Another F-35 lost, 1/24

Kinda reminds me of the old Cutlass ramp strike…without the fire ball.

Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
 
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Velocity173 said:
Kinda reminds me of the old Cutlass ramp strike…without the fire ball.

Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
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All true. On the other hand I do appreciate knowing how they broke a very expensive airplane that was bought with my money, and my kids’ and grandkids’.
 
Velocity173 said:
Kinda reminds me of the old Cutlass ramp strike…without the fire ball.

Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
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I’m going to guess the person who leaked this isn’t going to like the attention they get. Almost like jumping out of an airplane to film it crashing.
 
Velocity173 said:
Kinda reminds me of the old Cutlass ramp strike…without the fire ball.

Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
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I suspect that the guilty party can be identified, as the video came from the ship's camera system. One would think the user that transmitted the file can be easily determined, since a US Navy ship must have a secure data system.
 
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Aren't there Navy instructions/standards wrt accident investigations? I would expect someone to get in a whole heap of doo-doo for violating those instructions/standards.

At least, I hope someone gets keelhauled (and on that carrier...)
 
3393RP said:
I suspect that the guilty party can be identified, since the video came from the ship's camera system. One would think the user that transmitted the file can be easily determined, since a US Navy ship must have a secure data system.
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I agree that this will be the case. Plus there are at least several distinct voices you can hear as they are taping the PLAT replay.
 
Bob Noel said:
Aren't there Navy instructions/standards wrt accident investigations? I would expect someone to get in a whole heap of doo-doo for violating those instructions/standards.

At least, I hope someone gets keelhauled (and on that carrier...)
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The problem is, it’s hard to hold everyone surrounding an accident to those policies. In the Army Aviation, if we had an accident, the CoC made it quite clear that any information, including footage of the accident, has now become confidential. It must be turned into the accident investigation team and they’ll decide if it becomes public. No calls to family, friends and definitely no media. For the most part the system works well.

Give you an example of how information gets leaked though. In Germany my Brigade had an Apache crash while on a training exercise. It killed one of the pilots. Well, instead of a lockdown of all information regarding the crash, a few of the pilots called home to their wives to tell them the name of the pilot who died. So now, the rumor mill wives spread that information and the wife of the deceased finds out by accident. One of the wives called to say she was sorry to hear her husband had died. Well she wasn’t even informed yet and it caught her completely by surprise. That’s not the proper way to find out your husband has died. After that incident, no cell phones on exercise. I’m sure that’s been changed though. People can’t live without their precious smart phones.
 
Appears to be in some random shop on the ship rather than in, for example, a ready room. So I'm going to guess whoever leaked this was not an aviator, and may not have been familiar with the rules around this sort of thing. With that having been said, I guarantee the ship went into internet/email/phone lockdown within seconds of this happening, and I also guarantee that before they turned everything back on, the ship's CO addressed the crew to inform them of their responsibilities. It also appears that this is a recording of a recording (it looks to be playing in media player), which would lead me to believe that they did it after the fact. Nothing good will come of this for them, for sure. I also don't think it will be too hard for them to pinpoint exactly who it was, or at least get close enough to scare someone into talking. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes I guess.
 
Velocity173 said:
Give you an example of how information gets leaked though. In Germany my Brigade had an Apache crash while on a training exercise. It killed one of the pilots. Well, instead of a lockdown of all information regarding the crash, a few of the pilots called home to their wives to tell them the name of the pilot who died. So now, the rumor mill wives spread that information and the wife of the deceased finds out by accident. One of the wives called to say she was sorry to hear her husband had died. Well she wasn’t even informed yet and it caught her completely by surprise. That’s not the proper way to find out your husband has died. After that incident, no cell phones on exercise. I’m sure that’s been changed though. People can’t live without their precious smart phones.
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This sounds nearly identical to a case study we listened to when I was going through CACO school as a JO (for those who don't speak Navy, CACO = Casualty Assistance Calls Officer, i.e. a person designated to be the guy/gal in dress uniform at your door to tell you that your loved one was killed). It was an Oceana based A-6 that was on a night low level training hop. They plowed into the hills of WV or TN or something, killing both. Similar thing happened....all the wives were getting calls from their husbands to say they were ok, except two wives who didn't. So they knew through process of elimination, prior to the official notification.
 
