An idiot

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Unregistered

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You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
 
Unregistered said:
You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
Click to expand...

If no ATC facility gave you a phone number, and you filed a NASA report, you are clean.
 
How do you know the tower was open? If it was before 0700, you are in the clear.
 
Unregistered said:
You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
Click to expand...


Do you have a mode S transponder?
Did you have any conversation on the radio once it was "fixed" ?
at this point you will know in 10-30 days from the FSDO if there was a report on you..if you filed the NASA that all you can do for now...STFU and hope it blows by. Usually if no one says anything you are good
 
MarkZ said:
If no ATC facility gave you a phone number, and you filed a NASA report, you are clean.
Click to expand...

Not completely if you have a mode S they might get your tail # regardless of squawk....
With the MOR system now in place. A computer can rat your ass out on some things sending you a letter a few months later. I know more than a few good guys who go a letter from ORD way after some BS (exceeding 250<10k) accusation .
 
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I was flying with a student and suddenly lost comm. Finally started inbound and began watching for light gun, then noticed my student had flipped the wrong switch when trying to turn off the marker beacon audio. Now that's the FIRST thing I check during comm "outages"! Bet you will, too!

Hope all works out. Keep us apprised.
 
LDJones said:
I was flying with a student and suddenly lost comm. Finally started inbound and began watching for light gun, then noticed my student had flipped the wrong switch when trying to turn off the marker beacon audio. Now that's the FIRST thing I check during comm "outages"! Bet you will, too!

Hope all works out. Keep us apprised.
Click to expand...

Good point, Loren. Check everything before making an assumption. I've never made any such mistakes, right? :wink2:
 
taters said:
Not completely if you have a mode S they might get your tail # regardless of squawk....
With the MOR system now in place. A computer can rat your ass out on some things sending you a letter a few months later. I know more than a few good guys who go a letter from ORD way after some BS (exceeding 250<10k) accusation .
Click to expand...

Was a brasher act ("possible pilot deviation, advise you contact...") read to these guys?
 
spiderweb said:
Good point, Loren. Check everything before making an assumption. I've never made any such mistakes, right? :wink2:
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We all have or will at some point. Happened to me again on Monday jumping in a plane that had just returned from a CFI checkride...but this time I caught it in about five seconds!
 
If the tower was open, they don't need mode S. All they needed was a pair of binoculars (and perhaps not even then if you were well known on the field). Tower knew my N number cold when I was based at IAD. They just don't see too many Navions, let alone dark blue ones.
 
Unregistered said:
You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
Click to expand...

The question is did the tower even notice you take off? I would expect the tower to try radio communication and then the light gun if they were open.
 
WE all do stupid s_it at times. The key is to keep it at a minimum and make 99% of our decisions on the ground where they are less likely to pass unreviewed into the air where it's gonna kill us.

This incident qualifies for neither.
You filed the NASA, and as long as the title isn't incriminating (TITLE is public), like, "departed airport w/o a clearance" but is more like, "messed up communication at departure" you will be okay.
 
Unregistered said:
You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
Click to expand...

Something doesn't fit. If the scheduled opening of the tower is 0700 and the time was 0650 then it was indeed an untowered field and you have no problem. But if the tower was not in operation who recorded the ATIS?
 
Well that is the heart of the idiocy, isn't it, Steven?

You HEAR ATIS, and it's not the "PWK will resume operations at 1300Z" message. But you don't communicate, yet you depart.....
 
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bbchien said:
Well that is the heart of the idiocy, isn't it, Steven?

You HEAR ATIS, and it's not the "PWK will resume operations at 1300Z" message. But you don't communicate, yet you depart.....
Click to expand...

That IS truly the idiocy, Steven. It actually opened at 0600, which I should have known, since I do this several times per year here. I did hear ATIS A, which told me that the tower was open. Unfortunately, after waiting for the engines to warm up, do preflight ops check, get everything setup for launch, and then trying and failing to raise them on the radio, my brain short circuited and, when I looked at my watch, determined that they were not open yet, so all other inconsistent information went right out the window and I treated it like I always do when I depart in Good VMC before the tower opens. I departed and tried to get my clearance in the air, which is when I realized my error.

And, yes, they know me very well, they heard me on the radio attempting to raise them, they heard me self announce my departure, and they did file the form, at least that is what they told me when I called them from my destination.
 
Had something like that happen to me long ago. Not quite what you did, uncontrolled airport. Now, if no one hears me, I try another freq. Do I hear ATIS, can anyone hear me?
I actually called tower on my cell once to find the controller had plugged in his head phone jacks incorrectly! He was frantically waiving, but I couldn't hear him. No one else on the filed then, I got ATIS and actually was able to call approach and have them respond. Kept each of us out of trouble (g).

