Air Force One operating cost

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I just read something that said that AF1 costs a little over $200,000 per hour to operate. Doesn't that sound a bit high?
 
How many Air Force officers do you need to run all the tech? Add that to the gas, and perhaps amortize all the stuff they did to the airframe to make it AF1. I believe it.
 
Actually, its about an order of magnitude low.

That's just for the 747 operating expenses but does not include the multiple cargo aircraft that fly ahead of AF1 to bring the presidential limo, 100+ secret service agents, specialized safety/fire equipment, helicopters, etc... I would bet that the average domestic fundraising trip that his highness takes costs the taxpayer multiple millions of $$$.
 
That is like saying the Beast costs a bit more than $0.56 a mile to operate.

There is one helluv an infrastructure that goes into maintain and moving that thing (those things...there are two).

In reality AF1 hours of actually flying are VERY low compared to any other aircraft of that size so that would skew the numbers vs a commercial charter when you break it down hourly.
 
Once upon a time, I calculated the fuel cost alone on a 747 to be almost $4/second.

$20K/hour doesn't seem ridiculous at all, if you include all the usual maintenance costs.

And AF1 has higher-thrust engines than the one I calculated for (JT9Ds are quite obsolete now). Presumably higher fuel flow goes along with that. Certainly higher weight.

I used the $4/second figure to motivate operational efficiency changes to the mission software. It becomes worth spending a few person-weeks to solve a problem that saves even relatively small amounts of flight time.
 
RudyP said:
Actually, its about an order of magnitude low.

That's just for the 747 operating expenses but does not include the multiple cargo aircraft that fly ahead of AF1 to bring the presidential limo, 100+ secret service agents, specialized safety/fire equipment, helicopters, etc... I would bet that the average domestic fundraising trip that his highness takes costs the taxpayer multiple millions of $$$.
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And previous presidents didn't do the same thing.?
 
MAKG1 said:
Once upon a time, I calculated the fuel cost alone on a 747 to be almost $4/second.

$20K/hour doesn't seem ridiculous at all, if you include all the usual maintenance costs.

And AF1 has higher-thrust engines than the one I calculated for (JT9Ds are quite obsolete now). Presumably higher fuel flow goes along with that. Certainly higher weight.

I used the $4/second figure to motivate operational efficiency changes to the mission software. It becomes worth spending a few person-weeks to solve a problem that saves even relatively small amounts of flight time.
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Plus for international trips, both 747's fly to the destination
 
Scrabo said:
The sarcastic comment about the current president was a bit of a give away. Like him/her or not, at least respect the office, no matter who holds it.
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I think that the costs are pretty astronomical regardless of who happens to be sitting in the POTUS office at any given point. And my main grievance is the lack of transparency on these costs to the average Joe voter who has no clue that it costs multiple times their entire family’s lifetime earnings for the President to take one trip. I just wish people knew that and they don’t (as evidenced by the OP’s surprise at the vastly understated $200K /hour figure – and he’s a pilot!) Again, this point is agnostic to who happens to be in office – and I do realize that this is largely outside of the control of the President, being a secret service requirement to travel on AF1 with all the security stuff.

My secondary grievance which I have not yet mentioned in this thread, is that, yes, our current President does seem a bit hypocritical when he lambasts 1%ers for flying around in a (single) private jet using THEIR money while his travel budget is probably higher than the total combined spend of the flight departments of the Fortune 25 companies using OUR money.
 
RudyP said:
Actually, its about an order of magnitude low.

That's just for the 747 operating expenses but does not include the multiple cargo aircraft that fly ahead of AF1 to bring the presidential limo, 100+ secret service agents, specialized safety/fire equipment, helicopters, etc... I would bet that the average domestic fundraising trip that his highness takes costs the taxpayer multiple millions of $$$.
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Sometimes several limos, ambulances and somethings multiple 'Marine 1's' and escort helicopters , it's an logistical nightmare but they all seem to make it look easy
 
Things like AF1 are not about cost efficiency. Safety and security are first and foremost but AF1 is also the most recognizable plane on the planet and a statement piece of strength of standing in the world. You can't put a price on a prop swinging contest!

When it comes to POTUS regardless of the individual in office, cost efficiency is thrown out the window. It is about statement. Perfect example...my company works with the White House on Presidential visits...we were at a fundraiser for a congressman getting everything ready and the contractor for AT&T (gazillions of phone lines are brought in) looks at me and says "This is a fundraiser, right?"..."Yup" I replied..."Wouldn't they make more money by just giving everything they are spending on all this infrastructure and personnel to the Congressman's campaign than what they are gonna raise"..."Probably 10 times over...but you are looking at it from a practical standpoint. People won't remember the money but they will remember him standing next to the President. Welcome to politics and government!"
 
