Air Force One operating cost

mscard88 said:
Yes was surprised to see that once. Flew to Monterrey Mexico from ATL once when some meeting of world leaders was going on. Just about 90% jumbo jets from countries all over the world. And there was the two 747s parked next to each other. A ton of security, police, Mexican Army etc all over the place.
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Wait, 28000 and 29000 were parked next to each other? That's a rare sight, usually only at ADW, and inside the hangar, at that. For security reasons, on international trips the 2nd VC-25 is usually parked on standby in a undisclosed location, usually a neighboring friendly country.
 
Brad Z said:
Wait, 28000 and 29000 were parked next to each other? That's a rare sight, usually only at ADW, and inside the hangar, at that. For security reasons, on international trips the 2nd VC-25 is usually parked on standby in a undisclosed location, usually a neighboring friendly country.
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Possibly an E-4B, but I think it'd be unusual even for that to be at the same airport.
 
Sad that we can't actually discuss this topic. Suffice it to say that Air Force One is too expensive.
 
Lindberg said:
Possibly an E-4B, but I think it'd be unusual even for that to be at the same airport.
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My guess is it was a VC-25 and a C-32 (757) or C-40 (737). Sometimes they'll bring in a smaller aircraft when one of the destinations on the president's itinerary can't handle an aircraft the size of a 747, but is otherwise too far away to transport by helicopter. The C-32 and C-40 are also commonly used to transport the vice president, first lady, secretary of state, and speaker of the house, so it's possible multiple US dignitaries were visiting, that for whatever reason could not be accommodated on a single aircraft.
 
C'mon they were both 747s. Probably around 8-10 years ago. I spent 20 years in the USAF and flew for an airline based in ATL for 24 years so I know what a 747 looks like, and an E-4. You can question all you want but they were both there. Period.
 
mscard88 said:
C'mon they were both 747s. Probably around 8-10 years ago. I spent 20 years in the USAF and flew for an airline based in ATL for 24 years so I know what a 747 looks like, and an E-4. You can question all you want but they were both there. Period.
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I believe you. Nevertheless, it's a rare sighting, at least in the post 9/11 world.
 
Jebus!

Wouldn't it be more effective to just fly him netjets with a small security team, draw a heck of a lot less attention.

Worse case, and the POTUS gets offed, just elect another one, shy of a few great but unelictable Ron Paul types, most are rather interchangeable.

I also disagree with the statement that the overpriced 747 and some random politician "are the United States of America", nope, it's just a dude and a aluminum tube, the United States is the constitution and her people.

The biggest fear of these "terrorists" is much like those monsters who lived under your bed as a child, they fear the day when we just stop "believing" in them and continue to live our lives regardless of how much they stomp their feet, not changing our lives based on their actions, not letting fear run our lives.
 
What is the marginal cost of each additional hour? Once all of the money is spent that is going to be spent for capital and infrastructure costs whether the plane(s) move(s) or not, what additional money is actually required to fly it and accompanying fleet for an hour.
 
Everskyward said:
Obviously.

I'm hoping that social and other pressures will keep people from posting contrary to the Rules of Conduct.
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I have a solution for you. @jesse let me borrow it the other day:

ban.jpg


I have also modified it with STCs for this version:

latest
 
Brad Z said:
My guess is it was a VC-25 and a C-32 (757) or C-40 (737). Sometimes they'll bring in a smaller aircraft when one of the destinations on the president's itinerary can't handle an aircraft the size of a 747, but is otherwise too far away to transport by helicopter. The C-32 and C-40 are also commonly used to transport the vice president, first lady, secretary of state, and speaker of the house, so it's possible multiple US dignitaries were visiting, that for whatever reason could not be accommodated on a single aircraft.
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The 737 and 757 are also used a lot during election season due to the lower election cost. Having worked them I know for a fact that Obama used the 757 numerous times to DSM in 2012.
 
RudyP said:
Actually, its about an order of magnitude low.

That's just for the 747 operating expenses but does not include the multiple cargo aircraft that fly ahead of AF1 to bring the presidential limo, 100+ secret service agents, specialized safety/fire equipment, helicopters, etc... I would bet that the average domestic fundraising trip that his highness takes costs the taxpayer multiple millions of $$$.
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I was more than a little surprised to hear what/who was involved when your highness Mr Obama visited London for a 3 day G7 meeting recently

The operation listed....
500 personnel including secret service teams (not sure how they got across the pond)
AF1
The presidential Helecoptor
2x The Beasts
30 additional vehicles for convoys including the "decoy" convoys....
4 speech writers
12 x Teleprompers ...eh ?
Team of Chefs and assistants
Food for duration of trip
2 x Doctors

There was some other stuff on the list but I can't recall the details.

The audit for that little 3 day trip would make interesting reading ...
 
Scrabo said:
The sarcastic comment about the current president was a bit of a give away. Like him/her or not, at least respect the office, no matter who holds it.
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I see this phrase quite a bit. Why respect the Office ever? I respect people, not offices, unless the office is my boss' and they can fire me, then maybe, but I'll probably just quit if forced to respect bad behavior. And have. Don't need that crap.

Scrabo said:
".. People won't remember the money but they will remember him standing next to the President."

So true. That photo of them standing with a president is priceless to them and their social circle.

schmoozing at its finest.
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Always what I've wanted, to have the legacy of being an ass-kisser. LOL.

Who cares what it costs? You're going to pay for it no matter which equal Citizen to you is on board. Heck, you won't even be paying for it, really. You'll just be paying the interest on the loans to operate it.