Velocity173 said:
The problem is, it’s hard to hold everyone surrounding an accident to those policies. In the Army Aviation, if we had an accident, the CoC made it quite clear that any information, including footage of the accident, has now become confidential. It must be turned into the accident investigation team and they’ll decide if it becomes public. No calls to family, friends and definitely no media. For the most part the system works well.

Give you an example of how information gets leaked though. In Germany my Brigade had an Apache crash while on a training exercise. It killed one of the pilots. Well, instead of a lockdown of all information regarding the crash, a few of the pilots called home to their wives to tell them the name of the pilot who died. So now, the rumor mill wives spread that information and the wife of the deceased finds out by accident. One of the wives called to say she was sorry to hear her husband had died. Well she wasn’t even informed yet and it caught her completely by surprise. That’s not the proper way to find out your husband has died. After that incident, no cell phones on exercise. I’m sure that’s been changed though. People can’t live without their precious smart phones.
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Happens in the civilian world too. People can't resist posting on social media. We've had people post photos and videos of accidents and fires we have been responding too and actually tagging the person or families involved. Can you imagine finding out your child died when you are tagged in a photo of the fire department trying to extricate their body out of the car, posted by some passerby? Its sickeningly happened.
 
Maybe this accident will end the A team B team concept that has crept into Naval Aviation. There was a time when all pilots were expected to be A team. B teamers were removed. The training records of the pilot will get a lot of scrutiny.
 
catmandu said:
That was beyond a hook slap, plat camera loses sight of the gear. Just sayin'.
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Yeah, maybe Jeff is speaking semantics, but in the tower cam video, you can see the mains get sheared off by the round-down. Not a splitting the jet in half "ramp strike" like some others perhaps, but as you say, that was no hook slap. The jet was engulfed in flames as it spun down the LA, so I'd guess either the gear punched through the wings, or there was rear fuselage impact with the round-down as well. Kind of hard to tell, but it appears just aft of the wings in the centerline cam.
 
The story and video are now making media. Per the story on Fox news:

"We are aware that there has been an unauthorized release of video footage from flight deck cameras onboard USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) of the F-35C Lightning II crash that occurred Jan. 24, in the South China Sea," Naval Air Forces Pacific spokesman Cmdr. Zachary Harrell told Stars and Stripes. "There is an ongoing investigation into both the crash and the unauthorized release of the shipboard video footage."

Someone's going to be in trouble.
 
Velocity173 said:
Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
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I have to admit to feeling both curious and appalled at seeing the plat cam video on the internet.

That said, I don’t think it is so much an indictment against professionalism in military aviation as it is a reflection of some of the general attitudes of the younger enlisted folks we have recruited.

The actual platcam video itself wasn’t ‘released’ or leaked by those responsible for controlling it.

It was sailor(s) sitting in a workspace onboard watching and recording the CCTV on their f’ng phone and then uploading it to the internet after the fact. The ‘why is he yelling fire?’ comment made my blood boil.

My bet is those sailors have likely already been identified and gone to Mast at this point.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The story and video are now making media. Per the story on Fox news:

"We are aware that there has been an unauthorized release of video footage from flight deck cameras onboard USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) of the F-35C Lightning II crash that occurred Jan. 24, in the South China Sea," Naval Air Forces Pacific spokesman Cmdr. Zachary Harrell told Stars and Stripes. "There is an ongoing investigation into both the crash and the unauthorized release of the shipboard video footage."

Someone's going to be in trouble.
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Yeah, I've seen a USAF sergeant lose a stripe and his assignment for not doing a certain part of his job; it was quick and merciless. And widely announced.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It was sailor(s) sitting in a workspace onboard watching and recording the CCTV on their f’ng phone and then uploading it to the internet after the fact. The ‘why is he yelling fire?’ comment made my blood boil.

My bet is those sailors have likely already been identified and gone to Mast at this point.
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If you look close, it appears that they are filming a recorded file, off NIPR. You can see it's playing from windows media player, with the pause button and playtime tracker bar at the bottom. So my guess is that they somehow accessed whatever CATCC/Air Ops had captured for the mishap investigation, and then pulled it up on their computer. If I were a betting man, I'd guess it was someone in.......air ops, or maybe a friend of someone there. And I agree, those folks have to have been caught by now.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I have to admit to feeling both curious and appalled at seeing the plat cam video on the internet.

