Another student pilot wanders into DC airspace.

wsuffa

wsuffa

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Bill S.
Sigh.

WASHINGTON - A student pilot who wandered into Washington's restricted airspace has been forced to land in Gaithersburg, Md.

Secret Service spokesman Darrin Blackford says the plane was identified around 2:15 p.m. Tuesday and landed about 25 minutes later in Maryland. He says the flight originated in Pennsylvania, although he did not know the exact location.
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Link
 
Mistakes happen, especially with student pilots. I got lost more than once when I was learning. Its the idiot rules that are the real problem, in my thoughts.
 
They may be idiot rules, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be followed (unless it causes undue risk to personal safety, of course).

Countdown until student ops are blocked east of Appalachians.... 3..... 2..... 1.....
 
... I got lost more than once when I was learning...
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And I'm sure you were taught what to do in those circumstances. Certainly, when I was a student, it was the "5 Cs: climb, conserve, communicate, confess, comply". He would have gotten out of trouble by that third C.

For him to be flying anywhere near this area, he must have also taken the faasafety.gov course, which should have also informed him to monitor 121.5, which would have also prevented this incursion. His CFI should have instructed him in this as well.
Its the idiot rules that are the real problem, in my thoughts.
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It's fairly difficult to violate the SFRA without also violating the Class Bravo. Pilots have to be able to navigate and follow the rules of airspace, not all of which are stupid.

Students make mistakes, but properly trained students are provided with the tools to dig themselves out of one.
-harry
 
You know this is completely bizarre, and I don't know if it's true or not, but CNN is reporting that this student was a member of the same Smoketown, PA flying club, and flying the same tail-numbered Cessna 150, as the one that brought us Troy Martin's tour of DC in '05 (and the subsequent flight school, line of clothing, and airport metropolis):
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/25/dc.airspace.alert/index.html
-harry
 
mantakos said:
You know this is completely bizarre, and I don't know if it's true or not, but CNN is reporting that this student was a member of the same Smoketown, PA flying club, and flying the same tail-numbered Cessna 150, as the one that brought us Troy Martin's tour of DC in '05 (and the subsequent flight school, line of clothing, and airport metropolis):
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/25/dc.airspace.alert/index.html
-harry
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Threadlock in 3...2...1...

Oh wait, Greebo's not MC anymore :D
 
Ok, here is the deal. I was at the airport when the fighter jets brought him in and he was then interoggated by the agents who do so...

He took off from Smoketown, PA. He was supposed to do a cross country flight to Delarware. From what I understand, his route was supposed to keep him OUTSIDE of the 60NM ring from DCA that requires you to have completed the online course for the SFRA.

On the return leg, the sutdents GPS failed. It was very hazy here yesterday and the student got lost as he tried to dead reckon his way back to Smoketown. He went terribly far off couse and then was intercepted.

There you have it. Thats what happened according to what I understood from the airport manager here.
 
CNN.com said:
FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said law enforcement officers and the U.S. Secret Service interviewed the pilot and determined that he was on his first cross-country solo flight and had gotten lost in the clouds.
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If true, that CFI needs to be hung by his nuts and never allowed to teach again.

How do you approve a flight plan with iffy weather towards D.C. for a student pilot?
 
Yep, Smoketown again. There is a thread about it on the Red Board.
 
SkyHog said:
If true, that CFI needs to be hung by his nuts and never allowed to teach again.

How do you approve a flight plan with iffy weather towards D.C. for a student pilot?
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you believe just because CNN said it?
 
Good grief.

I flew into Smoketown a couple of weeks ago. It's a nice quiet strip with cheap, self-serve fuel.

I leaned to fly at LNS, though. I wasn't swayed by the argument that "Learning at Smoketown is easier 'cause you don't have to talk to tower..."

Why would I want "easier" if I have to learn how to do something?:sosp:
 
USA Today also said the student was on his first solo XC. Since Smoketown to Delaware doesn't go that close to the SFRA, this student had to be WAY off course (like on the wrong side of the Chesapeake Bay) and didn't realize it. If the report of what happened is accurate (lost GPS, then got totally lost), I smell a 709 ride for any instructors whose signatures are in that student's logbook approving either solo XC or that particular flight's planning.
 
he was on his first cross-country solo flight and had gotten lost in the clouds.
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:dunno: Did he encounter clouds? On my first long cross-country flight, I encountered a solid bank of clouds in front of me and LANDED at the nearest airport.

What would you tell a student to do?
 
Just proves that it is an outstanding idea to keep up with your position on a fail-safe system (read that chart) when flying in unfamiliar areas. Too much reliance on his GPS.
 
Don't hang the CFI, IMHO, he wasn't PIC. Student screw'd up, it's his arse. GPS quit, did the radio also? Total meltdown cause he couldn't follow the compass? :dunno: The student must learn some on his own, and to take the first solo near DC? :loco:

Spank his butt, if he does it again...castration.(no need for any more to be wonder'n around in 18yrs.)
 
Newspeople usually get these things violently wrong. Unforecast haze can build up easily in this part of the country. However, if he has simply held a course this should have been avoided. He was supposed to be clear of the SRFA, he should have been well clear of the red zone. I agree either his training was insufficient or he bungled it big time.

