An Awkward Situation....Opinions Wanted!

Horus927 said:
Yeah and it's irritating because that's so hackneyed that I look like an idiot trying to explain myself. Oh well, I still stand by what I say because it is was and probably will be true long before and after it was trendy.

No need to look down the nose at me either eh?
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I'm not looking down my nose at you, I could give 2 s-ts about what you look like. I'm just trying to point you away from a large waste of time and effort moving in a direction that is going to put a canyon in the path of your desired track.

Also realize that by getting the ink and the holes, that you are every bit as, actually definition-ally more so, "superficial" of a person for getting them as the lady was for dismissing you for them.

BTW, Whenever I looked like an idiot trying to explain myself, it was because I was an idiot for doing what I was explaining in the first place. It's funny how that always worked out that way.
 
For what it's worth, my experience suggests that the potential situations she was concerned about are quite pausible.

Horus927 said:
The trip ended with being told that my piercings, though removed, were still noticeable, that my hair was too long and it would be too awkward; that there were many WWII vets who would be uncomfortable, and there were a lot of wealthy people attending that may have had to do with airshow funding that might have been offended by my looks etc etc. I felt it was highly degrading.
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You ran into a collection of closed minded jerks.

I was interested to see if there is anything at all in the aviation regulations regarding this issue. Closest I could think of is this:

49 CFR Part 61.153 Airline Transport Pilots Eligibility requirements:
...
(c) Be of good moral character.

​
While I don't think tattoos and body piercings are immoral, nor a sign of an immoral person, I believe the U.S. Air Force takes a dim view of such things (though yours doesn't seem to be of a kind they dislike) ... but I bring up the Air Force because I suspect a bunch of those people end up in positions making hiring decision at airlines. :(

If you are curious, here is the 180 page document that covers Air Force policy on a host of issues, including tattoos and body piercings:
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

On the other hand, I found alleged proof that tattooed airline pilots exist:

http://www.tattoosinflight.com/2008/07/10/proof-of-a-tattooed-airline-pilot/

Though it sounds like he keeps it hidden under a watch.
 
Richard said:
If I may add to that, K, you sound like you are contemplative and you have identified behaviors and appearances which may act to hold you back and you have thought of the corrective actions. So, in that vein, as far as this forum is concerned, why don't you introduce yourself?

All we know is you are a heavily tatted budding pilot of Eygptian descent with aspirations to be a professional pilot who is known as "K".

We're all 'family' here. You can let your hair down.
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Well up till now no asked... I'd probably let me hair down if I felt a bit more welcome and no so scrutinized.

As I'm sure you might understand, the internet is a risky place to release personal information.. So as I get to know everyone here better, you will all get to know me as well. But I'll start with this

My name is Kyrellos, I'm 29 and live in Texas.

And I'm not as heavily tattooed as you might think! only one arm... and of course to complicate things it's the lower part...
 
shenanigans said:
For what it's worth, my experience suggests that the potential situations she was concerned about are quite pausible.
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I don't disagree. But at the same time then they should really only stick to military/police personnel and shouldn't advertise for volunteers
 
Jim Logajan said:
You ran into a collection of closed minded jerks.

I was interested to see if there is anything at all in the aviation regulations regarding this issue. Closest I could think of is this:

49 CFR Part 61.153 Airline Transport Pilots Eligibility requirements:
...
(c) Be of good moral character.

​
While I don't think tattoos and body piercings are immoral, nor a sign of an immoral person, I believe the U.S. Air Force takes a dim view of such things (though yours doesn't seem to be of a kind they dislike) ... but I bring up the Air Force because I suspect a bunch of those people end up in positions making hiring decision at airlines. :(

If you are curious, here is the 180 page document that covers Air Force policy on a host of issues, including tattoos and body piercings:
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

On the other hand, I found alleged proof that tattooed airline pilots exist:

http://www.tattoosinflight.com/2008/07/10/proof-of-a-tattooed-airline-pilot/

Though it sounds like he keeps it hidden under a watch.
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Well that was an unexpected response lol. I skimmed some of the Air Force paper and all I can say so far is that the fact that they wrote on it in such detail is evidence that they encountered it. Hell I know guys that went to serve and done crazier things than I. As far as tattooed pilots I've seen plenty and heard of airline captains with body suits under their uniforms... Truth? No idea..
 
I think anyone that knows me can speak to my moral character... Unfortunately that's no one here lol
 
Horus927 said:
Well up till now no asked... I'd probably let me hair down if I felt a bit more welcome and no so scrutinized.

As I'm sure you might understand, the internet is a risky place to release personal information.. So as I get to know everyone here better, you will all get to know me as well. But I'll start with this

My name is Kyrellos, I'm 29 and live in Texas.

