Airline Disengenuousness

kayoh190 said:
I don't think the companies would care - as long as it's cost neutral they couldn't give a crap where the pilots come from
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How could it possibly be cost-neutral when incoming pilots aren't starting at year 1 on the longevity scale?
 
Larry in TN said:
How could it possibly be cost-neutral when incoming pilots aren't starting at year 1 on the longevity scale?
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It'd be pretty much impossible since all the airlines have different distributions of longevity, but for the sake of argument let's limit the discussion to the big 3, and imagine they're under one union (AA switches to ALPA). The union's membership agrees on one list for the three (again impossible, but we're dreaming here, so might as well dream). I currently have 5 years of longevity at my company, so I'd have 5 years on the new list. And so on from top to bottom. New hires will still go to year 1, but they're being hired by the union now - not an airline. They go wherever their seniority can hold - to any of the bases/equipment of the big 3. But the bottom line is now everyone is a union employee, on a union payscale. Each airline has vacancies as they always do, but now it gets filled by 'the big 3 ALPA list'. Obviously there are a million other issues as well, such as training bubbles, etc...but the whole thing is an exercise in futility, so might as well not waste time thinking more about it.

So anyway, my point wasn't really that it's possible (it's not), but to counter Nate's thought that the reason it can't happen is because ALPA is too weak to force it on the airlines. My contention is that I don't think the airlines would really care, but regardless this concept was DOA looooong before you even get to that point - there's no way the *pilots* will allow it.
 
spiderweb said:
Good grief!
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Nothing new. I worked at American International out of Atlantic City in the early eighties (Dc-9 operator) and we carried the scum of the earth. Low fares that competed with the buses, open seating and more than one gate agent got punched by a irate sleezebag. The parent company was a bus company.
 
Paulie said:
Nothing new. I worked at American International out of Atlantic City in the early eighties (Dc-9 operator) and we carried the scum of the earth. Low fares that competed with the buses, open seating and more than one gate agent got punched by a irate sleezebag. The parent company was a bus company.
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I bet that job gave you some good stories
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I bet that job gave you some good stories
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You wouldn’t believe some of the flight and maintenance operations I saw there. Learned a lot, but mostly because of a desire to do things correctly. Have a bunch from when I worked at Eclipse jet at the start of production. I’ll never get in one.
 
kayoh190 said:
So anyway, my point wasn't really that it's possible (it's not), but to counter Nate's thought that the reason it can't happen is because ALPA is too weak to force it on the airlines. My contention is that I don't think the airlines would really care, but regardless this concept was DOA looooong before you even get to that point - there's no way the *pilots* will allow it.
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Probably both are true. Even if the pilots wanted it, the unions of today could never pull it off. Pilot groups lose something every time contracts are negotiated. Maybe they’re losing them at a slower rate than without the unions. Who knows? Very rare, maybe even never, have the deals gotten significantly better in the last 30 years.
 
Paulie said:
You wouldn’t believe some of the flight and maintenance operations I saw there. Learned a lot, but mostly because of a desire to do things correctly. Have a bunch from when I worked at Eclipse jet at the start of production. I’ll never get in one.
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You’re not the only person I’ve heard say that about the eclipse jet. Some of the things I heard were hard to believe. Not planning on finding out for myself.
 
At eclipse the inspectors were from Cessna (there was a sign by the airport by Cessna begging for them to come back) a bunch of experienced contractors, a bigger bunch of direct employees from a local bus manufacturer and engineers that didn’t have a clue. Lots of tribal knowledge amongst the ex bus builders that was totally against standard aircraft practices. When I questioned one on why they were doing something the wrong way I got “we always do it this way”.
I watched a guy trying to figure out flight control rigging from a hand written procedure. He never did it before, never worked on airplanes until two weeks prior and of course no A&P. I tried to explain it and mentioned walking the tension and his eyes went blank.
And hucks version of a cherry max. Lots and lots of them.
Their motto was the we’re going to show Boeing and Honeywell how to really build a airplane.
Microsoft money and arrogance to the max.
When the went for the production certificate the MIDO guys were actually yelling at the inspectors who were tasked with selling the production. They went away without signing it off.
Suddenly the MIDO out of DC showed up and they got the certificate. Someone had friends in Washington.
 
denverpilot said:
A cellist and a pilot? You must have all the ladies swooning! :)
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Maybe he's Stringfellow Hawke!

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denverpilot said:
A cellist and a pilot? You must have all the ladies swooning! :)
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Years ago a college entrance essay was making the rounds in chain emails and the kid described a very full life. He wrote that his trombone playing made women swoon. Funny essay.
 
Paulie said:
Standbys are just that, the airline ain’t giving the hotel rooms.
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When you have a ticketed confirmed seat on a flight that is missed or gets cancelled, guess what you become? A Standby....until the airline finds an open seat on another flight to put you in.

And if (through no fault of your own) end up having to wait until the next day, then most major airlines will put you in a hotel typically through pre-arranged rate with select hotels in the area.

Some poor people in Philly last weekend trying to get to the Northeast were sitting standby for 2 days before they could get flights out.
 
Fearless Tower said:
And if (through no fault of your own) end up having to wait until the next day, then most major airlines will put you in a hotel typically through pre-arranged rate with select hotels in the area.

Some poor people in Philly last weekend trying to get to the Northeast were sitting standby for 2 days before they could get flights out.
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Dancing on the head of a pin, the airline may (or may not) let you use a distressed passenger rate - those have been going by the wayside for some time. But generally they won't put you up unless it's a major screw-up on their part and you are in their top group of flyers. They won't put you up for weather or (in most cases) even for aircraft maintenance or crew issues or.... But it depends on the airline so it doesn't hurt to ask.

