"All AD's complied with"

k9medic

k9medic

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ATP-H, CMEL, CSEL, CFI/CFII Airplanes and Helicopters
Aircraft maintainers - If an A&P/IA signs off an engine logbook with "All AD's complied with, no new this period" as well as "this engine has been inspected IAW an Annual Inspection and is determined to be in airworthy condition" does that imply that even though the AD's may not be listed that they are in fact complied with?

I'm specifically interested in the 99-04-04 AD for the slick mags.
 
There ought to be an entry somewhere in the logs that says the AD was complied with. After that, going forward you don't have to keep listing it at every annual (unless it's a recurring AD)
 
k9medic said:
That's the issue. The Slick mag AD is a recurring AD - every 250 hours but it doesn't show as being "signed off" individually.
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As an owner, I would want my IA to specifically note the AD was performed and the tach time it will be next due. Did you ask them if they complied with that specific AD?

I don't think your plane is airworthy if it has not been specifically logged as compiled with and you are past the 250 hours. How else could you show compliance if it isn't logged?
 
k9medic said:
That's the issue. The Slick mag AD is a recurring AD - every 250 hours but it doesn't show as being "signed off" individually.
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The mechanic may not have signed it off specifically because he didn’t do anything with it. In other words, if it was previously complied with within the last 250 hours it isn’t due yet, and nothing needs to be done until it is due.

Look back further in your logs to see when it was last complied with and see how much time you have left.
 
k9medic said:
they are in fact complied with?
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Depends. Is there a current signed AD listing in the aircraft records? Is the Slick AD still applicable to the aircraft? And is the Slick AD due at the time of the annual?

Each AD requires a separate sign off. If there is not a listing, or individual logbook write ups in your records for each applicable AD then there is an owner issue with 91.417. If the AD is recurring there is also a requirement that the next date/time for next action to be noted.
 
k9medic said:
Aircraft maintainers - If an A&P/IA signs off an engine logbook with "All AD's complied with, no new this period" as well as "this engine has been inspected IAW an Annual Inspection and is determined to be in airworthy condition" does that imply that even though the AD's may not be listed that they are in fact complied with?

I'm specifically interested in the 99-04-04 AD for the slick mags.
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Is your mag a Slick 6251, 6252, 6255, 6351, or 6355?
 
One is a 6355 unless it was replaced with a different series mag. There is an entry that just says "replaced mag" with no reference to a series. The other is a 6350.

Not sure why there would be two different mags or why there would not be specifics.

Engine was an overhauled Mattituck engine installed in 2004
 
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mondtster said:
Look back further in your logs to see when it was last complied with and see how much time you have left.
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Good advice,, read the required return to service entry requirements of ADs, the entry must contain the due date/time of the next compliance.
 
Some owners create a spreadsheet to control all the in-phase and out-of-phase tasks for their airplanes. I used Excel for the whole fleet in the flight school, with all the airplanes listed across the top and all the tasks down the left side. It was easy to update the date and aircraft times every morning and then scroll though the thing to see what was due and when. It came to five or six pages.

Inadequate record-keeping is one of the more common deficiencies in aircraft maintenance. Mechanics are technicians and most hate clerk-work. Complete and accurate, easy-to-read records enhance the saleability of an airplane, though.
 
Thanks all.

Yes, I put together a spreadsheet of my own that hotlinks each applicable AD to the sheet and have notated when it was complied with and if it is due again.

This is how I came across the AD in question. Something tells me that it's due... Just a sneaky suspicion. Haven't heard from my mechanic yet but I'm going to get it scheduled.
 
It doesn't take much effort to write out that the individual AD's were complied with. I discuss the sign off sticker with my mechanic before it is printed to make sure it includes everything. When I bought my plane the logbook research was difficult because of statements like the OP quoted were in it. I want to avoid that when I sell.
 
I also have an Excel spreadsheet for ADs (and SBs) for my aircraft. When we accomplish one, there is an entry in the logbook with the "Next Due" hours or date. The spreadsheet also gets updated. I print this out for my A&P/IA before each Annual.
 
So I tracked down the A&P that signed off the entry. All good now, but dang, it would have been nice to have had some clarification in the book!
 
Preparing the list of applicable ADs and next due date is a required step in annual. I'd not be happy if that information wasn't also provided somewhere.
 