$20,000,000,000,000,000 in the hole and counting. Did I miss any zeros? It's such a big number I forget how large the exponent is.
 
They all, Reb or Dem, use AF1 when in office. There's a bunch of classified communication gear on those planes for a reason. Remember the flack Bush got for not going back to DC immediately? What they did was SOP for situations such as that, 9/11. Gear on the plane allows the President and his staff to 'stay in touch' with whomever the Pres needs to.
 
mscard88 said:
They all, Reb or Dem, use AF1 when in office. There's a bunch of classified communication gear on those planes for a reason. Remember the flack Bush got for not going back to DC immediately? What they did was SOP for situations such as that, 9/11. Gear on the plane allows the President and his staff to 'stay in touch' with whomever the Pres needs to.
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Must... Resist... Jokes... About... Email... Servers...
 
bmoeller said:
It's a little too late for you to send in your proposals since they already awarded Boeing with the contract for the nextGen AF1....but you can read the Gov's original request for proposals. They started out requesting 3 aircraft, but as of recent, they pulled it back to 2.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...59abc36437e8e7665d42bdac9b2&tab=core&_cview=0
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I seriously doubt that it truly is more cost effective to buy a new airplane for AF1, but I don't have a problem with them buying a new plane after 30 years anyway. I just have a problem with:

1) It being a 747 (fly in a Gulfstream like a normal rich person)
2) All the other support
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I seriously doubt that it truly is more cost effective to buy a new airplane for AF1, but I don't have a problem with them buying a new plane after 30 years anyway. I just have a problem with:

1) It being a 747 (fly in a Gulfstream like a normal rich person)
2) All the other support
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The president is more important than you are and thus, deserves more protection.

Was there sarcasm or jest in that last sentence I just typed? :confused:
 
vkhosid said:
The president is more important than you are and thus, deserves more protection.

Was there sarcasm or jest in that last sentence I just typed? :confused:
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Declaration of Independence said:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.
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Our leaders have forgotten this...
 
Just to stray back to the original topic, I was recently at a series of briefings (modeling, simulation and training contracts) and heard a Navy officer cite F/A-18 operating costs as "$26,000/hour" and an Air Force officer cite C-17 operating costs as "$26,000/hour". I find it odd that both cost the same. (I am frankly suspicious that they both read or heard the number and used it.)

Based on these two data points, I guess AF-1 costs $26,000/hour. ;)

John
 
mscard88 said:
Yes was surprised to see that once. Flew to Monterrey Mexico from ATL once when some meeting of world leaders was going on. Just about 90% jumbo jets from countries all over the world. And there was the two 747s parked next to each other. A ton of security, police, Mexican Army etc all over the place.
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Technically, they are 'VC-25' (2 of them) and become AF1 when the President steps on them. As we saw on 9/11, having that kind of protection and resources is important during times of crisis, and it is good that the President has them at their disposal.

However, I'm kind of 'old school', and don't think that we need to have the President in every tragedy that happens within the US. Let the locals handle it, as they are best served by the leaders accountable to them.
 
mscard88 said:
They all, Reb or Dem, use AF1 when in office. There's a bunch of classified communication gear on those planes for a reason. Remember the flack Bush got for not going back to DC immediately? What they did was SOP for situations such as that, 9/11. Gear on the plane allows the President and his staff to 'stay in touch' with whomever the Pres needs to.
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The same gear and more is available on the 737s (BBJs) that the branch chiefs and theater commanders use for travel.
 
jsstevens said:
Just to stray back to the original topic, I was recently at a series of briefings (modeling, simulation and training contracts) and heard a Navy officer cite F/A-18 operating costs as "$26,000/hour" and an Air Force officer cite C-17 operating costs as "$26,000/hour". I find it odd that both cost the same. (I am frankly suspicious that they both read or heard the number and used it.)

Based on these two data points, I guess AF-1 costs $26,000/hour. ;)

John
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This from the people that decided that a 4-engine C130J was cheaper to operate than a 2 engine C27.
 
weilke said:
The same gear and more is available on the 737s (BBJs) that the branch chiefs and theater commanders use for travel.
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Heck, the Poseidon even just got hard points. Freaking 737 that can fire missiles! Woooooooot! Haha.
 
This is just amazing to me that all of the political boards out there now people have to come to an Airplane website to talk politics.
 
I really don't care who the president is or which party he is from, they all abuse the privileges of the office. The use of AF1 and other aircraft for personal and political purposes is just one of the many abuses. The rich and famous life style that the presidency offers is why it attracts the narcissistic and megalomaniac type personalities that it does.

Getting back to aviation, in my opinion going with another 747 for the next AF1 was dumb. The 787 would have been a better choice.
 
I still vote just go with a netjets membership. :)
 
SkyDog58 said:
Getting back to aviation, in my opinion going with another 747 for the next AF1 was dumb. The 787 would have been a better choice.
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Or a gaggle of C40s and have the press fly a charter.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Getting back to aviation, in my opinion going with another 747 for the next AF1 was dumb. The 787 would have been a better choice.
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Gov't has to keep up with the Jones! A lot of country's heads of state fly around in jumbo jets.
 
mscard88 said:
Gov't has to keep up with the Jones! A lot of country's heads of state fly around in jumbo jets.
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Just because your neighbors are stupid doesn't mean you need to be stupid, too.
 
mscard88 said:
Gov't has to keep up with the Jones! A lot of country's heads of state fly around in jumbo jets.
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I bet the president of Greece flys around in a really nice jumbo.
 
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