And I'm not as heavily tattooed as you might think! only one arm... and of course to complicate things it's the lower part...
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Many of us here have actually met in real life. I've met about 20 persons here. This website truly is populated by persons who have shared life's ups and downs, marriages, divorces, lost loves, homes built, fly-ins, etc.

There is one I have in mind we (the collective forum) have seen go from a budding pilot to CFI to VIP.

I admit it is wise to not divulge personal information on the internet however there is much you can share without telling your whole background. Heck, look at Kimberely. She is new yet already she is like a daughter.
 
Richard said:
Many of us here have actually met in real life. I've met about 20 persons here. This website truly is populated by persons who have shared life's ups and downs, marriages, divorces, lost loves, homes built, fly-ins, etc.

There is one I have in mind we (the collective forum) have seen go from a budding pilot to CFI to VIP.

I admit it is wise to not divulge personal information on the internet however there is much you can share without telling your whole background. Heck, look at Kimberely. She is new yet already she is like a daughter.
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Yeah I've heard. Makes this almost seem more of an exclusive club than a public forum. Think of how it might be from the unsuspecting newbie's shoes!
I think Kimberly has met a few of you already hasn't she? And as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, its easier for a girl..

I'm a friendly guy, I bleed avgas, and just care to talk about airplanes flying or anything related. I only just started making a few friends around school. Forums are hard work to keep up with! I tried once but studying comes first for me. I did meet Kimberley though from that first experience..
 
In fact she's always suggesting I join....talks about y'all all the time too. I suppose I envy her a bit. But I always just figure study now, make friends later...
 
Horus927 said:
Yeah I've heard. Makes this almost seem more of an exclusive club than a public forum. Think of how it might be from the unsuspecting newbie's shoes!
I think Kimberly has met a few of you already hasn't she? And as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, its easier for a girl..

I'm a friendly guy, I bleed avgas, and just care to talk about airplanes flying or anything related. I only just started making a few friends around school. Forums are hard work to keep up with! I tried once but studying comes first for me. I did meet Kimberley though from that first experience..
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I can understand how you could say this seems exclusive. I assure you it's not. All I can say is for you to jump in. Nothing holding you back but you. Honestly, seriously.
 
Richard said:
Many of us here have actually met in real life. I've met about 20 persons here. This website truly is populated by persons who have shared life's ups and downs, marriages, divorces, lost loves, homes built, fly-ins, etc.

There is one I have in mind we (the collective forum) have seen go from a budding pilot to CFI to VIP.

I admit it is wise to not divulge personal information on the internet however there is much you can share without telling your whole background. Heck, look at Kimberely. She is new yet already she is like a daughter.
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Thanks (I think).

I can't believe this but when I fly with Mari this Saturday, that will be 6 POAers I've met with in Cali AFTER the September 2011 6Y9 fly-in which must have had at least 10 or more POAers who I met, maybe 20? That's only 2 months and already so many.... in addition I've talked to (on the phone) or chatted with (on POA Live Chat) at least several dozen more.

This past Saturday, as I was leaving the airport with that pilot friend of mine (husband of a 99) he introduced me to a guy with a hangar. As the guy approached me, he said "hey are you on the red board"? I've only posted there a few times and he recognized me instantly.... small world. He is a lurker not a poster but still that was rather interesting to say the least.

My point is that yes, this is a forum but to me it is FAR FROM anonymous. A lot of people on here I have met in real life, and within the next two years, I'd expect to see my numbers double or triple. It is a lot more meaningful to me to discuss aviation with pilots who I've personally flown with - and one of the coolest parts of the site IMHO.
 
Richard said:
I can understand how you could say this seems exclusive. I assure you it's not. All I can say is for you to jump in. Nothing holding you back but you. Honestly, seriously.
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Well I'd like to think I have jumped in!
 
I wonder if anyone here would even be willing to meet me

EDIT: As I've stated more than once, I'd love for nothing more than to sit and chat about airplanes or see or learn something new..
 
Horus927 said:
In fact she's always suggesting I join....talks about y'all all the time too. I suppose I envy her a bit. But I always just figure study now, make friends later...
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Join what? I think by posting you are already a member of POA and have "joined us". If you mean when I've told you about POA fly-ins, yes, I think you should come but I can understand if none are near you and you don't know anybody. Before I went to Michigan to meet POAers I got to know them for about two months prior via this website. And honestly, it is because of them that I continue to post and offer to "meet" POA pilots who are going to be at / near my airport . . . seems a lot of folks pass through the SF Bay Area every once in a while. It was them who taught me this is a community, and that I should be open to everyone, and that I can learn from other pilots.