Regarding ADs and maintenance records check out 91.417 (a)(2)(v)

(v) The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the next action is required
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my approach to AD's is multi level. I do an AD log for every aircraft I sign-off. the statement "all ADs complied with" means to me that I have checked that all the ADs are done and in the logs and my AD log notes the date and if possible, the page number of the entry for that AD. For any AD that has a terminating action, I state in the write-up that "this action is terminating for ADxx-xx and any recurring AD has the interval noted as required by the AD. somewhat time consuming for the first run but it saves a lot of time on the rest of the them. if a new AD is issued its simple enough to do the write-up in the log, enter the AD in the AD log, reference the date and page number in the log and done.

just a blanket statement "all AD's Complied with" is not worth anything to me.
 
flyingron said:
Preparing the list of applicable ADs and next due date is a required step in annual. I'd not be happy if that information wasn't also provided somewhere.
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When you use a separate log for part 39 compliance no statement is required in the annual sign off.
 
At annual, my IA specifically indicates required AD work and provides a signed report for all AD's are in compliance. I have 5 reoccurring AD's but only 2 are yearly.
 
A question to the owners out there.

Where did you learn about AD's and how to track them?

I feel this is a very poorly taught subject. When I went through ground school, the instructor spent maybe 10 minutes on it and only then from the perspective of the pilot.

The looks I get from some owners tells me they have no idea what an AD really means to them.
 
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JAWS said:
A question to the owners out there.

Where did you learn about AD's and how to track them?

I feel this is a very poorly taught subject. When I went through ground school, the instructor spent maybe 10 minutes on it and only then from the perspective of the pilot.

The looks I get from some owners tells me they have no idea what an AD really means to them.
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There is a whole section of my aircraft logs that lists all applicable ADs for my aircraft type and a notation if they are NA, complied with, or recurring, and when any relevant compliance was accomplished. New ones are added at annual or when required. Owners will get mail notices of new ADs that might be relevant.
 
mondtster said:
The mechanic may not have signed it off specifically because he didn’t do anything with it. In other words, if it was previously complied with within the last 250 hours it isn’t due yet, and nothing needs to be done until it is due.

Look back further in your logs to see when it was last complied with and see how much time you have left.
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That's all well and good. But, it would be handy to make a note as to when it is due.
 
bluerooster said:
That's all well and good. But, it would be handy to make a note as to when it is due.
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No argument there, but it’s not the mechcanic’s job to hold an owner’s hand for everything. ;)
 
mondtster said:
No argument there, but it’s not the mechcanic’s job to hold an owner’s hand for everything. ;)
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But for many owners, it's not just the airplane that needs looking after. The owner needs looking after, too. Many aren't interested or motivated enough to take their more obscure legal duties seriously, or are too busy making a living, so they will let the mechanic do it. Or, at least, they should let the mechanic do it if they aren't going to. We had a lot of owners that glady paid for the time to research ADs and keep a spreadsheet up to date. They recognized the improved safety and resale value when such stuff was properly tracked.
 
JAWS said:
A question to the owners out there.

Where did you learn about AD's and how to track them?

I feel this is a very poorly taught subject. When I went through ground school, the instructor spent maybe 10 minutes on it and only then from the perspective of the pilot.

The looks I get from some owners tells me they have no idea what an AD really means to them.
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That's because ground school is to teach you about being a pilot, not an owner. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as owner ground school, at least not formally. However, there are plenty of resources available to assist a new or potential owner learn the requisite knowledge.
 
Dan Thomas said:
But for many owners, it's not just the airplane that needs looking after. The owner needs looking after, too. Many aren't interested or motivated enough to take their more obscure legal duties seriously, or are too busy making a living, so they will let the mechanic do it. Or, at least, they should let the mechanic do it if they aren't going to. We had a lot of owners that glady paid for the time to research ADs and keep a spreadsheet up to date. They recognized the improved safety and resale value when such stuff was properly tracked.
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Thankfully, I don't have to maintain airplanes to make a living. I don't have time to ride herd on a bunch of owners who don't want to understand their responsibilities, so I let the other shops take care of them. :)
 
Dan Thomas said:
Many aren't interested or motivated enough to take their more obscure legal duties seriously,
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Quite true. At first I would go out of my way try to get them to understand those duties. Some would come around some wouldn't. This type group also tended to tinker on their aircraft without a write up or a heads up to me or other mechanics. But like others above, I had a day job so I eventually decided not to support those owners who would rather not take care of their legal responsibilities. Once I went the owner-assist route we (owners/me) had a simple written agreement: I assisted provided they understood/performed all their required FAR owner duties which for some was quite the eye opener.
 
JAWS said:
A question to the owners out there.

Where did you learn about AD's and how to track them?

I feel this is a very poorly taught subject. When I went through ground school, the instructor spent maybe 10 minutes on it and only then from the perspective of the pilot.