RudyP said:
I think that the costs are pretty astronomical regardless of who happens to be sitting in the POTUS office at any given point. And my main grievance is the lack of transparency on these costs to the average Joe voter who has no clue that it costs multiple times their entire family’s lifetime earnings for the President to take one trip. I just wish people knew that and they don’t (as evidenced by the OP’s surprise at the vastly understated $200K /hour figure – and he’s a pilot!) Again, this point is agnostic to who happens to be in office – and I do realize that this is largely outside of the control of the President, being a secret service requirement to travel on AF1 with all the security stuff.

My secondary grievance which I have not yet mentioned in this thread, is that, yes, our current President does seem a bit hypocritical when he lambasts 1%ers for flying around in a (single) private jet using THEIR money while his travel budget is probably higher than the total combined spend of the flight departments of the Fortune 25 companies using OUR money.
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No, the company's you speak of write all their aircraft expenses off and get a big tax deduction. You wind up paying what they should pay. You should know that. In addition, how many times did AF one go to Crawford texas for vacations!?
 
".. People won't remember the money but they will remember him standing next to the President."

So true. That photo of them standing with a president is priceless to them and their social circle.

schmoozing at its finest.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
No, the company's you speak of write all their aircraft expenses off and get a big tax deduction. You wind up paying what they should pay. You should know that. In addition, how many times did AF one go to Crawford texas for vacations!?
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Do you really think that slightly reducing the amount of taxes you do pay (from the highest corporate tax rate country in the world) is remotely analogous to spending tax dollars at a 100X higher rate?

Let's imagine you have $1000 and I stick a gun in your face and say "give me $350!" and you say "hold on, I spent $200 of it on my airplane, can you please only take $280 from the $800 I have left?" Then I take your $280 plus a couple thousand other people's $280 and spend $50000 flying myself in my much fancier plane. And then to add insult to injury, I claim that you're gaming the tax system and 'not paying your fair share' because you only let me steal $280 from you instead of the original $350. You believe in that line of BS???
 
Jimmy cooper said:
No, the company's you speak of write all their aircraft expenses off and get a big tax deduction. You wind up paying what they should pay. You should know that. In addition, how many times did AF one go to Crawford texas for vacations!?
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See if we can discuss AF1 without bashing the users, former and current, of it.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate and a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates .[1] However, the average corporate tax rate in 2011 dipped to 12.1%, its lowest level since before World War I, largely due to the great recession and a bonus depreciation tax break.[2]
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth-about-corporate-tax-rates/#61f371be20a5

"The bottom line: The conclusion reached by the CRS report is more accurate than that of the Business Roundtable. On average, the foreign effective tax rate is not much lower than the U.S. domestic tax rate."
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Let's not confuse the rate that is actually paid with the rate that it is set at. They're two vastly different numbers. 12.1% is considerably lower than the rate I paid in 2011.
 
I believe most or all former presidents used AF1 to campaign for themselves and others, reimbursing taxpayers at a rate that is a fraction of the actual cost. While I am not a fan of the current office holder, this is not one of the reasons I don't like him. :)
 
To figure out the cost you could look at the 89th Airlift Wing's annual budget, specifically the Presidential Airlift Group, and divide it by the number of hours flown for the year.
 
I remember when Bill C visited Belfast back in the 90's, there was a string of large support aircraft arriving days before him, including 3 "Marine 1" helos, I assumed the same number of aircraft arrived in London at the same time for his visit there the next day. I think even on the Africa trip that GWB took, they actually ferried out their own fuel supply as well as the quality of the JetA in country could not be guaranteed.

Your tax dollars at work.

I remember Tony Blair tried to make the case for a "Blair Force 1" and he was laughed at !!
 
N747JB said:
I believe most or all former presidents used AF1 to campaign for themselves and others, reimbursing taxpayers at a rate that is a fraction of the actual cost. While I am not a fan of the current office holder, this is not one of the reasons I don't like him. :)
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While used for campaigning work, the "campaign" only has to reimburse the equivalent of a commercial flight ticket for each individual.

There are three types of "Events" for POTUS. Official events where the White House/Government picks up the whole tab, Hosted Events where the hosts pays for the site and logistics but the WH pays for travel and POTUS related infrastructure expenses and Campaign event where the campaign is supposed to pay for everything except for safety and security.

That is why a campaign stop on the West Coast is usually accompanied by an "official" visit or event as well on the same trip.

Velocity173 said:
The Marine One helos don't always go with the POTUS. Rare occasions "Army One" fulfills the task of transportation.
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There are 32 helos in the Marine 1 fleet. There is always one on standby anywhere they go both domestically and internationally even if they are not performing a POTUS lift for that mission. You can bet even though they brought him in on Army 1 for operational purposes there was a Marine 1 in the wings ready to go
 
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SkyDog58 said:

:rofl:

What have you been smoking or are you just an optimist? :biggrin:
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Obviously.

I'm hoping that social and other pressures will keep people from posting contrary to the Rules of Conduct.
 
Shawn said:
While used for campaigning work, the "campaign" only has to reimburse the equivalent of a commercial flight ticket for each individual.

