Allegiant Captain Fired For Evacuation

Kritchlow said:
Whatever.... I'm laughing. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I'm done arguing with amateurs.
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He's right. Crap pay does lend to fatigue. Can't afford a hotel or decent crash pad so they sleep in the crew room. More direct is crap work rules. 11 days off a month lend to people maximizing time at home and tighter commutes leaving less time for rest and longer duty days.

Since credentials seem to be soooooo important here I've got over 7 years 121.
 
Nice to know their is so much discontent in the front office, makes me feel so much better in the back of the bus.:mad2:
 
N801BH said:
My very first google search turned this up
..

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/27/New-Red-Alert-Billions-Over-Budget-F-35-Fighter
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just to interject something wrt DoD budgets, etc

Over the past 30 years I've seen a myriad of reasons why initial budgets have been established that were unrealistically low. Then the program comes in over budget and we see headlines and handwringing and people wanting to investigate why projects are overbudget. I've never seen these studies question the initial estimates.

Then, of course, there are always opportunities for requirements creep (costing money) and don't get me started on the inefficiencies of the Federal Acquisition Regulations (which apply to all Federal spending, not just the DoD).

There are the idiots that think a program with an optimum production rate (optimum in terms of cost per unit) can have the production stretched over more years and then they ***ch about the increased costs.

now back to the urinary olympics about the beauty of unions...
 
Bob Noel said:
I've never seen these studies question the initial estimates.
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There's a fairly well-publicized example of that happening as we speak, er, type. ;)

Nauga,
letting the lawyers duke it out
 
Kritchlow said:
Until you walk in the footsteps of an airline guy, you should not be entitled to an opinion on airline unions.
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Well, isn't that special.

Can you imagine if we treated the rest of our decision / debate processes that way?

Unless you are a climatologist, you are not entitled to an opinion on climate change.

Unless you are a Gulf War vet, you are not entitled to an opinion on middle east military deployments.

Unless you are a teacher, you are not entitled to an opinion on public school reform.​

Etc. :wink2:
 
There are myriad reasons why, in the unique context of professional airline pilots, unions can be important. As observed above, the absence of a viable lateral hiring path, and the resultant evisceration of market power for pilots, is a key example. The ability to speak with a more powerful voice on issues of safety is another.

What is inappropriate, however, is the unfortunate cultural habit surrounding the use of the word "scab." It's egregious in most any circumstance, but particularly so as used in the airline world, because it is almost never properly-applied.

Those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it.
 
brien23 said:
Nice to know their is so much discontent in the front office, makes me feel so much better in the back of the bus.:mad2:
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Yeah, huh? That has been a concern for a long time, not to mention that the pay and quality of life issues drive away the 'best and brightest' from even applying to the industry. Compound that with not getting nearly as many military trained and proven candidates. Most airline pilots now come from a system where no one washes out until the money runs out regardless their issues and likely with unproven reaction qualities. Airline travel safety will improve with autonomy. Too many airline pilots are airline pilots because it's the only way they can afford to fly.
 
brien23 said:
Nice to know their is so much discontent in the front office, makes me feel so much better in the back of the bus.:mad2:
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What discontent are you referring?
 
Bob Noel said:
just to interject something wrt DoD budgets, etc

Over the past 30 years I've seen a myriad of reasons why initial budgets have been established that were unrealistically low. Then the program comes in over budget and we see headlines and handwringing and people wanting to investigate why projects are overbudget. I've never seen these studies question the initial estimates.

Then, of course, there are always opportunities for requirements creep (costing money) and don't get me started on the inefficiencies of the Federal Acquisition Regulations (which apply to all Federal spending, not just the DoD).

There are the idiots that think a program with an optimum production rate (optimum in terms of cost per unit) can have the production stretched over more years and then they ***ch about the increased costs.

now back to the urinary olympics about the beauty of unions...
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I agree with your assessment.....


