Another influencer CFI kills student

flyingron

flyingron

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Death by Time Builder

Commentary: A fatal flight in Kentucky last week—involving a CFI using Snapchat to demean a young student pilot—was entirely preventable.
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Makes you think fondly of the old salt who does instructing with the leather flying jacket leaning against his Cub. We get people wanting to learn to fly in six weeks on some other groups. Money and instant licenses and ratings aren't the way to go.
 
Already a thread...

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PA 28 Down in Kentucky, Fatalities

Absolutely you can tell a CFI to go pound sand. Who’s paying the CFI? While that's true, most PPL students don't usually have the knowledge base to know when to do that. I know that during my training, there were a bunch of days where I showed up and said "guess we aren't flying today because...
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skyking3286 said:
Makes you think fondly of the old salt who does instructing with the leather flying jacket leaning against his Cub. We get people wanting to learn to fly in six weeks on some other groups. Money and instant licenses and ratings aren't the way to go.
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I have seen this with the 300-hour CFI graduates. A while back I flew with a CFI who I would not have signed off to solo. How does this happen?
 
skyking3286 said:
Makes you think fondly of the old salt who does instructing with the leather flying jacket leaning against his Cub
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My instructor was a crusty old curmudgeonly bastid in his late 60s who had been flying small aircraft all his life. He was also retired ATC, so he knew flying from both sides of the microphone.

Getting time in with him was sometimes like herding cats, but the education was worth his idiosyncrasies.
 
My instructor was a retired Vietnam, F4 jock. Christ was he ahhhh, direct and clear, but outside of the cockpit or debrief he never harsh. He left nothing to the imagination when you screwed up. When the man praised you, it felt like god had smiled on you. In public the worse h ever did was not speak of the flight around others. That was a bad day/flight. I lived to hear him say, “well, I didn’t pray that flight .” I owe that crusty buzzard my life. Rest in peace Woody. Col. USMC Retired.
 
Every generally accepted definitions of an "influencer" I've seen all come down to the same concept: someone who is actively engaged in some niche of social media and is recognized by their audience as having enough knowledge, authority, etc, to influence their decisions. Those decisions might be personal, political, financial, purchasing,...

I strongly doubt this putz even qualified for the term.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The opposite of an outfluencer.
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Joepilotmsp said:
It wasn’t that bad! The plane is still reusable.
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About midway through my training, I remember hearing my instructor say this as we taxied back to the GA ramp. It was funny then but impactful because it was the perspective I needed. Now this is my goal for every flight.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Every generally accepted definitions of an "influencer" I've seen all come down to the same concept: someone who is actively engaged in some niche of social media and is recognized by their audience as having enough knowledge, authority, etc, to influence their decisions. Those decisions might be personal, political, financial, purchasing,...

I strongly doubt this putz even qualified for the term.
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Depends on the size of his audience, I guess.
 
a good influencer uses above average editing and lighting skills to get really stupid people to buy into what they're saying. a great influencer 'may' know what they're talking about but no guarantees.


also, like and subscribe!!
 
Well, it's also a term used informally in a mocking/derogatory manner, in counter-culture circles within SM. I do it all the time.

Essentially mocking the narcissistic inflection that prompts many people to partake in spending time publishing personal-centering videos in the first place. Put a different way, a lack of impulse control to not share every bit of personal experience, from the banal to the deeply personal, with video.

Sure, it's a bit of a throw the baby out with the bathwater perspective as far as aspersions go, but I only bring it up to highlight that some of the people derided as influencers are not even explicitly going for the title. It's just a catch-all for "look at me!" clout-chasing, regardless of the scale.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Put a different way, a lack of impulse control to not share every bit of personal experience, from the banal to the deeply personal, with video.
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I think you just accidentally described not only influencers, but nearly every podcaster* I've heard.
People use both channels to ramble endlessly about the most vapid, inane shi* imaginable. You cant help but get the feeling the verbal vomit they're spewing up is some form of narcissistic therapy.

*there are some exceptions, but they are exceedingly rare these days.
 
It pays to be selective in partaking of social media, that's for sure. There are some real gems, though. For example, people deride Facebook these days, but a few of the aviation groups there are outstanding.
 