You should be able to study and still make friends. They will be worth more than their weight in gold when the **** hits the fan or you have questions about your studies. Many pilots on POA have all the ratings you seek (and then some!) including some who have already posted in this thread you started.
 
Horus927 said:
I wonder if anyone here would even be willing to meet me

EDIT: As I've stated more than once, I'd love for nothing more than to sit and chat about airplanes or see or learn something new..
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Dude, come to California. I know we're far from one another, and so I was forced to go buy a beer at the store when you texted me you passed your checkride so we could fake cheers each other via text. Sorry I'm so far from you and now with your multi and IFR stuff I can't be of much help to you anymore. I am but a mere private pilot. One day one of us will be in the same place at the same time. Really.
 
Join this site. And you did push that airshow too I remember. I still had barely gotten my private then. Long XC for a green pilot. Adventurous, yes. Safe? Maybe, Maybe not.

Not opposed to making friends on here at all. Just noting that I may not be able to keep up with the forum as much as everyone else might
 
Horus927 said:
In fact she's always suggesting I join....talks about y'all all the time too. I suppose I envy her a bit. But I always just figure study now, make friends later...
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PS - Don't envy me. Not only is it not fair comparing me (a girl) to you (a boy) but also remember how much time you are saving. My post count screams "this person must not have a life"..... be glad your numbers are low!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Dude, come to California. I know we're far from one another, and so I was forced to go buy a beer at the store when you texted me you passed your checkride so we could fake cheers each other via text. Sorry I'm so far from you and now with your multi and IFR stuff I can't be of much help to you anymore. I am but a mere private pilot. One day one of us will be in the same place at the same time. Really.
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Lol... It'll happen I'm sure. And it's ok I'm not bummed! I was wondering out loud.. I thought that post might come across wrong...
I'm actually pretty proud of myself, every rating gets easier than the one before. I'm helping out other soon to be privates, keeps me sharp on that material. And there's a few of us at school doing IFR together. Also one guy started his CFI just now so there's another study buddy. I even school HIM sometimes (it's funny). I'll turn up over there sooner than you think. Look for the Geronimo with the bad paint job holding up traffic at SFO lmao..
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
PS - Don't envy me. Not only is it not fair comparing me (a girl) to you (a boy) but also remember how much time you are saving. My post count screams "this person must not have a life"..... be glad your numbers are low!
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Lol your time here pays off.. I'm jealous of some of the adventures you go on. Hell with your networking skills I'd be a more complete player in this pilot world
 
Horus927 said:
Lol your time here pays off.. I'm jealous of some of the adventures you go on. Hell with your networking skills I'd be a more complete player in this pilot world
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Networking skills? You're funny. I think the best advice I can give is just to be open minded. A lot of people on here may look different, talk different, or walk different than you. The ten of them may tell you ten different ways to complete a crosswind takeoff and insist their way is the right way. I cannot teach tolerance and respect though your thread states to me that you would like to be accepted for who you are. If you accept them and let them speak their mind even if you disagree, they will welcome you.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Networking skills? You're funny. I think the best advice I can give is just to be open minded. A lot of people on here may look different, talk different, or walk different than you. The ten of them may tell you ten different ways to complete a crosswind takeoff and insist their way is the right way. I cannot teach tolerance and respect though your thread states to me that you would like to be accepted for who you are. If you accept them and let them speak their mind even if you disagree, they will welcome you.
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Sure! you have more pilot friends than I! I'd like to think I'm a poster child for open minded and acceptance and tolerance. lol
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
PS - Don't envy me. Not only is it not fair comparing me (a girl) to you (a boy) but also remember how much time you are saving. My post count screams "this person must not have a life"..... be glad your numbers are low!
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Kimberly, I just took a look at your post count and join date. You'll catch Scott M in no time at this rate. :D
 
Horus927 said:
I wonder if anyone here would even be willing to meet me

EDIT: As I've stated more than once, I'd love for nothing more than to sit and chat about airplanes or see or learn something new..
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Texas is a big state. I'm willing to bet there is a POA pilot in your area ywilling to meet if you wouldn't be such a scaredy cat.
 
Horus927 said:
Sure! you have more pilot friends than I! I'd like to think I'm a poster child for open minded and acceptance and tolerance. lol
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I think I get it now. You've been posting on Neil's site. Even though you are 29 yrs old you are a brand new pilot and that has set your confidence back several notches. And that 'poster child' bit..well, that's old news. Hell, even Dobie Gillis (you tube it) made fun of that. You're too old for teenage angst but the new pilot thing has left you wondering. Just roll with it.