The thing that opened my eyes about waste and fraud in government was 30 years or so ago...

My mom worked with the DoD in Orlando as a contract administrator... Her project was the JSTARS program.... She would explain to me layers and layers of flat out BS just to move a small segment of a project to approval / out to bid / and final purchase of said part...

Now, here is where the fraud kicks in... In the 80's there was unrest over in the sand box and the military had not completed the final testing of the JSTARS project, but were satisfied it was a viable concept so they rushed it into action and typical DoD rules ... They needed spares for high wear items to be sent over to the sandbox in case a part failed...

Keep in mind this is just one part out of 10 of thousands that needed to be bought in a timely manner... A couple who owned a small electronics / surplus store in Orlando.... Turns out they won the bid for that part and were the ( preferred provider)..

Part was a simple and common 11 pin cannon plug anyone can buy for 15 bucks..... Their bid price was 175.00 and the DoD bought 30 of them in the beginning for the project...

So, fast forward a few years and orders came down from the Pentagon for all contract admins to reorder items for spares. So my mom calls up this small mom and pop operation, asks for 10 plugs, confirms the current price would be 175.00 and places an order with a PO #.... Keep in mind my mom only orders the part since contract admins do not see the final invoice or cut checks.

Now, fast forward another year or so and a random audit ramps up for spare parts bought earlier and the cannon plugs draw the short straw and that purchase gets looked at closely... Seems this ( small operation, mom and pop) preferred provider knew the weak links in DoD's rush order chaos and scammed it to the max... Their invoice showed they sold the DoD 10 plugs at 175,000.00 EACH...

So, the auditor, the manager of the procurement office and my mom drive over to have a talk with this company.. The elderly lady is there, the husband was out getting lunch... They show her the invoice and ask WTF... My mom said the lady didn't blink an eye and casually told all three of them she would look into the matter and apparently a decimal point got transposed..:rolleyes2:.. The lady told them she would get back to them when her husband got back from lunch....

So, the three go back to the office and wait,, no call that afternoon, or the next day, or the day after that... Then the weekend came and on Monday the three loaded back up into the car and go back to the store... Doors locked, they look in the window and it is nothing but bare walls. So they run down the landlord who owned the strip mall and ask... Where are they ? He says they paid the rent in full till the end of the month and cleaned out their space over the weekend...:yikes:

After a short conversation on the way back to the office the auditor calmly says.... " we will just write it off as uncollectable"...

As my mom would say the rest of her life ... Just another day in the DoD world of doing business.. :mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
That's not waste, it's theft. Of course, the fix is another layer in the beurocratic machine....bigger government and all.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Not trolling, sincere question since I know little of the US maritime industry. But why is the bolded above a "problem" exactly,considering that such dynamic is a given in all manners of american employer relationship towards their employees?
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To put it in the perspective of airline flying, it would be like having all pilots be members of a union like ALPA. You bid on trips based on your union seniority, but every trip might be with a different airline. So this week you are flying a Delta jet, next week United. You could care less about your performance for the company, because they have little to no say in whether you work there. You also don't care if the passengers have a good flight experience, because whether they continue to book with that carrier really doesn't affect you. Delta can fail for all you care since their routes will likely get picked up by another airline who is probably represented by your union.

When I was sailing AMO, most members were more concerned about doing their time and gaining seniority than doing what was best for the ship/company.

It continues to function in the merchant marine largely because there is no interaction between the public and the crew. Back in the days when there were US Flag ocean liners, their crewing was much more like the airlines.
 
SCCutler said:
There are myriad reasons why, in the unique context of professional airline pilots, unions can be important. As observed above, the absence of a viable lateral hiring path, and the resultant evisceration of market power for pilots, is a key example. The ability to speak with a more powerful voice on issues of safety is another.

What is inappropriate, however, is the unfortunate cultural habit surrounding the use of the word "scab." It's egregious in most any circumstance, but particularly so as used in the airline world, because it is almost never properly-applied.