Palmpilot said:
It pays to be selective in partaking of social media, that's for sure. There are some real gems, though. For example, people deride Facebook these days, but a few of the aviation groups there are outstanding.
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Which ones?
 
Joepilotmsp said:
My instructor was a retired Vietnam, F4 jock. Christ was he ahhhh, direct and clear, but outside of the cockpit or debrief he never harsh. He left nothing to the imagination when you screwed up. When the man praised you, it felt like god had smiled on you. In public the worse h ever did was not speak of the flight around others. That was a bad day/flight. I lived to hear him say, “well, I didn’t pray that flight .” I owe that crusty buzzard my life. Rest in peace Woody. Col. USMC Retired.
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Before I did my check ride I had a few different instructors before being assigned to Lee Ragsdale, the chief instructor at the flight school. He took me out for an evaluation and at the end of had a list of about 10 areas he wanted to work on. He asked how I felt about that and while I was disappointed, I told him that what I really wanted was to be a good pilot, so If I needed some more work that was OK by me. His reply was unexpected. He told me that I already was a good pilot, but if we do this additional air work I would be much better. That was one of the nicest things he could have said to me. Over the next few months he worked me pretty hard, and I learned. Thank you Lee.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
Before I did my check ride I had a few different instructors before being assigned to Lee Ragsdale, the chief instructor at the flight school. He took me out for an evaluation and at the end of had a list of about 10 areas he wanted to work on. He asked how I felt about that and while I was disappointed, I told him that what I really wanted was to be a good pilot, so If I needed some more work that was OK by me. His reply was unexpected. He told me that I already was a good pilot, but if we do this additional air work I would be much better. That was one of the nicest things he could have said to me. Over the next few months he worked me pretty hard, and I learned. Thank you Lee.
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What a great thing to say.
 
I am about twice that CFIs age, and he was rail roading the student pilot, If I were checking safety things on an airplane and some 22 yo hot shot CFI was fiddle ****ing with his social media and calling me names...I would have told him to get wrecked and left.
 
midcap said:
I am about twice that CFIs age, and he was rail roading the student pilot, If I were checking safety things on an airplane and some 22 yo hot shot CFI was fiddle ****ing with his social media and calling me names...I would have told him to get wrecked and left.
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My first CFI almost 27 years ago was a young instructor and acted like he just arrived from Top Gun, then went on to say that flying isn't for everyone etc.. and mocked my beginner-level questions. I disappeared for 2 years after that first intro flight. As a CFI myself, I cringe every time I run into such people, though he was not nearly as bad as this idiot. The important lesson here is that your negative reactions can stay with the other person for decades. I don't remember many things from that long ago, but I do remember that CFI.
 
I think there's more to this one than just the bad person who was the CFI. (Phrased with intent.) It sounds like it was a school, and as such someone should have been monitoring this guy, and monitoring choices of what weather is appropriate to fly in. Maybe they didn't know the CFI was a nut, maybe he ignored their weather protocols without their knowledge, but I doubt it. My guess would be that they knew he was a problem, but were willing to take the risk because they were short of CFI's. Again, just a guess.

As to influencers? I assume most people that I don't know who are talking are wrong about 80% of the time. If they're under 30, that goes up. No idea why anyone listens to people that age except for the comedy effect. Oh, or unless you're in HR and are using social media content to weed out the nuts. That happens, and I love that it does.
 
I am by far the oldest CFI where I work. All the others are in their 20s, except for the chief pilot who is mid 50s, but he doesn't take primary students very often.

Our four young CFIs are smart, personable, enthusiastic, and busy. I also think sometimes they are going up with students in marginal conditions because they want the hours. It's a case of "they don't know what they don't know." Teaching judgment is the hardest thing, and sometimes I fear they haven't had enough time to develop it.

Two of the four came up through 141 schools, and they then trained the other two here at our Part 61 school. I think you can see the problem. Very inexperienced instructors are training other new instructors. It's an industry problem.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Our four young CFIs are smart, personable, enthusiastic, and busy. I also think sometimes they are going up with students in marginal conditions because they want the hours. It's a case of "they don't know what they don't know." Teaching judgment is the hardest thing, and sometimes I fear they haven't had enough time to develop it.
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Some of my flying friends are known to head out, VFR, at 300 AGL (fixed wing) below an overcast, just to fly to a meal, or will cut through corners of clouds at higher altitudes. Their rationale is if you wait for “perfect” weather you’ll never get anywhere, ADS-B will show other aircraft so it’s okay to violate cloud clearance minimums, and XM/ADS-B weather keeps them clear of thunderstorms.

