Allowing CFI to fly my plane

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Tony R

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If I wanted to allow my CFI to fly my plane without me tin it, how do I work that out with my insurance company?

Is it something that an insurance company will allow if they are not an owner?
 
I have two partners that were students a few years ago and had their own flight instructor. I just called my agent and added him. I'm not sure if the premium changed at that time, but it was that simple. I believe he filled out a form with his information and flying experience.
 
Tony R said:
If I wanted to allow my CFI to fly my plane without me tin it, how do I work that out with my insurance company?

Is it something that an insurance company will allow if they are not an owner?
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Yes in most cases they will be covered just as long as they have time in your type aircraft.
Best to look at your policy or to call your agent with that question. But in most cases they are covered.
Does your CFI have more hours than you?
I remember instrument training with a couple CFII that I had more hours than them. In that case I would think twice.
Here's what my policy states.
 
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My insurance says that anyone with a commercial or higher license can fly my plane without me if authorized by me.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
My insurance says that anyone with a commercial or higher license can fly my plane without me if authorized by me.
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Really? Mine wants a bit of Comanche hours (250 maybe) and 500 or 750 retract.
 
Look for the "open pilot" clause in your insurance policy. If your cfi doesn't meet the hours, you can add them. Generally if they have more or similar hours to you, there won't be any cost increase. Mine is 25 time in type, 250 retract, 750 total.
 
EdFred said:
Really? Mine wants a bit of Comanche hours (250 maybe) and 500 or 750 retract.
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Private pilot would need time on type, but commercial and higher not. Not that i would someone without complex time fly my plane anyways.
 
I had my CFI named on my insurance policy for a few years. Insurance wanted to know pretty much the same info they wanted from me: Total time, total time in type, time/time in type in the last year, date of last medical, statements that there had been no medical or legal issues, no insurance claims within the last x years, etc. I just called him and got the info and filled in the form. As far as I could tell, whether he was on the policy or not did not affect my premium.

But there's also a provision in the policy that any pilot meeting specified criteria (appropriate certificate and medical, with minimum number of hours in type, I think) is covered, so I didn't really have to have him named on my policy. He only flew it without me 3 or 4 times in the 3 or 4 years I had him listed.
 
As mentioned above, get a policy with an ‘open pilot’ clause that allows any certificated pilot to be covered as long as they meet the requirements of the clause. That is what I have and give the CFI that trained me gratis access to my 182. My first policy had no requirements listed in the clause but the current insurer has some minimal experience requirements.
 
Thank you. My CFI is great, I would be fine with him taking his girlfriend to Martha's Vineyard for lunch.
 
It's been said on here a hundred million times, but once again, an open pilot warrantee does not cover them, it covers you. Your loss will be covered up to the limits of the policy, they will be hung out to dry.

If you want them to have the same coverage as you, add them to the policy as a named insured pilot.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
It's been said on here a hundred million times, but once again, an open pilot warrantee does not cover them, it covers you. Your loss will be covered up to the limits of the policy, they will be hung out to dry.

If you want them to have the same coverage as you, add them to the policy as a named insured pilot.
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Or suggest they carry non-owner coverage.
 
Will your CFI whore out your plane and let students abuse it?
 
I think the term is "additional insured". I added my flight test pilot to my policy. There was no charge for this.
 
If the CFI meets the open pilot warranty, you are covered. It's usually better to have them added as an approved pilot; a plus with a subrogation waiver. And, like any other renter/borrower, they can have their own non-owned coverage.
 
GeorgeC said:
Will your CFI whore out your plane and let students abuse it?
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I was assuming for the CFI's personal use. To be used for instruction would require at least an endorsement (most likely with higher premiums) or an entirely different insurance policy.
 
I let the two A&P/IA at the shop use the cherokee. They are named pilots AND they are not allowed to use it for instruction (just a precaution). The reason - they need to go pick up parts and often fetch another airplane to bring it back to the shop. I'm delighted that the airplane is getting use because I'm not getting a lot of time in it. I thought this year I'd be back to part-time teaching but we've had some scheduling issues and a huge increase in enrollment at the university, so I'm full-time again. Not going to complain about the paycheck (will pay to remodel the upstairs bath and install a new COM in the cherokee) but the time is just overwhelming again.
 
Add a requirement to the terms of use that a 6 pack or greater quantity of beer appears in the hangar following every flight. Good beer (pro tip - if it’s being pitched on commercials during football games, it’s not good beer), preferably cold.

It’s not compensation. It’s just another wondrous magical deed of the hangar fairy.
 
Tony R said:
If I wanted to allow my CFI to fly my plane without me tin it, how do I work that out with my insurance company?

Is it something that an insurance company will allow if they are not an owner?
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If he's planning on instructing in it, the open pilot clause may not apply. You need to check what he plans to do with it and then check with your insurance company. Normally, you can rent your plane to someone for private use if they meet the open pilot clause restrictions and you won't need 100 hr inspections, If the instructor uses your plane for instruction then the 100 hr inspection is a player.
 
Witmo said:
If he's planning on instructing in it, the open pilot clause may not apply.
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The open pilot clause is not the problem. The problem is this type of language (or the equivalent) which is fairly standard in private aircraft policies:

"This insurance does not apply...under any coverage...if the aircraft is being used for or in connection with...flight instruction to anyone other than the pilots listed by name (as approved pilots in the policy)"​
 
Here is another little gotcha I was recently made aware of. If you have a non- owned aircraft policy, and you crash the plane but it isn't pilot error, like due to a mechanical failure, you may not have coverage. In other words, the non-owned underwriter isn't going to pay for the owner's failure to maintain the aircraft, only damage caused by your bone headed pilot skills.