Those who forget history, are doomed to repeat it.
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I agree with the misuse around the word "scab" that is mainly mis applied by the younger generations .

For those unfamiliar a Scab is someone who crosses a picket line during a strike ,it is without a doubt considered an unforgivable act in this industry and will land you in a national blacklist along with negative treatment as long as you fly the line , or even Jumpseat . If you don't believe me , go ask almost any legacy airline pilot .

"Flying the Line " is one of the most accurate documentaries of the airline industry and how Unions unfortunately had to take a seat at the table mainly for the sake of safety , it is highly educational and I recommend anyone considering this industry read it , I wish I had sooner .
 
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ElPaso Pilot said:
Well, isn't that special.

Can you imagine if we treated the rest of our decision / debate processes that way?

Unless you are a climatologist, you are not entitled to an opinion on climate change.

Unless you are a Gulf War vet, you are not entitled to an opinion on middle east military deployments.

Unless you are a teacher, you are not entitled to an opinion on public school reform.​

Etc. :wink2:
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Please don't chop off my paragraph when you quote me just so it fits into your scenario.
 
taters said:
I agree with the misuse around the word "scab" that is mainly mis applied by the younger generations .

For those unfamiliar a Scab is someone who crosses a picket line during a strike ,it is without a doubt considered an unforgivable act in this industry and will land you in a national blacklist along with negative treatment as long as you fly the line , or even Jumpseat . If you don't believe me , go ask almost any legacy airline pilot .

"Flying the Line " is one of the most accurate documentaries of the airline industry and how Unions unfortunately had to take a seat at the table mainly for the sake of safety , it is highly educational and I recommend anyone considering this industry read it , I wish I had sooner .
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This is true, although I wonder how long that mentality will continue to exist in the airline industry.

Most of those scab lists (and the pilots who still carry them) were from the 80's when it seemed like you had a lot more organized strikes and strike-busters. I remember many days of airline pilots picketing at airport terminals, but that sure seems like a long time ago.

Seems that in the not too distant future, most of those scabs and those who carry the scab lists are going to be retired.
 
Don't sweat it, TPP is the tool that will force the end of Cabotage and truly 'globalize' the economy. Once that happens and foreign airlines start competing on domestic routes, the airline industry in the US will see drastic changes, and the cost of negative value unions will be the first thing chopped.
 
denverpilot said:
They ever ended? ;)
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Like Fearless Tower, I have noticed that there haven't been pilot strikes recently. Slowdowns yes, but not strikes like in the old days. Isn't there some kind of prohibition against striking now unless mediation fails, and isn't the period for mediation pretty long?



I know three people on that list. Two are retired, and one (who was a good friend) has died.
 
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I have always really enjoyed the extra work I have had to do as an airline maintenance professional (mechanic, lead, supervisor and MOC) when some of the good ol' union boys play games with logbook write-ups during contract talks. The number of non existent and non verifiable faults go way up. This of course causes us to waste valuable time troubleshooting faults that never existed and ultimately results in either a "no fault found" signoff or replacing a good part which contrary to the belief of some pilots, we do not like to do. These a-holes think they are being a PITA to management but they are actually causing more hassles for fellow employees.

Yep, union ethics. Gotta love it.

:mad:
 
SkyDog58 said:
I have always really enjoyed the extra work I have had to do as an airline maintenance professional (mechanic, lead, supervisor and MOC) when some of the good ol' union boys play games with logbook write-ups during contract talks. The number of non existent and non verifiable faults go way up. This of course causes us to waste valuable time troubleshooting faults that never existed and ultimately results in either a "no fault found" signoff or replacing a good part which contrary to the belief of some pilots, we do not like to do. These a-holes think they are being a PITA to management but they are actually causing more hassles for fellow employees.

Yep, union ethics. Gotta love it.

:mad:
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You clearly don't understand. These unions are different!
 
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