Amazon [contract] pilots are grumbling

What does that turn out to be in wages. Work 300 days a year at 4 or 5 hours a day for an income of about $200,000. Sign me up..:rolleyes:
 
Just hire on with UPS then.
 
AKBill said:
What does that turn out to be in wages. Work 300 days a year at 4 or 5 hours a day for an income of about $200,000. Sign me up..:rolleyes:
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Their guarantee is only 62 hours a month, which translates into just over $100k before taxes. In order to make $200k, that is about 120 hours of credit a month, which from what I understand isn't easy to do with Atlas and ATSG.

They are already having issues retaining and hiring pilots, it is only going to get worse.
 
This is standard practice for Amazon, contact out a portion of them business to the lowest bidder, who then does everything they can to keep costs down. To do that, those contractors pay below market wages.

Amazon does this with warehousing and trucking, why would air freight be any different?
 
Friend flys 747s for Atlas. Online FO pay shows about $80K per year. I’d imagine with all the incentives he’s over $100K though. That being said, it appears he’s gone 6 months out of the year. That lifestyle will get old real quick.
 
I get that it's comparatively low but isn't $100k/year still a darn good wage? I would think most people would be thrilled to be making that kind of money.
 
cowman said:
I get that it's comparatively low but isn't $100k/year still a darn good wage? I would think most people would be thrilled to be making that kind of money.
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I make more as a regional captain and some of our FOs make more than a first year Atlas FO. My dad makes more in the left seat of a 737 at Delta than his friend makes in the left seat of a 747 both at the top of the pay scale. 100K isn’t bad but they should be getting a whole lot more.
 
cowman said:
I get that it's comparatively low but isn't $100k/year still a darn good wage? I would think most people would be thrilled to be making that kind of money.
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Yes, statistically for the United States taken as a whole $100k is a great wage.

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Groundpounder said:
They are already having issues retaining and hiring pilots, it is only going to get worse.
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And that's the consequence of their actions. That's how capitalism works. I have no problem with that - they know how they can fix it. BTW, Amazon doesn't treat their ground transportation or warehouse workers very well, either.


I suppose if we became a socialist place this situation would be different.
 
Don’t know about the hourly numbers for ATSG and Atlas, but I know for a fact the numbers for FedEx and UPS are wrong.
 
cowman said:
I get that it's comparatively low but isn't $100k/year still a darn good wage? I would think most people would be thrilled to be making that kind of money.
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IMO it's too low considering the risk and the responsibility. And by risk, I don't just mean safety but how easy it can be to have one mistake cancel your career.
 
After rereading the original post, it states pilot pay. Not sure if this is an average of Captain and F/O pay or what so kinda hard to make a true comparison.
 
wsuffa said:
And that's the consequence of their actions. That's how capitalism works. I have no problem with that - they know how they can fix it. BTW, Amazon doesn't treat their ground transportation or warehouse workers very well, either.


I suppose if we became a socialist place this situation would be different.
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For sure. Doesn't mean that their pilot group shouldn't try to fight for higher wages.
 
Sounds like those pilots there should hit the door with their resumes in hand. If you show up for work and you know the wage then you are saying you are happy with that wage. If it's a terrible wage those pilots should go work elsewhere.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Sounds like those pilots there should hit the door with their resumes in hand. If you show up for work and you know the wage then you are saying you are happy with that wage. If it's a terrible wage those pilots should go work elsewhere.
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I disagree. Would any of us be willing go to work for a company and never expect a raise? I know the Airborne pilots agreed to wage cuts in the past when times were tough. There is no reason that they shouldn’t try to restore their pay now.

The simplistic view of just leave, doesn’t work well for this industry. We live and die by seniority, just the way it is. If you’re 50 years old, kids in college, etc. odds are your best option is to stay and fight.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Sounds like those pilots there should hit the door with their resumes in hand. If you show up for work and you know the wage then you are saying you are happy with that wage. If it's a terrible wage those pilots should go work elsewhere.
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A lot of them are. But don't you think that there should be an effort to improve the QOL of the ones that remain?
 