That said, I don’t think it is so much an indictment against professionalism in military aviation as it is a reflection of some of the general attitudes of the younger enlisted folks we have recruited.

The actual platcam video itself wasn’t ‘released’ or leaked by those responsible for controlling it.

It was sailor(s) sitting in a workspace onboard watching and recording the CCTV on their f’ng phone and then uploading it to the internet after the fact. The ‘why is he yelling fire?’ comment made my blood boil.

My bet is those sailors have likely already been identified and gone to Mast at this point.
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I agree and I too was curious to see the PLAT footage. I knew it would get out eventually. Just think that should be released once the investigation is complete and NAVAIR believes that footage to be appropriate for public viewing.

This isn’t that big of a deal to me since it’s not a fatality and most likely doesn’t show anything classified. What concerns me though is the lack of discretion and how quickly unauthorized information these days is released. Almost impossible to keep things under wraps.
 
Velocity173 said:
Almost impossible to keep things under wraps.
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No personal devices with cameras and internet access...period. I can't believe the military allows soldiers and sailors to have such unrestricted access to the outside world on deployments. Back in the day people had to write letters, and those could be opened and reviewed to make sure nothing sensitive leaked out about where and what you were doing. Today you hear stories of people talking to their loved ones at home on the phone when all of sudden shots and explosions start going off. OPSEC sure has changed over the generations.
 
midwestpa24 said:
No personal devices with cameras and internet access...period. I can't believe the military allows soldiers and sailors to have such unrestricted access to the outside world on deployments.
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This would certainly curtail some of the issues. However in this day and age, that proposal would go down about as well as a fart in church, I'd think. The irony is that USS Ship, wherever she may be, is far less "connected" than virtually any other type of deployment, among any service component, other than I suppose grunts out in the field of course. No cell phone service out at sea, and the internet is miserably slow, TV broadcast (if you even get one in a deployed location) is constantly cutting in/out of reception. So not at all the experience folks have going to overseas land bases (cough*USAF*cough) where you can Skype the wife before going to bed, or make a phone call, or get on social media/etc.
 
35 AoA said:
… The irony is that USS Ship, wherever she may be, is far less "connected" than virtually any other type of deployment, among any service component, other than I suppose grunts out in the field of course....
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Given my limited experiences on the boat (offshore Africa), I’ve generally had better access to cell service in the field.

I might have had to rely on Roshan, but at least I could get a signal, even in remote parts of Afghanistan.
 
35 AoA said:
This would certainly curtail some of the issues. However in this day and age, that proposal would go down about as well as a fart in church, I'd think. The irony is that USS Ship, wherever she may be, is far less "connected" than virtually any other type of deployment, among any service component, other than I suppose grunts out in the field of course. No cell phone service out at sea, and the internet is miserably slow, TV broadcast (if you even get one in a deployed location) is constantly cutting in/out of reception. So not at all the experience folks have going to overseas land bases (cough*USAF*cough) where you can Skype the wife before going to bed, or make a phone call, or get on social media/etc.
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We Skyped in the Army on deployment as well. ;) Also had Pizza Hut!
 
35 AoA said:
So not at all the experience folks have going to overseas land bases (cough*USAF*cough) where you can Skype the wife before going to bed
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Hey man, it ain't my fault Uncle Sammy chose to bench me all the way over to PACAF, to navel-gaze up and down the Marianas on 17-hour round robins in a glorified B-17, to go back to the hotel at 3am and watch you tip-o-spear types get the turkey shoot medals over on cEnTcOM. You know how expensive the cuisine gets in Tumon Bay on 3.50 per diem?! :D

To paraphrase POTUS 45: The Outrigger at Tumon Bay was my Vietnam..... :rofl:
:cheerswine:
 
hindsight2020 said:
Hey man, it ain't my fault Uncle Sammy chose to bench me all the way over to PACAF, to navel-gaze up and down the Marianas on 17-hour round robins in a glorified B-17, to go back to the hotel at 3am and watch you tip-o-spear types get the turkey shoot medals over on cEnTcOM. You know how expensive the cuisine gets in Tumon Bay on 3.50 per diem?! :D