Best,

Dave
 
Unregistered said:
You would think a commercial pilot who flies for a living occasionally would not make stupid complacent mistakes, but apparently not.

I was at my own home airport, leaving early in the morning for an IFR flight with passengers. After I obtained the ATIS (which should have given me clue to begin with), I did me preflight checks and configuration and switched radios to call ground to get my clearance. No response. Called tower. No response. Switched to the radio I know was just working. No response on either frequency. Checked my watch, oh, hey it is 10 minutes before 0700, they are still closed.

From then on, I treated the airport as an uncontrolled airport, announcing intentions and taking off to get my clearance airborne. Except, then I find out I am unable to raise approach and find that I inadvertently bumped the audio panel switch. I corrected the situation and find that, indeed, the tower is open and I just took off without a clearance.

So now I will have to deal with a Pilot Deviation. Sent in an ASRS form. I assume a runway incursion of this type is serious business.

Any FAA personnel have any information to help me?
Click to expand...
I meet that description and make stupid, complacent mistakes from time to time.
 
Call the tower and see if they filed a PD on you. A lot of the PDs that don't deal with a computer snitch can be swept under the rug. If its been filed then their QC guy probably has reviewed it already. If so, most likely he's going to send it to the FSDO.
 
bbchien said:
WE all do stupid s_it at times.
Click to expand...

That's the truth. I try to keep it in perspective with the phrase "we aren't on fire and no one is in the hospital." It seems some of the younger folk calm down a bit when they hear it...
 
It can also depend on if you're flying Part 91 or 135. They're not as nice to the guys flying 135. 135 pilots are geniuses, have all the regs memorized and are completely situationaly aware. They never make mistakes...yea right.
 
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It's possible that your "runway incursion" REQUIRED them to file a PD on you. Did you talk to them and find out?

Unless you have a history with the FSDO, I'd expect them to investigate, talk to you, and choose the quickest, least punitive method to close the case.
 
LDJones said:
I was flying with a student and suddenly lost comm. Finally started inbound and began watching for light gun, then noticed my student had flipped the wrong switch when trying to turn off the marker beacon audio. Now that's the FIRST thing I check during comm "outages"! Bet you will, too!

Hope all works out. Keep us apprised.
Click to expand...

I had a similar thing happen to me on the ground. This was after Become a Pilot Day at the Air and Space Museum. I had flown into Dulles that morning, and the radio gave me a little bit of trouble (a lot of static every once in a while), but it was generally fine.

When I went to call clearance delivery on departure, nobody could hear me. I frantically unplugged and replugged my headset, flipped all the radio switches I could, etc etc, got pretty desperate (to the point where I started looking for tower's phone number) until I found that my intercom switch had been flipped off. D'oh! One of the many kids I had in the plane throughout the day decided it looked like a fun switch to flip. They liked other ones too, but I wasn't in the habit of checking the intercom before departure. After all, who ever turns it off??
 
Don't feel too bad. I snuck my Dad's 206 out one time to impress a date, and the tower cleared me to land on 17 and I made a perfect landing.

Brimming with pride, I was smiling at my date when tower said "you landed the wrong direction."

I apologized, and that was the fastest I ever hangared a plane and got out of there.
 
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TMetzinger said:
It's possible that your "runway incursion" REQUIRED them to file a PD on you. Did you talk to them and find out?

Unless you have a history with the FSDO, I'd expect them to investigate, talk to you, and choose the quickest, least punitive method to close the case.
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I'm not sure how required it would be if there is otherwise no evidence of it nor conflict with other traffic. I suspect that most controllers would prefer to use their discretion under such circumstances.

As others have suggested, it seems a bit foolish to go digging for a possible violation.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
I'm not sure how required it would be if there is otherwise no evidence of it nor conflict with other traffic. I suspect that most controllers would prefer to use their discretion under such circumstances.

As others have suggested, it seems a bit foolish to go digging for a possible violation.
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The controllers might prefer to use their discretion but it also might be out of their hands in this instance. However, as Tim implies, the inspector is the one who has discretion and just because a PD is filed doesn't necessarily mean it's going to go further than a talk.

And everybody at all levels makes mistakes...
 
If there is a silver lining...you tried calling, you did not get a reply:yes: and then self announced...

I hope it was VFR...
 
Everskyward said:
The controllers might prefer to use their discretion but it also might be out of their hands in this instance. However, as Tim implies, the inspector is the one who has discretion and just because a PD is filed doesn't necessarily mean it's going to go further than a talk.

And everybody at all levels makes mistakes...
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The controllers have no discretion on runway incursion, now for the past several years....
 
Further elaboration. As part of the FAA war on runway incursions, I believe that a policy was promulgated that removed much of the controller discretion on reporting incursions.