Dr. Bruce has a cool way to use a GPS for a training flight. He puts in with charged batteries ready-to-go in a sealed envelope. Student uses it they get to repeat the ride. A GPS should not be used in a training flight for the private.
 
steingar said:
Mistakes happen, especially with student pilots. I got lost more than once when I was learning. Its the idiot rules that are the real problem, in my thoughts.
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And the idiot over-reaction.

Nobody sent jets or black helicopters after you when you goofed.
 
steingar said:
Dr. Bruce has a cool way to use a GPS for a training flight. He puts in with charged batteries ready-to-go in a sealed envelope. Student uses it they get to repeat the ride. A GPS should not be used in a training flight for the private.
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I tried that idea but couldn't get the tape wrapped around the rails the 430 was mounted on...:rolleyes2:
 
Ron Levy said:
Since Smoketown to Delaware doesn't go that close to the SFRA, this student had to be WAY off course (like on the wrong side of the Chesapeake Bay) and didn't realize it.
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If indeed the plan was from Smoketown to Delaware, that seems to me to be a reasonable XC for a student. Some big easily recognisable landmarks, Susquehanna River on the right, Delaware River on left and keeps you a ways away from any restricted airspace.

Becoming "directionally challenged" then some panic?? Possible. Still hard to second guess since we weren't there.

Gary
 
Gary said:
If indeed the plan was from Smoketown to Delaware, that seems to me to be a reasonable XC for a student. Some big easily recognisable landmarks, Susquehanna River on the right, Delaware River on left and keeps you a ways away from any restricted airspace.

Becoming "directionally challenged" then some panic?? Possible. Still hard to second guess since we weren't there.

Gary
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My first solo XC was LNS to OXB -- a bit further than DE.

NO GPS and lots of terrain association..."There's the bay..."
 
dmccormack said:
My first solo XC was LNS to OXB -- a bit further than DE.

NO GPS and lots of terrain association..."There's the bay..."
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My first solo XC was to the same exact place of my dual XC. Same plan so I had already gotten used to the route. If I was a CFI I would follow that model of doing XCs. Now my long XC for private was to a bunch of places I had never been to before so that was an eye opener, but I had gotten confidence from doing that previous solo XC.
 
smigaldi said:
My first solo XC was to the same exact place of my dual XC. Same plan so I had already gotten used to the route. If I was a CFI I would follow that model of doing XCs. Now my long XC for private was to a bunch of places I had never been to before so that was an eye opener, but I had gotten confidence from doing that previous solo XC.
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Sorta depends on the student. :dunno:

Some need to be gradually exposed to XC with practice runs prior to solo. Other can't wait and are ready and able.
 
My first XC was over cornfields. Still made it. I can't blame a student pilot for getting lost on a cross country. It's happened. Getting that far off track before calling for help is a little less excusable.
 
CJones said:
They may be idiot rules, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be followed.
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Maybe not in this particular case, but in general, idiot rules are not rules I follow. I'm more concerned with doing the right and the safest thing and I'm not concerned with arbitrary rules.

That said, he was a student. I can easily see myself making that same mistake, so I can't blame him for what happened. I can't really blame the CFI, either, as he wasn't in the plane....
 
Now that I think about it I'm *sure* I purposely didn't buy the GPS until after I passed the private checkride...and had made a bunch of long student solo XCs to multiple states (Didn't have to have the plane back. It was mine.)

I wonder how I did that?

To this day I still mostly follow VORs and have those in the GPS flight plan.
 
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mikea said:
Now that I think about it I'm *sure* I purposely didn't buy the GPS until after I passed the private checkride.

I wonder how I did that?
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Me neither. I just got lost a couple times. Then again, when I went to get one I got the best available at the time.
 
mikea said:
Now that I think about it I'm *sure* I purposely didn't buy the GPS until after I passed the private checkride.

I wonder how I did that?
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I didn't buy a gps until after I owned an airplane. But the several of the ones I rented did have them in it. But the 172RG and 182RG that I rented did not and I never got lost. Being able to nav with ALL of the tools in the aircraft is important. If he had learned to use a GPS as part of his primary training that is fine, but it does not negate the requirement to still use a map/compass, VOR, NDB, read the town name on the water tower, etc.
 
I know a hot-rod pilot (active here, too), flies high-zoot hardware, all the toys, and when in VMC he always has a sectional on his lap, tracking progress. This is something I admit I'd sort-of stopped doing lately. Good reminder, you're one glitch away from no GPS.

Poor VFR flight planning, or poor instruction, or both, to get that far off on a dead-reckoning flight.
 
SCCutler said:
I know a hot-rod pilot (active here, too), flies high-zoot hardware, all the toys, and when in VMC he always has a sectional on his lap, tracking progress. This is something I admit I'd sort-of stopped doing lately. Good reminder, you're one glitch away from no GPS.
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Flying up to OSH last month, I did the old 'draw a line on a sectional and follow it' for the first time since maybe my Private checkride. It was a hoot for both me and my non-pilot father-in-law. It made the time pass as well, as we were both checking Iowa/Wisconsin small towns off the map as we went. Good practice, as well.

My only regret is that I didn't take a plotter and E6B to do time/distance calculations along the way.
 
Charts? We don't need no stinkin charts! Actually, for my runs to 6Y9 and back, I'm luck to have a green book with me, and no I don't need the GPS. Then again, pretty hard to get lost around here.
 
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