A CFI yelled at me

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
16,169
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Display Name
Display name:
Luvflyin
Nah, he didn't yell and I'm not butt hurt or anything. Here's the situation. I'm following him to a 3200' runway. He's turning off at the end and clears the edge as I'm crossing the threshold. Later, in the office he wants to talk about it, saying I was wrong, you cant land on a runway until the airplane ahead is off and past the holding lines. He's saying it like I have violated some rule. I say ok, duly noted, and drop it. Now for the question. Is there anything in the AIM, FAR, AC etc that says this? I can't find it. I know all about Tower rules about clearing the runway and getting across the hold lines and what the Tower can and can't do and all that stuff. But where in publications about Non Towered Airport Operations is there something that says never land if there is an airplane still on the runway no matter how far down it is or what it's doing?
 
The regulations do not set a specific distance that pilots must maintain from each other on a runway.

However there is 91.111 and 91.13 to deal with.

Personally I like 300 feet apart unless I know the other pilot.

Tower controllers have specific distances on their runways that they have to follow. Hopefully one will chime in on this.
 
Nope. Nothing regulatory about having a clear deck at a non towered field. Obviously not required at a towered field either.
 
If that was required then they need to cancel Oshkosh! I have a picture of me on short final, a plane over the numbers, and one rolling out ahead of that, at WPAFB.
 
Nope... nothing to worry about

plane_crash404_671675c.jpg


Warrior-Stinson-landing-0508b.jpg
 
if in fact he was turning off before ur wheels hit, he just needs to chill, especially if u were making all ur radio calls and he knew the whole time where u were.
 
Zeldman said:
The regulations do not set a specific distance that pilots must maintain from each other on a runway.

However there is 91.111 and 91.13 to deal with.

Personally I like 300 feet apart unless I know the other pilot.

Tower controllers have specific distances on their runways that they have to follow. Hopefully one will chime in on this.
Click to expand...

300'! Damn, you play it tight!
 
There are moron CFI's too. I was downwind Saturday when an instrument student was shooting a VOR approach to full stop. Instead of the just landing straight in, or going around upwind like any normal person, the CFII announces at 2 miles he's going to take a right turn to exit the approach to enter the base leg for a right traffic pattern. (My home field, so I know his voice) IOW, he's going to turn into base traffic so he can then make a 180 to enter base. This with two other aircraft in the pattern. WTF!
 
JOhnH said:
I think CFIs do that all the time with their students. Then those students go through live believing them because "the CFI told me so".
Click to expand...
They don't make them up. They're simply repeating what their CFIs had told them without every providing a reference or looking it up. And their CFIs are simply repeating what their CFIs told their CFIs, etc., etc.

Tribal knowledge.

CFIs, teach your students the sources of what you are teaching so that they can look it up themselves later on when they don't know or remember an answer.
 
Larry in TN said:
They don't make them up. They're simply repeating what their CFIs had told them without every providing a reference or looking it up. And their CFIs are simply repeating what their CFIs told their CFIs, etc., etc.

Tribal knowledge.

CFIs, teach your students the sources of what you are teaching so that they can look it up themselves later on when they don't know or remember an answer.
Click to expand...

Amen!

I work with a lot of CFI candidates who have a good knowledge base but often don't know where the requirements come from. I always try to correlate whatever we're talking about to the associated regulation. Hopefully it makes them more well rounded and can transfer that knowledge to their students as well.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Greg is right. 3000' for a towered airport.
Click to expand...

For all sized aircraft.??

I was worried about landing a Navajo about 1000 feet behind a caravan, thinking I might be told to go around, but the controller said for our size he can allow us to be closer. And this was several years ago.
 
For aircraft under 12,500 lbs, yes. If the succeeding aircraft is over 12500 lbs its 4500' but if the runway is only 3200' then that ship has sailed.
 
eman1200 said:
if in fact he was turning off before ur wheels hit, he just needs to chill, especially if u were making all ur radio calls and he knew the whole time where u were.
Click to expand...

Oh, he did. We had already been chatting about how was making a base entry (it was just fine and appropriate) and about how I saw him and would follow. When I made my base call he said he was on short final. I said I see you.
 
luvflyin said:
I'm following him to a 3200' runway. He's turning off at the end and clears the edge as I'm crossing the threshold.
Click to expand...
luvflyin said:
We was using 8. Full length available
Click to expand...
If you kept going at 65 knots all the way :confused: it would take you 29 seconds to get from the threshold to the far end. Can't say as I see a problem there.
 
Had a guy a few months ago turn it in tight right behind me while on short final, land behind me and exited the runway before I was able to make the turnoff. I'm not sure if it should have upset me, but it upset me. There were a number of other items that made it upsetting I think, however. For one, I knew he was in the pattern somewhere but getting him to position report was like pulling teeth all I got was the original callup. I also expected that we would be very close to both being on final at the same time (which turned out to be true), but did not have visual on him, so I had offered to let him in first so he could do his thing, and all I got was crickets. Maybe he was too busy listening to Flight of the Valkyries to make position calls.
 
Last edited:
I would have said if I wanted training from you I would hire you but since your knowledge is lacking I wouldn't sit by the phone waiting for my call. :)
 
luvflyin said:
Later, in the office he wants to talk about it, saying I was wrong, you cant land on a runway until the airplane ahead is off and past the holding lines. He's saying it like I have violated some rule.
Click to expand...
"Thank you pointing that out for me. While we're on the subject, I'd really like to dig deeper into this on my own. Can you tell me what regulation number I should reference to learn more about that other planes must be clear of the runway before you land thing? No? Don't know the reg number off the top of your head you say? Well ok, why don't you look it up for me real quick? I'll wait. Because like I said, I'd love to know more. Oh don't have time right now you say? So let me get this straight, you managed to find plenty of time in your busy schedule to make your opinion of my land procedures known to me in no uncertain terms. But now that I'd like to you clarify and back up your claim with oh, I dunno, an actual regulation number, suddenly your dance card is all full up. Hmmm..... How convenient."

You gotta call them on their BS or they just keep doing it.

I used to know a CFI who was great guy and great stick and rudder pilot. But he had this personality flaw where it was an absolute must for him to find a way to make you feel stupid or less of pilot than him in some way before the lesson was over. More than once I listened to him just make stuff up if he couldn't find anything else to call a student out on. I have zero patience for that.
 
I had a CFI say not ready to solo since the plane was partially cleaned up (flaps raised) after turning off runway, but not clear of the double solid lines. Try again tomorrow. Then the phase check CFI was upset because the flaps weren't raised while turning off the runway.

Sometimes you just have to humor them and move on.
 
I like folks to be completely off the runway, ya never know, I’ve seen people 180 and start to back taxi and all sorts of other stuff
 
So I take it that no one can recall something in print that says don’t ever land if there is another plane on the runway, period.
 
James331 said:
I like folks to be completely off the runway, ya never know, I’ve seen people 180 and start to back taxi and all sorts of other stuff
Click to expand...
Yeah there is that. This guy was clearly turning off the runway and clear of the edge though.
 
Timbeck2 said:
For aircraft under 12,500 lbs, yes. If the succeeding aircraft is over 12500 lbs its 4500' but if the runway is only 3200' then that ship has sailed.
Click to expand...

There is the Twins are Category II thing. 4500 feet needed. What’s that Twin that looks like a Canoe with a couple lawnmower engines on it? Flys around 30 knots and can land in couple hundred feet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top