

LDJones said:
It may have been blocked. It flies regularly. It's owned by a respected Duke mechanic that's taken pretty good care of her. I think the only mod not on it is the addition of intercoolers. I flew one with that mod earlier this week.
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I was just curious, with traveling planes Flightaware is a good way to see if one is flying regularly. :D
 
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