There are three types of "Events" for POTUS. Official events where the White House/Government picks up the whole tab, Hosted Events where the hosts pays for the site and logistics but the WH pays for travel and POTUS related infrastructure expenses and Campaign event where the campaign is supposed to pay for everything except for safety and security.

That is why a campaign stop on the West Coast is usually accompanied by an "official" visit or event as well on the same trip.



There are 32 helos in the Marine 1 fleet. There is always one on standby anywhere they go both domestically and internationally even if they are not performing a POTUS lift for that mission. You can bet even though they brought him in on Army 1 for operational purposes there was a Marine 1 in the wings ready to go
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Not sure of the logic of flying a Marine One into a combat zone just to not use it. Army assests are always readily available. When he arrived in 2010, there was no Marine One awaiting for him then as well. If it was, it was positioned somewhere out of country.

Also, I'd prefer to travel incognito in an MH-47 over a shiny VH-60 anyway. Most likely not use the "Army One" call sign also. Although nothing really happens between Bagram and Kabul, I'd still prefer the 160th way.
 
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Scrabo said:
Plus for international trips, both 747's fly to the destination
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Yes was surprised to see that once. Flew to Monterrey Mexico from ATL once when some meeting of world leaders was going on. Just about 90% jumbo jets from countries all over the world. And there was the two 747s parked next to each other. A ton of security, police, Mexican Army etc all over the place.
 
200k is what the AF bills for campaign related flights. It may or may not have anything to do with actual cost.
 
Heard 205K per hour on the news.
 
RudyP said:
Do you really think that slightly reducing the amount of taxes you do pay (from the highest corporate tax rate country in the world) is remotely analogous to spending tax dollars at a 100X higher rate?

Let's imagine you have $1000 and I stick a gun in your face and say "give me $350!" and you say "hold on, I spent $200 of it on my airplane, can you please only take $280 from the $800 I have left?" Then I take your $280 plus a couple thousand other people's $280 and spend $50000 flying myself in my much fancier plane. And then to add insult to injury, I claim that you're gaming the tax system and 'not paying your fair share' because you only let me steal $280 from you instead of the original $350. You believe in that line of BS???
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Absurd anology. Major US company's do not pay anywhere near the maximum tax rate. With battery's of lawyers and lobbyists they manage to manipulate the tax code so that they pay a much lower rate. ( try 15-20 percent max) in fact many pay no tax at all! Easy to research.
 
What do you expect the president to do? Fly around in a Piper Cub?
 
RudyP said:
I think that the costs are pretty astronomical regardless of who happens to be sitting in the POTUS office at any given point. And my main grievance is the lack of transparency on these costs to the average Joe voter who has no clue that it costs multiple times their entire family’s lifetime earnings for the President to take one trip. I just wish people knew that and they don’t (as evidenced by the OP’s surprise at the vastly understated $200K /hour figure – and he’s a pilot!) Again, this point is agnostic to who happens to be in office – and I do realize that this is largely outside of the control of the President, being a secret service requirement to travel on AF1 with all the security stuff.

My secondary grievance which I have not yet mentioned in this thread, is that, yes, our current President does seem a bit hypocritical when he lambasts 1%ers for flying around in a (single) private jet using THEIR money while his travel budget is probably higher than the total combined spend of the flight departments of the Fortune 25 companies using OUR money.
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Well said.
 
rolivi said:
That's easy. ZERO. AF1 always went to KDAL - Love Field, and then Marine One went to Crawford.
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No, it didn't. It went to KCNW, to the secure side of the airfield. The locals were very keen on letting us know when AF1 was on their ramp.
 
MAKG1 said:
No, it didn't. It went to KCNW, to the secure side of the airfield. The locals were very keen on letting us know when AF1 was on their ramp.
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I stand corrected. AF1 was in Waco, and then Marine One went to Crawford. None the less, AF1 never went to Crawford.

Perhaps there were occasional motorcades from the airport to the ranch, but I'd bet it was usually a helio connection.
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
I would :D
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What a nightmare that would be for any escort aircraft that were necessary.

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode....

dogfight.png
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Absurd anology. Major US company's do not pay anywhere near the maximum tax rate. With battery's of lawyers and lobbyists they manage to manipulate the tax code so that they pay a much lower rate. ( try 15-20 percent max) in fact many pay no tax at all! Easy to research.
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Absurd response. No one can manipulate the tax code the way you describe. You clearly don't know anything about this subject. A global company's effective tax rate being lower than the U.S.' absurdly high rate is almost always due to foreign profit recognition (with lower tax rates in just about every other country that our multi-national companies operate in). Please stop spouting nonsense. I actually do work for a fortune 50 company and understand our finances and tax strategy.

Besides, my point is completely unrelated to the effective tax rate. Go ahead and substitute your fictitious 15-20% number and the analogy still holds. It makes no sense to take other people's money, use it for extremely ostentatious and monstrously expensive travel and give a speech coming out of that flying armada about how the very people whose money you just took are greedy fat cats for spending whatever you've left them with on their own transportation.

Also, please learn some grammar. It's hard to read your messed up pluralization.
 
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