A project.

I do not believe that going to Wenachee with hopes of flying this home would be a good plan. I'd take my mechanic and a tool box when they say they'll ride home with ya. go for it.
 
Best plan, is for a CFI to buy it as a tail wheel trainer, insure it for 100k. You know it will get bent in the first year. collect the check, and go buy a the aircraft you really want.
 
Tom-D said:
I do not believe that going to Wenachee with hopes of flying this home would be a good plan. I'd take my mechanic and a tool box when they say they'll ride home with ya. go for it.
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It is going to be kind of an "interesting" sale, if the seller's representative really thinks he is going to get bids UNTIL May, or THROUGH May (not clear on the advertisements).

Unless multiple people are going to bring mechanics to come look at the plane, he is not likely to get many bids over the $39k. And, as a Buyer, I would not be hauling my mechanic to Wenatchee to do an inspection on an airplane that I may be getting out bid by 10 other people.

I might invest MY time in taking a look at it, but wouldn't be investing a mechanic until I had a tenative agreement.

How long does it take to remove wings from a 180 and load it all on a trailer?
 
Tom-D said:
No one knows there is any. every one is guessing and tire kicking looking for some thing wrong -- like always.
Wenatchee is a very dry place.
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Is it a factory seaplane? If it is that means it's got some serious anti corrosion measures implemented when it was built at the factory.

I don't really see the trouble with his plane, it's not going to attract the used car mindset 172/PA28/SR22 buyers, but those folks don't have skywagons on their radar in the first place.

The only thing for me would be the bidding thing, unless we're talking a real no reserve live auction, I think that would turn away some quality buyers.


Tom-D said:
Best plan, is for a CFI to buy it as a tail wheel trainer, insure it for 100k. You know it will get bent in the first year. collect the check, and go buy a the aircraft you really want.
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Minus what you'd pay in insurance and deductibles, and that's if the insurance CO would even write a policy for it, I'd imagine you'd need to be a real tailwheel CFI, as in not just someone with some endorsement and a CFI, I'd suspect they would want well over 100hrs of tailwheel time, and no solo ops for students. So if it gets bent it's with you in it, al la a 709 ride, now not only does the 180 get dented, so does your PRIA.

If it were me, and I were a AP, I'd talk the owner up and if I thought there was a good chance, show up with cash money a flatbed, borescope and tools and a afternoon and haul it home if she looked good. Fix her up, flip it and make a few bucks, or keep it.
 
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JoseCuervo said:
How long does it take to remove wings from a 180 and load it all on a trailer?
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You are not going to do it alone for sure.
It took me 2 days to prep the 170 to trailer it. lots of stuff to do prior to lifting the wings down.
Drain gas
Remove fairings
remove bolts & replace with pins
disconnect cables
disconnect wires
disconnect fuel hoses.

In most cases where the aircraft is salvageable as a project. it is easier to make it safe to fly, get a ferry permit and fly it out.
 
JoseCuervo said:
It is going to be kind of an "interesting" sale, if the seller's representative really thinks he is going to get bids UNTIL May, or THROUGH May (not clear on the advertisements).

That's a personal opinion

Unless multiple people are going to bring mechanics to come look at the plane, he is not likely to get many bids over the $39k. And, as a Buyer, I would not be hauling my mechanic to Wenatchee to do an inspection on an airplane that I may be getting out bid by 10 other people.
Where did you see there are others looking at this aircraft?

I might invest MY time in taking a look at it, but wouldn't be investing a mechanic until I had a tenative agreement.

There again, that's you.

How long does it take to remove wings from a 180 and load it all on a trailer?
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Answered that already. :)
 
James331 said:
Is it a factory seaplane? If it is that means it's got some serious anti corrosion measures implemented when it was built at the factory.

Did the Ad say it was? or are you fantasizing?

If it were me, and I were a AP, I'd talk the owner up and if I thought there was a good chance, show up with cash money a flatbed, borescope and tools and a afternoon and haul it home if she looked good. Fix her up, flip it and make a few bucks, or keep it.
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If you want me to do that for you call. or PM I'm sure we are up to another road trip. :)
Remember I work cheap, but I'm slow. :)
 
Didn't say it was, but don't know if the seller knows much anyways.

That said, the pics arnt that great, but I can't see any float fittings or lift rings
 
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Tom-D said:
Answered that already. :)
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My comments were about the "structure" of the sale, where the guy seemed to be wanting to take "bids" on the plane.

When I buy stuff by bid, I either have already inspected it, or, the item is commodity enough that I don't need to see it to know what I want to pay. This would likely be one where it needs inspected, but, for a low $$$ asset, not worth a lot of potential buyer's investing actual $$$ in performing multiple "look-sees".

This "bids until May" offering could be any number of diffrerent scenarios. Some of which would be agreeable terms, other scenarios would be less agreeable.


This really sounds like an inefficient type of sale, which, when transactions have inefficiencies, many times somebody can get a bargain. My bet is that A/P from within 150 miles ends up buying it, and gets a great bargain.
 
If you're an A&P with some time on your hands this could be lovely. I wouldn't touch it, and I don't care what prime examples go for, this isn't one of them. In the book of Steingar an airplane out of annual is scrap and not worth one penny more.
 