Groundpounder said:
A lot of them are. But don't you think that there should be an effort to improve the QOL of the ones that remain?
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At what cost? Americans love Amazon and the fact they can have stuff shipped to them free next day and so on. If Amazon wants to keep their prices low and dominate the retail world the most continue to operate the way they are doing it. So my suggestion is to bail out, let Amazon get pilots with less skill and let those more qualified pilots work at a company that makes profit based on quality and not quantity. We all would make fun of burger flippers complaining about not getting $ 15/hr and we would say if you don't like the pay go somewhere that pays better.
 
Busflyer said:
I disagree. Would any of us be willing go to work for a company and never expect a raise? I know the Airborne pilots agreed to wage cuts in the past when times were tough. There is no reason that they shouldn’t try to restore their pay now.

The simplistic view of just leave, doesn’t work well for this industry. We live and die by seniority, just the way it is. If you’re 50 years old, kids in college, etc. odds are your best option is to stay and fight.
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We know the price to pay to be pilots. When you work for a company that contracts to someone that historically isn't the best to their employees what can we expect? I always hear "don't fly at a place based on equipment, go for QOL". Well that's a great arguement and I usually agree, but the other side of that coin is you don't get to complain when someone on the same equipment is making more somewhere else. I wish everyone could get paid millions to be pilots but there not enough money and there's always a pilot that wants a job coming into the industry. When they stop getting resumes, the pay will go up.
 
cowman said:
I get that it's comparatively low but isn't $100k/year still a darn good wage? I would think most people would be thrilled to be making that kind of money.
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No, not really. That’s the starting salary for an engineer in the SF bay area. Seems very low for a 747 pilot.


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NJP_MAN said:
We know the price to pay to be pilots. When you work for a company that contracts to someone that historically isn't the best to their employees what can we expect? I always hear "don't fly at a place based on equipment, go for QOL". Well that's a great arguement and I usually agree, but the other side of that coin is you don't get to complain when someone on the same equipment is making more somewhere else. I wish everyone could get paid millions to be pilots but there not enough money and there's always a pilot that wants a job coming into the industry. When they stop getting resumes, the pay will go up.
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In this instance, if you’re referring to Airborne, then your statement is wrong. Airborne was “historically “ one of the better paying airlines and a place that most pilots were quite happy at. The downward slide started with DHL. Now the place has turned into a miserable place to work.

I wish them all the best at getting their pay back up to where it was plus some.
 
ABX went on a strike a year or two ago at Christmas rush time.

Clip4 said:
After DHL left KILN is 2008, ABX was barely hanging on.
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It's not back to the glory days but Amazon has ILN hopping a bit in the evenings again. Every night at about 1245am I get them coming over the homestead.
 
Busflyer said:
In this instance, if you’re referring to Airborne, then your statement is wrong. Airborne was “historically “ one of the better paying airlines and a place that most pilots were quite happy at. The downward slide started with DHL. Now the place has turned into a miserable place to work.

I wish them all the best at getting their pay back up to where it was plus some.
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Live by the seniority, die by the seniority I suppose. Everyone loves having good seniority until it traps you financially from making a move to another employer. Or so it seems. I don't ever want to be in that situation and fell for those that are in that situation.
 
Aside from the metal being heavy, these are all entry level positions into wide body ACMI flying. 80-100k is pretty in line, or better than first year pay at legacy/majors. I doubt many folks are staying there very long these days, with how FDX and UPS are hiring.
 
jordane93 said:
100K isn’t bad but they should be getting a whole lot more.
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Heck I make more than that, working on underground mining equipment. Of course the days are much longer and it's hard, physical work.

jimhorner said:
No, not really. That’s the starting salary for an engineer in the SF bay area. Seems very low for a 747 pilot.


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Agreed
 
I’ve got stock in UPS—this i why I never fell victim to the whole “ Amazon will wipe out UPS and Fedex”stories. Amazon will cut into profit(possibly)but to actually impact UPS the amount of work Amazon will have to do is overwhelming and not cost effective for them. When these pilots start looking elsewhere, then you better believe UPS will have Amazon right where they want them in the next contract negotiations.

Logistics is a tough industry— Amazon will no doubt learn that even quicker as they try to get bigger in it.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Live by the seniority, die by the seniority I suppose. Everyone loves having good seniority until it traps you financially from making a move to another employer. Or so it seems. I don't ever want to be in that situation and fell for those that are in that situation.
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The option is having a merit based system. Then you have the possibility of being passed over for a promotion due to office politics. I don’t ever want to be in that situation.

There is not a perfect method. They all have pluses and minuses.
 
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