Any benefit for SAR when filing IFR and going VFR?

[Kenny Phillips]

If you cancel IFR, the most likely assumption we would make is that you went direct VFR unless there's something like an airspace obstacle. A site like Flight Aware is one tool that can be used if you're being tracked. But the VFR part without tracking makes it more difficult.

Honestly, if you want the best advice, if you're going to crash, turn your cell phone on (because you DID turn it off when you took off, right ). Triangulating a cell phone signal will get a team to within about 20 ft of your location.

I'm thinking that ADS-B will also give them an idea. Simply "triangulating" (the old fashioned way, not the GPS way) won't quite get you that close, but a smoking hole should be easy to find.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

but a smoking hole should be easy to find.

You would think. Occasionally one goes missing that is never found.

 

[flyingron]

What country do you live in?

The US. That's how it works here.

 

[John Collins]

Same is true in the USA. The difference is in response time and search area. And the fact that many VFR pilots don't bother with a flight plan.

SAR alerting is quite different in the US than in Canada. In the US, FSS does not alert unless you file a VFR flight plan and activate said flight plan. In Canada, if you file a flight plan, it is assumed you have activated your flight plan at the filed departure time. In the US, if you never take the flight, no problem, no one is looking for you. In Canada, there is an implied activation at the filed departure time, so you better get in touch with FIC if you got delayed or decide not to go. In the US, if you just file a VFR flight plan, but don't activate the flight plan, FSS will not generate an alert. If you file IFR, but depart VFR, no one at FSS will notice if you go missing. There are also instances if you depart VFR without a filed VFR flight plan and ATC is unable to offer the FF service at any point on your route, again no one in the FAA will initiate a search. So if you want someone to come looking for you, you need to file a VFR flight plan and activate it in the US or someone on the ground needs to know of your intentions.

 

[airdale]

The US. That's how it works here.

Sorry, no. A fuel range circle can cover several states. Totally useless, totally impossible to cover. We might look at fuel range once we have an idea of the route of the flight to see if there is possibility of fuel exhaustion, but that is about it. There are lots of other more useful types of information; see post #28.

 

[David Megginson]

SAR alerting is quite different in the US than in Canada. In the US, FSS does not alert unless you file a VFR flight plan and activate said flight plan. In Canada, if you file a flight plan, it is assumed you have activated your flight plan at the filed departure time. In the US, if you never take the flight, no problem, no one is looking for you. In Canada, there is an implied activation at the filed departure time, so you better get in touch with FIC if you got delayed or decide not to go. In the US, if you just file a VFR flight plan, but don't activate the flight plan, FSS will not generate an alert. If you file IFR, but depart VFR, no one at FSS will notice if you go missing. There are also instances if you depart VFR without a filed VFR flight plan and ATC is unable to offer the FF service at any point on your route, again no one in the FAA will initiate a search. So if you want someone to come looking for you, you need to file a VFR flight plan and activate it in the US or someone on the ground needs to know of your intentions.

Yes, that's exactly it. If you file a flight plan (VFR or IFR) in Canada, it opens automatically at your planned departure time.

I narrowly avoided getting into trouble the other way, about 15 years ago, when I flew home to Ottawa from KTEB VFR but forgot to activate my flight plan. Since 9/11, it's been required to be on a flight plan to cross the border in either direction, but since I had flight following the whole way, I mustn't have triggered any border-security alarms.

When I landed, Ottawa Ground called me up and said they were unable to close my cross-border flight plan because they couldn't find it. They were kind enough to chalk it up to technical problems, and I was careful not to make that mistake again.

 

[airdale]

... a smoking hole should be easy to find.

Yes, you would think. An airplane that goes down in an area of tall pine forest will only be found if it damaged a bunch of the trees on the way in. If the trees near the impact point look normal, he may never be found. Then there is the matter of ending up in a lake, where there is no smoke and only a very, very temporary hole.

 

[woodchucker]

In my AO, rescuers could find you simply by driving to the area being circled by the news helicopters.

Also, why not get FF? I would get FF to taxi to the self-serve if they would let me.

Why would you worry about someone coming to look for you hours later when you could be radar-identified and talking to ATC in real time?

I use FF almost always when on a XC, but there are areas without radar coverage and they will set you free, so having backup search options is still crucial.

 

[asicer]

In Canada, if you file a flight plan, it is assumed you have activated your flight plan at the filed departure time.

Ah, that part I did not know. I thought @David Megginson was only talking about the filing and not the activation.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Reminds me of this:

View attachment 94430

Talk about different outcomes based on decisions... I would have put her on the bucket.

 

[Palmpilot]

Talk about different outcomes based on decisions... I would have put her on the bucket.

Not my type, but I can see why some guys would want to put her on a pedestal!

 

[David Megginson]

Ah, that part I did not know. I thought @David Megginson was only talking about the filing and not the activation.

We have pretty-decent cell coverage in towns or cities with airports these days, but when the system was designed, a lot of pilots had no way to open a flight plan at smaller or more-remote airports, so auto-opening at the planned departure time made a lot of sense. That would still apply to, say, floatplanes taking off from remote lakes, where there's very likely to be no cell coverage.

 

[asicer]

We have pretty-decent cell coverage in towns or cities with airports these days, but when the system was designed, a lot of pilots had no way to open a flight plan at smaller or more-remote airports, so auto-opening at the planned departure time made a lot of sense. That would still apply to, say, floatplanes taking off from remote lakes, where there's very likely to be no cell coverage.

In the USA, they expect you to activate/open a VFR flight plan in the air with FSS over the COM radio but they expect you to close/cancel it on the ground. FSS radio coverage is pretty good in the air. But like Canada, a lot of landing sites have neither cell coverage or FSS radio coverage on the ground. Maybe that might be one reason not to file a VFR flight plan?

 

[4CornerFlyer]

No reason you can’t close your vfr flight plan over the radio while airborne with landing assured if you have any reason to doubt the availability of communication on the ground.
Jon

 

[asicer]

No reason you can’t close your vfr flight plan over the radio while airborne with landing assured if you have any reason to doubt the availability of communication on the ground.

I tried that once and was told to contact them on the ground.

 

[4CornerFlyer]

I tried that once and was told to contact them on the ground.

That doesn't make much sense. Your VFR flight plan is closed whenever you say it is, no matter where you are.
Jon

 

[mondtster]

I tried that once and was told to contact them on the ground.

Ive closed many of them in the air. There was likely some circumstance that triggered that response.

 

[Hang 4]

I tried that once and was told to contact them on the ground.

Ive closed many of them in the air. There was likely some circumstance that triggered that response.

Since FSS receives VFR plans, could it have been an issue of talking to ATC, who as I understand it can't close a VFR plan, vs FSS?

 

[asicer]

That doesn't make much sense. Your VFR flight plan is closed whenever you say it is, no matter where you are.

That's what I thought at the time as well.

Ive closed many of them in the air. There was likely some circumstance that triggered that response.

It's only happened to me once. Only thing I can think of was that I was landing at an airport in a well populated area (wanted to close early in case I forgot after I landed).

Since FSS receives VFR plans, could it have been an issue of talking to ATC, who as I understand it can't close a VFR plan, vs FSS?

Nope. Closing via FSS is something that was well covered during primary training.