What they have in common is two things: Age - they’re not kids. All are in their 70s. And none are CFIs. One has a commercial, the rest are private. The ATPs in our circle don’t do that stuff.
 
I suppose every "age" has its issues.

I have recently heard a story of an FO (post training , waiting for IOE) plugged into the right seat of a sim (captain ride); he was texting during the session. Young man apparely replied to the sim captian, "this is how we communicate, boomer" and no longer works for company.

another about a similar: young FO jumpseating in the cockpit. Talking on the cell after pushback. Captain tells him to get off teh phone. He does not. Captian signalled ground crew to push him back to the gate: Young FO dismissed from company.
 
ateamer said:
Some of my flying friends are known to head out, VFR, at 300 AGL (fixed wing) below an overcast, just to fly to a meal, or will cut through corners of clouds at higher altitudes. Their rationale is if you wait for “perfect” weather you’ll never get anywhere, ADS-B will show other aircraft so it’s okay to violate cloud clearance minimums, and XM/ADS-B weather keeps them clear of thunderstorms.

What they have in common is two things: Age - they’re not kids. All are in their 70s. And none are CFIs. One has a commercial, the rest are private. The ATPs in our circle don’t do that stuff.
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We have a local guy, late 70s, who does that sort of thing. I don't think he has ADSB.
 
bbchien said:
I suppose every "age" has its issues.

I have recently heard a story of an FO (post training , waiting for IOE) plugged into the right seat of a sim (captain ride); he was texting during the session. Young man apparely replied to the sim captian, "this is how we communicate, boomer" and no longer works for company.

another about a similar: young FO jumpseating in the cockpit. Talking on the cell after pushback. Captain tells him to get off teh phone. He does not. Captian signalled ground crew to push him back to the gate: Young FO dismissed from company.
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The issues in those examples are anti-authority, up to and including regulatory violation. Phones are just the tool used to demonstrate anti-authority.

Old attitude, new tools.
 
Back in the 50's there was a guy in our area that flew night checks (the paper kind), I think it was. He would take off, set the autopilot and then an alarm clock, and go to sleep. Clock goes off when it's time to land. Don't think he bothered with flight plans, VFR or IFR. And this was before transponders came out, so I don't know if he was ever caught.
 
Piperonca said:
Back in the 50's there was a guy in our area that flew night checks (the paper kind), I think it was. He would take off, set the autopilot and then an alarm clock, and go to sleep. Clock goes off when it's time to land. Don't think he bothered with flight plans, VFR or IFR. And this was before transponders came out, so I don't know if he was ever caught.
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Sounds 10pct truth like we do at the bar, but I like it. I would always finish my brief with the co-rocket in the buff with a deadpan: "and last, don't let me catch you sleeping when I wake up..." :biggrin:

Funny 95ish pct story. There I was somewhere east of Midway, enroute to tanker #2 during my co-pilot days, stabilize the aircraft in pre-contact and look over to the left to find the AC's nugget resting on the yoke, dead asleep. I almost got the fuel myself just to fight the boredom of circumstances at the time, but being the boy scout I was back then, I promptly whacked him behind the head to get him to wake up and take the fuel. He immediately took the airplane and finished the challenge and response items as though he had been awake the whole time. Good times, don't miss it one bit.
 
I fell asleep several times flying a Huey in formations. I wasn’t the only one either. It typically was a 15 or 20 ship gaggle and we had been flying combat assaults in Vietnam all day long since daybreak. Might have been the second or third day of doing that, too. Everybody was dog tired. I would have my hands on the controls, my eyes would close, in some kind of microsleep, the aircraft would veer typically to the left —enough to rattle my vestibular organs, and then I would wake up and recover it. You could see others in the formation doing the same thing. 100% true.

One time I was so tired I took off and got about 10 klicks (km) out into the AO and thought something wasn’t quite right. Then I realized I had not strapped in.

I’ll stop there for the evening but there are plenty more like that.
 
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