Best advice a CFI ever gave me; don't be afraid to fly the plane.
 
Richard said:
Texas is a big state. I'm willing to bet there is a POA pilot in your area ywilling to meet if you wouldn't be such a scaredy cat.
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True that! What part? South Central, Central, East, DFW area, Panhandle, Big Bend area, RGV?

Ryan
 
Richard said:
I think I get it now. You've been posting on Neil's site. Even though you are 29 yrs old you are a brand new pilot and that has set your confidence back several notches. And that 'poster child' bit..well, that's old news. Hell, even Dobie Gillis (you tube it) made fun of that. You're too old for teenage angst but the new pilot thing has left you wondering. Just roll with it.

Best advice a CFI ever gave me; don't be afraid to fly the plane.
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That's Studentpilot right? I did post there for a bit up till I soloed. Then I got busy and lost interest in it a bit.
I wouldn't say several notches but being a new pilot does take a bit of getting used to! After breezing through my multi rating though that confidence thing started changing pretty quick.
Definitely past teenagerhood.. What do you mean I am wondering? Just trying to understand your assessment. Not trying to be defensive..

You guys will find out I ask questions about everything. That's how I learn. I can't count the number of times I stump my instructor, have to go find out for myself, then teach him what I learned!
 
Horus927 said:
I wonder if anyone here would even be willing to meet me

EDIT: As I've stated more than once, I'd love for nothing more than to sit and chat about airplanes or see or learn something new..
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Heck yeah, come to Ft Lauderdale and get out of that hell hole TX... I've got several instructor buddies here, there's even a couple reasonable cost planes to rent and the yachtie chicks are all starting to show up for the boat show at the end of the month.
 
Ho hum. Yet another neophyte comes asking a question, and then argues when he doesn't like the answer.

Al least I can add an amusing anecdote (amusing at least to me). I was mentoring an undergraduate, who was planning a relocation to the Pacific Northwest. I mentioned some possible employers given her background, how to prepare a resume, and what to do in an interview. At the end I said she should cover up the tats and loose the nose ring. She said she knew, but was just keeping them in the meantime as her personal rebellion against the Man.

I was the Man. I can't remember ever feeling so horrible. It is a very good thing I neither own nor carry firearms. I doubt I would have survived.
 
Yay for bearded pilots! I'm a ways south of DFW!
And I have an uncle in Ft Lauderdale
 
steingar said:
Ho hum. Yet another neophyte comes asking a question, and then argues when he doesn't like the answer.

Al least I can add an amusing anecdote (amusing at least to me). I was mentoring an undergraduate, who was planning a relocation to the Pacific Northwest. I mentioned some possible employers given her background, how to prepare a resume, and what to do in an interview. At the end I said she should cover up the tats and loose the nose ring. She said she knew, but was just keeping them in the meantime as her personal rebellion against the Man.

I was the Man. I can't remember ever feeling so horrible. It is a very good thing I neither own nor carry firearms. I doubt I would have survived.
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How exactly am I arguing?
 
I got ya. Just making sure you knew where I was! I look forward to it...
 
Now on topic henning is spot on, tats, "goofy" looking ears and a beard don't make you a bad pilot, but will close some doors. One of many reasons I make my living on the greasy side of the cowling.
 
Yeah I never really decided what doors I'm going through in the future. Everyone assumes I'm after airline work. I figure it's really too early in the game for me to decide which way I'll go. I know the training I do now will affect what options are available later so I've keep that in mind as well.
 
Horus927 said:
How exactly am I arguing?
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All posted by you:

Horus927 said:
Sure! you have more pilot friends than I! I'd like to think I'm a poster child for open minded and acceptance and tolerance. lol
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Horus927 said:
I think anyone that knows me can speak to my moral character... Unfortunately that's no one here lol
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Horus927 said:
I don't disagree. But at the same time then they should really only stick to military/police personnel and shouldn't advertise for volunteers
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Horus927 said:
I do. I was only replying to someone's earlier reply of joining the crowd. While I may have tried to fit in here and there, I always come back to the same conclusion of not wishing to be labeled as anything. Everything I chose to do I did because I wanted to, and because I had an interest, not to belong to any group. You'll find that I'm an outsider of any crowd I may seem to belong to. Even the pilot crowd. Because I am such a mix of different bits from different crowds I don't think I fully fit into any of them.
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Sounds like arguing to me. Put another way, if a bunch of people said "loose the piercings and cover the tats" and you said OK, we wouldn't have a 5 page thread.

I honestly don't care. I personally think you'd be better off selling your services to like-minded individuals, where your appearance would be an asset rather than a liability. However, like-minded people in the airplane biz are thin on the ground.
 
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