The looks I get from some owners tells me they have no idea what an AD really means to them.
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The FAA maintains a searchable website for AD's. Search your plane as well as the major components it contains like prop, hub, engine, installed STC's, etc.

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/

-David
 
NordicDave said:
The FAA maintains a searchable website for AD's. Search your plane as well as the major components it contains like prop, hub, engine, installed STC's, etc.
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Even that doesn't cover it. There are numerous appliance ADs that can take many hours to rule out or determine applicability. I had a long list of possibilities for the guys to check when looking at an airplane for the first time, especially if the AD record didn't mention things like altimeters or the ACS ignition switch. The absence of those indicated a historical lack of research.

United Instruments altimeters. Two ADs at least, and unless the airplane's records are complete to the degree that the altimeter model and serial numbers were recorded anytime the altimeter was repaired or tested, you have to get under the panel with a flashlight and mirror, or a borecope camera, and find out.

The ACS ignition switch. I have found numerous airplanes that have had the Bendix ignition switch AD test performed on them for 30 years or more, and find that the switch is an ACS, far beyond the 2000 hour limit and lacking the requisite diode on the starter contactor. Again, one must get under the panel and do some digging.

More from memory: Instruments other than altimeters, especially gyros. Brakes and wheels. Transponders. Seat belts and shoulder harnesses. Magnetos---lots of magneto ADs. Fire extinguishers. Prop governors. Oil coolers. Induction filters (especially Brackett. Found lots of outstanding ADs on those). Carburetors. Fuel injection servos. Hoses and hose assemblies of numerous makes and types (though the airframe manufacturer often points those out). Standby vacuum systems. Vacuum pumps. Combustion heaters. Aftermarket engine cylinders (often found under the engine listing, though). The FAA doesn't have a workable search function for this stuff, so you have to get suspicious about a lot of components. Experience helps.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Even that doesn't cover it. There are numerous appliance ADs that can take many hours to rule out or determine applicability. I had a long list of possibilities for the guys to check when looking at an airplane for the first time, especially if the AD record didn't mention things like altimeters or the ACS ignition switch. The absence of those indicated a historical lack of research.

United Instruments altimeters. Two ADs at least, and unless the airplane's records are complete to the degree that the altimeter model and serial numbers were recorded anytime the altimeter was repaired or tested, you have to get under the panel with a flashlight and mirror, or a borecope camera, and find out.

The ACS ignition switch. I have found numerous airplanes that have had the Bendix ignition switch AD test performed on them for 30 years or more, and find that the switch is an ACS, far beyond the 2000 hour limit and lacking the requisite diode on the starter contactor. Again, one must get under the panel and do some digging.

More from memory: Instruments other than altimeters, especially gyros. Brakes and wheels. Transponders. Seat belts and shoulder harnesses. Magnetos---lots of magneto ADs. Fire extinguishers. Prop governors. Oil coolers. Induction filters (especially Brackett. Found lots of outstanding ADs on those). Carburetors. Fuel injection servos. Hoses and hose assemblies of numerous makes and types (though the airframe manufacturer often points those out). Standby vacuum systems. Vacuum pumps. Combustion heaters. Aftermarket engine cylinders (often found under the engine listing, though). The FAA doesn't have a workable search function for this stuff, so you have to get suspicious about a lot of components. Experience helps.
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Agree Dan, and your extra illustration is helpful. We think somewhat alike. I think we are saying about the same thing.

It does take time to perform the research. I doh don’t helpful to search by manufacturer and then drill down to specifics if something shows up. I have a detailed equipment list including all model #’s, part #’s, and serial #’s. I know some like to take an ignorance is bliss approach, I don’t. It’s my rear end hanging up there in space depending on everything working.

-David
 
After some thought about the AD compliance and the way it was signed off, I decided to have my A&P do a new inspection today. $70 and a good piece of mind was well spent.
 
k9medic said:
After some thought about the AD compliance and the way it was signed off, I decided to have my A&P do a new inspection today. $70 and a good piece of mind was well spent.
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Smart decision. The owner is accountable for airworthiness. In the event of the unimaginable it's good to have gone the extra distance. I have my A&P help me with every oil change. While I change the oil he inspects. He's headed off many issues before a real problem exists. Plus I have an A&P sign the log book stating run-up performed as required, no abnormalities found.
 
k9medic said:
After some thought about the AD compliance and the way it was signed off, I decided to have my A&P do a new inspection today. $70 and a good piece of mind was well spent.
Click to expand...

Do ADLOG.com it's continuous.
 
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