JoseCuervo said:
How long does it take to remove wings from a 180 and load it all on a trailer?
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Need to take the tail off, too. The stab is wider than many, maybe most, maybe all, places allow for trailering. And taking the stab off means taking ALL the tailfeathers off.
 
steingar said:
If you're an A&P with some time on your hands this could be lovely. I wouldn't touch it, and I don't care what prime examples go for, this isn't one of them. In the book of Steingar an airplane out of annual is scrap and not worth one penny more.
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It isn't priced as one either.
many in annual are scrap. simply remember the paper work is the easy part.
 
Tom-D said:
Great example of tire kicker thinking.
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Baloney. An airplane that isn't airworthy is nothing more than a pile of aluminum. Put another way, if it was such a good deal Tom you'd have up and bought it already.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Out of annual just means better deal for some.
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Yeah... like who cares, you are not getting an annual as a part of the pre-buy :) EVERY one here knows that is the only thing that needs to be done to get a great aircraft. LMAO
 
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steingar said:
Baloney. An airplane that isn't airworthy is nothing more than a pile of aluminum. Put another way, if it was such a good deal Tom you'd have up and bought it already.
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I wish, I simply don't have room for it. or the budget. For any A&P or any one working under the supervision there is 50 grand to be made there. Simple fact is I'm beyond the need for a 180, and the work that will be required to restore one. Nor do I have the big hangar to work it.
 
steingar said:
Baloney. An airplane that isn't airworthy is nothing more than a pile of aluminum. Put another way, if it was such a good deal Tom you'd have up and bought it already.
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Sounds like some one searching for a reason not to buy.

And who by the way, says it isn't airworthy?
 
steingar said:
...In the book of Steingar an airplane out of annual is scrap and not worth one penny more.
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In my book the words "fresh annual" in a sale description are even less meaningful.

An airplane does not go from airworthy to scrap overnight just because the annual has come due.
 
GRG55 said:
In my book the words "fresh annual" in a sale description are even less meaningful.

An airplane does not go from airworthy to scrap overnight just because the annual has come due.
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Your the type of buyer that should only buy new.
 
Does it matter? Either way, the buyer is going to tear into it. A lot happens in 7 years of sitting.
Cool plane. Good deal for someone with skills to work on it. If I did, I'd go look at it.
 
UngaWunga said:
Does it matter? Either way, the buyer is going to tear into it. A lot happens in 7 years of sitting.
Cool plane. Good deal for someone with skills to work on it. If I did, I'd go look at it.
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A lot happens in 56 years of annuals, too. Or stuff that should happen doesn't happen. Got a '53 180 here right now that has the usual damaged/worn tail stuff, and it's been through all the "annuals" and everything. One has to know where to look and what to look for. If this stuff isn't caught early, the damage progresses to the point that replacement is necessary instead of repair.

An annual is no guarantee of airworthiness. I once found, in a "just-annualled" 172 I had just ferried home for a buyer, that the stabilizer front spar was broken clean through in the center, the lower wing strut bolts had no nuts on them, numerous unapproved repairs, and so on. 138 snags, many of them manifestly dangerous. The buyer had to bring a trailer and haul it away in pieces.
 
Hey Caramon, to the right person that airplane is just what they want. It isn't for you. We get that. But to say it isn't a good deal is just your opinion. We know what your opinion is. Time to let it go.
 
Without log books, that prop is garbage. You can't prove total time in service on those Macs, they're officially unairworthy by AD.
 
flyingron said:
Without log books, that prop is garbage. You can't prove total time in service on those Macs, they're officially unairworthy by AD.
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It can be overhauled, and a new record started.
 
Tom-D said:
It can be overhauled, and a new record started.
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No it can not. It's not TIME SINCE OVERHAUL in that AD. It is TOTAL TIME IS SERVICE. There's no way to zero that number.
 
flyingron said:
No it can not. It's not TIME SINCE OVERHAUL in that AD. It is TOTAL TIME IS SERVICE. There's no way to zero that number.
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show the AD

and

OBTW how do you know what prop is installed. ??
And if you decided to up grade the engine, you'd throw that prop away anyway.
 
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2007-08-04 And it's just an educated guess. The decals on the prop in the picture are definitely Mac decals rather than Hartzell.
 
Sent an email. Son is selling it for his 92 yo father. Ask a few other questions, no answer on them.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Now on trade-a-plane:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search...&model=180&listing_id=2178045&s-type=aircraft
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One of the Mooneys I called about (also out of annual) was on Trade a Plane. Hadn't flown in two years. Had a bad annual ($15K in squawks) and the owner just wanted to unload it. Smelled to me and I passed, I heard about someone who bit. Nearly fainted off the wing from the fuel vapors in the cockpit. Lots of things in Trade a Plane. Lots of hangar queen Mooneys, by the way. I'll never know why so many Mooneys, but about half that I saw fit the description well, a bunch were out of annual and weren't likely to be airworthy any time soon. Heck, the one I bought only flew ten hours a year for half a decade.

I do hope someone knowledgable buys that thing and makes it into what it should be. Airplanes belong in the sky, not in hangars and storage sheds.
 
flyingron said:
2007-08-04 And it's just an educated guess. The decals on the prop in the picture are definitely Mac decals rather than Hartzell.
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This may be a problem, If the props mentioned in this AD are installed, the prop is the wrong one for the 0-470
 
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