American Airlines Mechanics Sue Airline

[flyingron]

See if you can find Jack's book. While he was sort of a wart on the side of the c-suite he's pretty frank about the failings all around. Both EA management (Borman) and the Unions were setting the airline up to fail after dereg. It just got further out of control once Lorenzon came in. It was beyond home by the time the receivers got it. The discount start up carriers were eating into even Lorenzo's other carriers (PE, NYA) on Easterns core routes (BOS-NY-DC) and the Florida routes.

I'm watching with amusement the new Eastern. Maybe they're poised to take advantage of having a Miami base to get into the Cuba market if that opens up. Of course, AA and DL are already down there ready to pounce: American already operates a flight from MIA to HAV and there are a few small carriers (Sun Country, Vision, World Atlantic)

 

[Henning]

It was greed that brought down Eastern.

 

[wsuffa]

I think it was deregulation that brought Eastern down. I don't think any major airline's business plan could survive a transition that big without major reorganization.

The actual strike was originally all three unions too; only the IAM never went back. I'm not sure that's why they actually shut the doors though. I get the impression something else happened, but the real story is never what winds up in the business magazines.

Not adjusting to deregulation was only part of it. There were macro economic conditions (including fuel prices). There was labor unrest. And EA's hub in Atlanta and routes to Florida directly competed with Delta (which was far less unionized). And then there was Frank Lorenzo.

Basically, they ran out of money for a number of reasons.

 

[Geico266]

It was greed that brought down Eastern.

Unions or management?

 

[SCCutler]

They were in a sketchy state but to try and lay the blame on unionized mechanics is a real stretch.

No question! Eastern's demise was a team effort.

I think it was deregulation that brought Eastern down. I don't think any major airline's business plan could survive a transition that big without major reorganization.

The actual strike was originally all three unions too; only the IAM never went back. I'm not sure that's why they actually shut the doors though. I get the impression something else happened, but the real story is never what winds up in the business magazines.

Money ran out.

Unions or management?

Yep.

 

[Henning]

Unions or management?

Yes..

 

[kontiki]

Like most large companies there were always things going on at Eastern that didn't make sense based on apparent facts (i believe usually the observers don't have the story straight). We struggled for years to setup Miami - London routes. When we got them, we operated it briefly then sold it to someone. Un- related, another period we were transferring some of our most fuel efficient Airplanes to Continential. This was very unpopular. What was wierd was that they would come in for work prior to the transfer and we'd be doing gear changes to put high time gear on for the transfer. It was like being in the middle of a great decade long schism. At first, the significance of the poison pill announcement made no sense ( high financier that I was) but ultimately the unions held about 25% of the comon stock, then it did. People that didn't even balance their personal check book ran around ranting about high finance like they were experts. It was the worst decade in my carrier. I went through one set of strike countdowns inmanagement and one in the union. Management never stopped lying to the employees the whole time I was there. The last strike was awful too.

 

[N801BH]

Like most large companies there were always things going on at Eastern that didn't make sense based on apparent facts (i believe usually the observers don't have the story straight). We struggled for years to setup Miami - London routes. When we got them, we operated it briefly then sold it to someone. Un- related, another period we were transferring some of our most fuel efficient Airplanes to Continential. This was very unpopular. What was wierd was that they would come in for work prior to the transfer and we'd be doing gear changes to put high time gear on for the transfer. It was like being in the middle of a great decade long schism. At first, the significance of the poison pill announcement made no sense ( high financier that I was) but ultimately the unions held about 25% of the comon stock, then it did. People that didn't even balance their personal check book ran around ranting about high finance like they were experts. It was the worst decade in my carrier. I went through one set of strike countdowns inmanagement and one in the union. Management never stopped lying to the employees the whole time I was there. The last strike was awful too.

This little ( stunt) didn't help Easterns image either...

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-04.pdf

 

[kontiki]

This little ( stunt) didn't help Easterns image either...

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-04.pdf

I met the A&P they finally scapegoated for this. He knew a lot more about the planes than I did; very experienced. After the demise, he beat me out of a job doing actual Government work in Panama.

Powerplant Engineering was never faulted for allowing them to schedule the work on all three engines in the same maintenance event even though there was a history of o-ring problems causing IFSDs leading up to this event.

It's a complex environment.

 

[N801BH]

I met the A&P they finally scapegoated for this. He knew a lot more about the planes than I did; very experienced. After the demise, he beat me out of a job doing actual Government work in Panama.