To paraphrase POTUS 45: The Outrigger at Tumon Bay was my Vietnam..... :rofl:
:cheerswine:
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Haha touche sir, touche. I remember getting gas from an all female tanker crew one afternoon.....to the point where we had one wingman pull up WAAAAAY acute (like forward of wings) to verify. Plenty of the typical fallic/sex jokes were made on boom freq as we all "plug" the basket one by one (with a female boom who was talking dirty about it enough to make a bunch of sky sailors blush). Eventually the conversation turned to her asking what we were doing the next day, Sunday. Buddy of mine responded (hoping to make our lives not sound so terribly depressing) that we had Sunday brunch in the boat wardroom. She says, "oh thats cool, so I just got a new bikini and I'm gonna go have mojitos by the pool [I think they were coming from the 'Deid]....too bad you can't come join." She then offers to send pics if my bud, who is at that point in the basket, tells her his email. He does and would you know it, she sure did. Sometimes you guys shared your good time, if only just a little, with us sorry peasants :)
 
Velocity173 said:
Also amazes me how fast these vids go public. The days of discretion and professionalism are gone in military aviation. No more securing footage for accident investigation purposes and then releasing publicly at the appropriate time. It’s all about “I’ve got a secret and I want to be the first one to release it to get attention.”
Click to expand...
 
Jeeze I don't know, it's a different world now. You turn off a person's internet connection they just might go off the deep end. Take a gander at a gen-z at any given moment and chances are pretty high they're gonna be staring at a phone.
 
35 AoA said:
Haha touche sir, touche. I remember getting gas from an all female tanker crew one afternoon.....to the point where we had one wingman pull up WAAAAAY acute (like forward of wings) to verify. Plenty of the typical fallic/sex jokes were made on boom freq as we all "plug" the basket one by one (with a female boom who was talking dirty about it enough to make a bunch of sky sailors blush). Eventually the conversation turned to her asking what we were doing the next day, Sunday. Buddy of mine responded (hoping to make our lives not sound so terribly depressing) that we had Sunday brunch in the boat wardroom. She says, "oh thats cool, so I just got a new bikini and I'm gonna go have mojitos by the pool [I think they were coming from the 'Deid]....too bad you can't come join." She then offers to send pics if my bud, who is at that point in the basket, tells her his email. He does and would you know it, she sure did. Sometimes you guys shared your good time, if only just a little, with us sorry peasants :)
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Trust me, I've been by the pool at the Deid many times. Every time I look over there all I can think of is this:

itsatrap.jpg
 
Silvaire said:
Jeeze I don't know, it's a different world now. You turn off a person's internet connection they just might go off the deep end. Take a gander at a gen-z at any given moment and chances are pretty high they're gonna be staring at a phone.
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as an aside, there was a recent study (well, it was a few years ago now) where two groups of students took a test. No phone usage during the test (silenced). One group had their phones with them. The other group had the phones stored in another room. This second group did measurably worse than the first group. Separation anxiety.
 
Silvaire said:
Jeeze I don't know, it's a different world now. You turn off a person's internet connection they just might go off the deep end. Take a gander at a gen-z at any given moment and chances are pretty high they're gonna be staring at a phone.
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In fairness, nobody will ever take a gander at Gen-Z to catch them because every other generation is also staring at a phone 24/7.
 
Those dang youngsters nowadays, driving on the boardwalk in their riding machines and scaring the horses!
 
They should also be charged with criminal stupidity. How in the actual hell would anyone be so stupid as to think they could post cell phone video FROM A NAVY SHIP AT SEA and nobody would figure out who did it?

Sigh. I guess someone has to barely squeak past the lower limit on the ASVAB.
 
DaleB said:
They should also be charged with criminal stupidity. How in the actual hell would anyone be so stupid as to think they could post cell phone video FROM A NAVY SHIP AT SEA and nobody would figure out who did it?

Sigh. I guess someone has to barely squeak past the lower limit on the ASVAB.
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I’m not sure how much news you’re reading these days but, uh… that’s not even like the hundredth most stupid thing I’ve heard this week.

The bar is low, my friend. Very low.
 
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