PHL is horrid. Enough said.
 
wsuffa said:
Dancing on the head of a pin, the airline may (or may not) let you use a distressed passenger rate - those have been going by the wayside for some time. But generally they won't put you up unless it's a major screw-up on their part and you are in their top group of flyers. They won't put you up for weather or (in most cases) even for aircraft maintenance or crew issues or.... But it depends on the airline so it doesn't hurt to ask.

PHL is horrid. Enough said.
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It varies from airline to airline, but it is actually specified in the contract of carriage. Some are better than others. My experience in the last year has been that Delta will put you up completely. Send you to a hotel, with a toiletry kit at no expense to you. American will cover a portion, up to a point.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It varies from airline to airline, but it is actually specified in the contract of carriage. Some are better than others. My experience in the last year has been that Delta will put you up completely. Send you to a hotel, with a toiletry kit at no expense to you. American will cover a portion, up to a point.
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Number of years ago Delta put Karen up somewhere but didn’t bother to tell her the hotel was middle of nowhere, and food would be impossible to find in a town that the sidewalks rolled up in at midnight. She was c-r-a-n-k-y. I got texts for hours about how ticked off she was until she went to sleep.

I’ve never been able to get her to do a commercial leg as part of a flight where I needed to stay longer than her and we had arrived in the 182, ever again.

She is not a happy camper when she’s hangry. Hangry makes her avoid situations where she had it happen to her, for the rest of her life. Ha.

We’ve had other trips where I said I could fly out separately in the 182 and get her home via the airlines for something she needed to be back for. She just says no, and tells me to go without her. Hahahaha.

My dad made the mistake of scheduling us all for some fun event where we “forgot” to get her dinner once. He figured after the concert we’d grab some dumb fast food. Nope. Steamboat Springs. Everything closed.

By 7AM the next morning he’s in our bedroom telling me to get up quick, Karen is taking a shower and we are going to breakfast because he can see she’s probably going to kill both of us if we don’t leave the second she’s out of the shower at his mountain condo. Hahahahaha. He even skipped his morning coffee which was unheard of. Hahahahaha. Hurry. Breakfast. :)

He bought her a bunch of those candy necklaces for Christmas as a joke and put them in her stocking when she wasn’t looking. He said if we ever were going to an event ever again together she was to wear one of them for “emergencies”.

LOL LOL LOL.
 
One of the things that is always frustrating is when you sit at the gate for hours while they keep adjusting your departure time 30 minutes at a time to keep you in the gate area. Then at 11pm they finally give up and cancel the flight. Send you to a hotel and now everything is closed.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I am only a semi-pro. Sounds like @spiderweb makes his full living off music. I decided to make more money and did accounting full time.
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Probably a smart move since the classical music job market is about as hot as the market for professional poets (which is what my dad did, by the way)!
 
Fearless Tower said:
It varies from airline to airline, but it is actually specified in the contract of carriage. Some are better than others. My experience in the last year has been that Delta will put you up completely. Send you to a hotel, with a toiletry kit at no expense to you. American will cover a portion, up to a point.
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Delta has always been pretty good. Especially with their high value customers. I even got them to put me at my hotel of choice one time (rather than the crappy hotel on their list). I was spending LOTS of money with them at the time.

AA has gotten worse, much worse. You might get it if you're Concierge Key and the airline is at fault. You most likely won't get it if you're lower on the totem pole (but still worth asking nicely). And if it's weather or "act of god", AA usually won't do anything.
 
wsuffa said:
And if it's weather or "act of god", AA usually won't do anything.
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If you don't have status, you're not getting squat with anyone when it's weather, unfortunately. My (then) girlfriend and I got stuck in MSP one year for weather - the pilots timed out after an hour of waiting, and they ended up cancelling the flight. I was hoping they'd have some reserve pilots since it was a Delta base, but nope. But we were on our own for hotels - I'm sure with a little status it'd be different, but for poors like me we were kindly told to go **** ourselves. :)
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Years ago a college entrance essay was making the rounds in chain emails and the kid described a very full life. He wrote that his trombone playing made women swoon. Funny essay.
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Luka Šulić and Stjepan Hauser are a couple of cello players that probably have all the swooning women they can handle. Their act, 2CELLOS, has played to sold out venues all over the world. They also played hundreds of shows with Elton John's Million Dollar Piano production at Caesar's Palace between September 2011 and May 2018.

http://www.2cellos.com
 
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kayoh190 said:
My (then) girlfriend and I got stuck in MSP one year for weather -
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That must have been some system coming through to keep you there for 12 months. I probably would have just found an apartment with a short term lease instead of a hotel. Probably would have been cheaper. Did you end up buying a car during your year up there? So many logistical questions... ;)
 
Sluggo63 said:
That must have been some system coming through to keep you there for 12 months. I probably would have just found an apartment with a short term lease instead of a hotel. Probably would have been cheaper. Did you end up buying a car during your year up there? So many logistical questions... ;)
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It’s MSP.

“I spent twelve months there one day...” as grandpa used to say.
 
Sluggo63 said:
That must have been some system coming through to keep you there for 12 months. I probably would have just found an apartment with a short term lease instead of a hotel. Probably would have been cheaper. Did you end up buying a car during your year up there? So many logistical questions... ;)
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LOL! That'll teach me to be lazy with my language. :)

The good news about that incident is that it was an early warning about the girl I was with at the time - she did *not* handle adversity well.
 
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