Being a named pilot /insured is really the best way to go, with a supplental non-owner policy to cover deductibles. Renting a plane from an fbo is another story, as they have commercial coverage.
 
ateamer said:
Add a requirement to the terms of use that a 6 pack or greater quantity of beer appears in the hangar following every flight. Good beer (pro tip - if it’s being pitched on commercials during football games, it’s not good beer), preferably cold.

It’s not compensation. It’s just another wondrous magical deed of the hangar fairy.
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Wisdom, right there!
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Being a named pilot /insured is really the best way to go, with a supplental non-owner policy to cover deductibles. Renting a plane from an fbo is another story, as they have commercial coverage.
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Not all of them do. It’s been a few years, but when I first moved to Florida and was in between planes, I was going to rent 172s from a large flight school/FBO near us. Got an aircraft checkout, and then when I asked to get on the schedule to rent it for a personal flight there was an issue. They tell me that I need insurance. No problem, I said I’d get non-owned coverage. The manager said that was insufficient - I needed full coverage for the hull value, the same as if I owned the aircraft. They recommended an insurance agent a couple buildings away.

It looked to me that what was going on is that 75-90% of their students are foreign nationals and are easily pushed into carrying their own insurance so the school doesn’t have to, and there is probably some mutual benefit with their neighbor the insurance agent.

So I just went without flying until I found one to buy.
 
Do you mean a person who happens to be a CFI or using your plane for instruction under a CFI?

I would think the latter is way more expensive than the former... also now you need 100hr inspections if used in flight training.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
My insurance says that anyone with a commercial or higher license can fly my plane without me if authorized by me.
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and with a waiver of subrogation the insurance can sue those same people to recover any claim paid.
 
Tony R said:
If I wanted to allow my CFI to fly my plane without me tin it, how do I work that out with my insurance company?

Is it something that an insurance company will allow if they are not an owner?
Click to expand...
I have done this with several owners. I can instruct the owner or fly their aircraft. The insurance will require their flight times and issues documents naming me as an insured with a waiver of subrogation.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Here is another little gotcha I was recently made aware of. If you have a non- owned aircraft policy, and you crash the plane but it isn't pilot error, like due to a mechanical'' failure, you may not have coverage. In other words, the non-owned underwriter isn't going to pay for the owner's failure to maintain the aircraft, only damage caused by your bone headed pilot skills.

Being a named pilot /insured is really the best way to go, with a supplental non-owner policy to cover deductibles. Renting a plane from an fbo is another story, as they have commercial coverage.
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Invariably, an FBO's insurance policy is written to make the FBO whole should a renter have an accident. It doesn't necessarily protect the renter in any way. If there is an accident in an FBO's rental, the FBO insurance carrier can go after the renter in attempt to recover any funds they've had to pay out to the FBO. It's called subrogation. Not saying they would, only that they could.
 
If you have an open pilot coverage ,no problem unless the CFI provides instruction to other pilots.
 
It’s become obvious that nobody really knows…
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Here is another little gotcha I was recently made aware of. If you have a non- owned aircraft policy, and you crash the plane but it isn't pilot error, like due to a mechanical failure, you may not have coverage. In other words, the non-owned underwriter isn't going to pay for the owner's failure to maintain the aircraft, only damage caused by your bone headed pilot skills.

Being a named pilot /insured is really the best way to go, with a supplental non-owner policy to cover deductibles. Renting a plane from an fbo is another story, as they have commercial coverage.
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You are confusing liability with insurance coverage, If you have an accident, your non-owners policy will defend you in any lawsuit brought against you and pay, to the limits of your policy, any amounts you are found liable to pay. Your insurance may also negotiate a settlement.

The attorney fees to defend you can cost more than the plane was worth. Even if the plane was found to be mechanically deficient (an AD wasn’t done, an inspection wasn’t logged, the tires were bald) you were PIC and required to determine airworthiness preflight and discontinue the flight if the plane becomes unairworthy.
 
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Clip4 said:
Even if the plane was found to be mechanically deficient (an AD wasn’t done, an inspection wasn’t logged, the tires were bald) you were PIC and required to determine airworthiness preflight and discontinue the flight if the plane becomes unairworthy.
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You just made my point. Unless the owner of the non-owned policy examines the mx records of the borrowed aircraft to be certain there are no deficiencies, they are open to possible subrogation of the loss, for the reason you cite above. I call that a gotcha.
 
Tony R said:
If I wanted to allow my CFI to fly my plane without me tin it, how do I work that out with my insurance company?

Is it something that an insurance company will allow if they are not an owner?
Click to expand...
I have had a number of people let me fly their planes over the years, they just add me as named to their insurance, They send me an insurance form to update once a year when they update their insurance.

Tends to be a win-win for everyone. I get access to an airplane to fly. Most don’t fly their planes more than about 50 hrs per year so it keeps the usage of the airplane up (good for the airplane). Plus it keeps me current and familiar with their airplane when they want to fly with me, and they get a second opinion about any issues. Occasionally they will ask them to take their plane and meet them somewhere.

Biggest issue is it is surprising how little I fly their airplanes, even when all I pay for or gas, or in a few cases the owners have even offered to buy gas for me also.

Brian
 
Open Pilot and Named insured (added) are totally different things…just realize the difference in coverage when there is a loss.
 
brcase said:
Biggest issue is it is surprising how little I fly their airplanes, even when all I pay for or gas, or in a few cases the owners have even offered to buy gas for me also.
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I agree. Same here. Like most CFIs, I have been granted access to numerous airplanes. And I almost never fly them. Probably because I'm busy flying other airplanes!
 
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