Powerplant Engineering was never faulted for allowing them to schedule the work on all three engines in the same maintenance event even though there was a history of o-ring problems causing IFSDs leading up to this event.

It's a complex environment.

It didn't help that the mechanics admitted to smoking pot earlier that night and they both tested positive for TCH during the FAA required screening after the event....

Also the union stood behind them and helped them to keep their jobs....

 

[Henning]

It didn't help that the mechanics admitted to smoking pot earlier that night and they both tested positive for TCH during the FAA required screening after the event....

Also the union stood behind them and helped them to keep their jobs....

Dude, you worked in NASCAR, are you telling me that people become incompetent mechanics when they smoke pot? Seriously?

 

[kontiki]

It didn't help that the mechanics admitted to smoking pot earlier that night and they both tested positive for TCH during the FAA required screening after the event....

Also the union stood behind them and helped them to keep their jobs....

I don't recall hearing about anything like that back then. Is it in the report?

 

[kontiki]

I don't rail on unions. They gave us Saturday's. Like most things, it takes an adversarial arrangement to keep both sides in check. Just like toe in on the front end of a car. If the steering tires didn't oppose each other, things would get out of control fast.

 

[N801BH]

I don't recall hearing about anything like that back then. Is it in the report?

I was born and raised in Coral Gables and Miami Shores..... I clearly remember those facts.... The report I linked to might mention it, altho.. Like most other negative stuff on the internet anymore there are numerous ways to " sanitize" past articles so it would not surprise me if the first 7-10 pages of a google search consisted of cleaned up articles.. I remember channel 4 , 7 and 10 having a field day with those THC test results though.....

 

[N801BH]

Dude, you worked in NASCAR, are you telling me that people become incompetent mechanics when they smoke pot? Seriously?

Actually, when I was heavily into that sport drugs would get you thrown out of NASCAR in a New York minute.. They had ZERO tolerance for that stuff.....

Remember Tim Richman..... He was basically banned from even setting foot on any racetrack property....

 

[flyingron]

Actually, when I was heavily into that sport drugs would get you thrown out of NASCAR in a New York minute.. They had ZERO tolerance for that stuff.....

Remember Tim Richman..... He was basically banned from even setting foot on any racetrack property....

Tim Richmond actually. And Richmond was banned for Sudafed and Advil go figure.

A better example would be Jeremy Mayfield who tested positive for meth and then was subsequently arrested for not only possession of drugs but also a treasure trove of stolen equipment for the area near his house (which is just down the road a spell from my place. I've driven past it).

 

[N801BH]

Tim Richmond actually. And Richmond was banned for Sudafed and Advil go figure.

A better example would be Jeremy Mayfield who tested positive for meth and then was subsequently arrested for not only possession of drugs but also a treasure trove of stolen equipment for the area near his house (which is just down the road a spell from my place. I've driven past it).

Tim was blackballed when he tested positive for AIDS, which the entire NASCAR community thought was contracted by using IV drugs,,,, Turned out it was a 50 dollar hooker in Ft Lauderdale who did him in....

You are correct on Jeremy Mayfield......

The most recent one was A.J Almindinger, altho he did clean up his act and is back wheeling cup cars around the track.. He was just driving in the 24 hours of Daytona 3 days ago...

 

[kontiki]

I was born and raised in Coral Gables and Miami Shores..... I clearly remember those facts.... The report I linked to might mention it, altho.. Like most other negative stuff on the internet anymore there are numerous ways to " sanitize" past articles so it would not surprise me if the first 7-10 pages of a google search consisted of cleaned up articles.. I remember channel 4 , 7 and 10 having a field day with those THC test results though.....

I don't know if those are facts. But when I was there working in Management, the Director of QA was in and out of alcohol rehab multiple times between drinking binges. After I went back to my tools, one of the work managers was nicknamed 10-Speed; in and out of rehab for coke or meth. I can remember reporting someone's alcohol issues to the shop steward in the vain hope the union could police itself. It did not.

When you work in a large organization, all that stuff is present. Hopefully its' dealt with more effectively today. In latter jobs as the DoN member on an integrated acquisition team, I have advised the team lead (a vendor) that if he did not effectively address someones alcohol problem, I would go go over his head and see that it was addressed. I took service to the taxpayer and Navy personnel very seriously. It's doesn't make you popular.