Edit: And Bruce confirms I was right.
 
TMetzinger said:
Further elaboration. As part of the FAA war on runway incursions, I believe that a policy was promulgated that removed much of the controller discretion on reporting incursions.

Edit: And Bruce confirms I was right.
Click to expand...

I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure if there wasn't a traffic conflict.
 
Sounds like you're 'gonna get a talking to' lol. I doubt it gets worse than that. If you maintain the same attitude with whomever at the FAA you end up speaking with, you and they will leave the encounter satisfied. The key elements here are you realize you ****ed up, you admit you ****ed up, and you analyzed why you ****ed up making the odds of a repeat extremely low. That's what the FAA wants to ensure.
 
If a violation occurs, we are required to inform the pilot of a possible deviation. We have specific phraseology that we have to use. Then we report the incident to management who files an MOR. It is possible though not likely that you would get a talking to even though ATC didn't tell you to call. Even if you get a talking to, it won't go anywhere. Just don't be defensive or a jerk in the unlikely event you get a phone call.

Unless a loss of life or loss of separation resulted from a faux pas, we have a lot more discretion than you might think regarding PD's....
 
Yeah, but not runway incursions.
Hey, he's filed his ASRS and will have the receipt. The talking-to-will go well.
 
Listen,

All of us in this room have made mistakes experienced or not so don't beat yourself up. You filed the ASRS report to help others learn by this mistake (and give yourself some possible protection).

You declared your progress on the tower frequency which (if I was the controller) would make clear you thought the tower was closed. From what you stated as far as you know your operation did not conflict with other traffic so this MIGHT be a non-event.

If something was filed you should know by mail in about 2 weeks (the time it usually takes to come full circle). Of course, with the possible backlog due to the political silliness that may take longer. After notification, you will have a chance to speak with an FAA investigator an give your side of the story. He/she will take all the data and make a recommendation to the next level. He/she might even tell you what he will be recommending on the spot.

For your part, just keep calm and have all the facts straight. If you haven't done it, I would write down everything now before you start forgetting things ;)

Anyway, Best of luck and let us know how things turn out.

Kevin
 
TMetzinger said:
It's possible that your "runway incursion" REQUIRED them to file a PD on you. Did you talk to them and find out?

Unless you have a history with the FSDO, I'd expect them to investigate, talk to you, and choose the quickest, least punitive method to close the case.
Click to expand...

Well, I can out myself now. This is pretty much what happened. Actually, the person with whom I took my last part 135 checkride with is the one who ran the investigation. He explained everything as it happened, and was really fair in everything he did and said. No separation issues, but a definite violation of FAR's. ATC has no choice in this kind of deviation, but to file the paperwork. They knew who I was, knew there was no real problem, and didn't really want to go through with all of the hassle, but it was out of their hands.

It ended with a punitive letter of reprimand, the least of the EIR type of enforcement actions, sort of a "straighten up and fly right" type of instruction. It'll haunt me for a few years so I need to be squeaky clean, not that I don't try to do that anyway.

Definitely not going to repeat this scenario. DON'T GET COMPLACENT.
 
Still can't believe they filed a PD on you. Most of my friends are controllers and even in today's "big brother" environment, they say that they still have discretion when it comes to reporting PDs. Like Mark said above unless it deals with a separation issue a lot of controllers will look the other way. If it's a computer issue then yes it truly is out of their hands.

I don't think pilots realize how many PDs happen on any given day. When I worked approach we could write someone up on almost a daily basis if we wanted to. If all the PDs were sent to the FSDO like they're suppose to do, they'd never be able to stay on top of the paperwork.
 
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txflyer said:
Don't feel too bad. I snuck my Dad's 206 out one time to impress a date, and the tower cleared me to land on 17 and I made a perfect landing.

Brimming with pride, I was smiling at my date when tower said "you landed the wrong direction."

I apologized, and that was the fastest I ever hangared a plane and got out of there.
Click to expand...
As a teenager I once lied to my mother about where I was taking her car (and was totally caught), but I've never stolen an airplane :yikes::yikes:

To the OP, let us know how this works out. Sounds like the kind of mistake any of us could make.
 
ChrisK said:
As a teenager I once lied to my mother about where I was taking her car (and was totally caught), but I've never stolen an airplane :yikes::yikes:

To the OP, let us know how this works out. Sounds like the kind of mistake any of us could make.
Click to expand...

See post #34 for "the rest of the story."

Glad the repercussions were minimal.
 
LDJones said:
See post #34 for "the rest of the story."

Glad the repercussions were minimal.
Click to expand...
Guess I clicked too soon!

Edit - thank you for posting this and for bravely "coming out". I really do think this is the sort of thing any of us can do, and it helps to get constantly reminded of the possibility.
 
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